Pilot Archive
Thread: Focus: PVP Decay
I kinda think the server you play on has a big impact on people's opinion in this matter too.
While we on Starsider (yes more shameless advertising 
) have space battles regularly and like to change objectives and space sectors the favour goes for no PvP decay. Deep Space in my eyes is actually not a good zone for PvP. No obastacles like asteroid fields, lots of lag (especially after patch) and various aggressive NPCs who at least distract some pilots. Furthermore non master pilots should be able to take part in PvP too which makes DS impossible for most space battles.
I personally am flying to DS after each time i was blown up in PvP but it is still a huge interuption as I can't invite people to my group and help coordinate the next wave. I did not die in PvE for a long time... but i am not exactly hunting NPCs often 
Less active servers have way more trouble here. Shipwrights barely make any money but I think this is due to the low pilot population on these servers. But the question is here will less space PvP decay hurt? If there is not many pilots around there aren't many to fight space battles either. And PvP decay will definately not bring more people to play JTL.
This works for all servers. Crafters without customers will not sell anything. Crafters with customers will sell their goods if they are useful. So the question is basically: How do you improve the usefulness of the goods of a crafter profession without putting obstacles in the way of the customer?
The question whether PvP decay is necessary can be easily answered with a no. However, We pilots depend on shipwrights whether they have high income or not. Sooner or later you need a new ship or a new reactor. Now we should definately support the shipwright community in their quest for competative crafted components and other useful perks. But we should not cripple our own profession as our shipwrights are dependant on us just as we are dependant on them. An active space community will help shipwrights more than the tiny cost of a small amount of pilots who grumblingly (is that a word? ) payfor a new component thatTom Griefer blew up.
Kitten
I want to see (more) space battles like that. I also want to see PvP stop being the refuge for Pilots who refuse to risk their best (and anomaly) gear. It's gear, it's meant to get used and get used up.
I don't have a great solution that will do both at once.
Shona
SheenaBrelya wrote:
You're right. That's a very good reason to not have PvP decay. If not in general than at least in a specified area (Deep Space). I have a very hard time reconciling that kind of motivation to not PvP because of decay with my belief that decay is necessary.
I want to see (more) space battles like that. I also want to see PvP stop being the refuge for Pilots who refuse to risk their best (and anomaly) gear. It's gear, it's meant to get used and get used up.
I don't have a great solution that will do both at once.
Shona
Shona you are so right. It is gear thatshould be used and abused. /agree 100%
This is starting to get old. I hate to say this but....no decay for PVP in space is for sissies and nancy boy pilots. We've got a no decay PVP zone already. If that's too tough or not enough for you then you need to stay on the ground and work on your PVP rating, play a different flight sim, or become a better pilot so you don't get shot down, thus reducing your decay.
I fly overt all the time. I launch, I run my overloads, I go to the Imp space station and go overt, I begin my patrol. And you better believe that if I am out on patrol I am running my BEST gear. That includes my pre-nerf reward engine with EO4. I know that if I get shot down my engine is going to take a huge hit. All that knowledge does is keep me on my toes, thus making me a better, more alert pilot. And that is exactly what you want in space PVP. If you are flying around in yor ship that can't get decay it will make you sloppy and less alert. "So what if I get shot down? Big deal." So then we get more people in space like every one wants, but they are going to get eaten alive by the good pilots and will land never to return.
What we want in space is quality not quantity. The quantity would be nice but I'd rather have 10 good pilots than 100 sloppy pilots. We train our pilots this way. We train them to be overt from Novice to Ace. We train them to know the risks and embrace them which makes the game more fun.
Space PVP is not, and will not be a kind and gentle place. It will not, can not, be ballanced and for everybody. You adapt and become a better pilot or you land and don't come back. There is no excuse for complaints about decay or "one shot" kills. Learn to fly. Get better. But you have to WANT to get better. Space PVP isn't for the weak or the casual pilot. Get used to it people.
Who is we?
Frankly i find shooting at the same small group of ppl everytime i go overt boring. Small fights are boring. 1 on 1 is boring. This 6 vs 6 mentality some ppl have is boring.
I want BATTLES, i want to feel like im fighting in a war, and am flying in the middle of a war zone. Quality is for snobs who can't have their ego brused by someone getting lucky shot on them in a mass melee.
For PvP, I'll take quanity for 100 Alex.
Ducimus wrote:
>>What we want in space is quality not quantity. The quantity would be nice but I'd rather have 10 good pilots than 100 sloppy pilots
Who is we?
Frankly i find shooting at the same small group of ppl everytime i go overt boring. Small fights are boring. 1 on 1 is boring. This 6 vs 6 mentality some ppl have is boring.
I want BATTLES, i want to feel like im fighting in a war, and am flying in the middle of a war zone. Quality is for snobs who can't have their ego brused by someone getting lucky shot on them in a mass melee.
For PvP, I'll take quanity for 100 Alex.
I've been in mass battles. 50+ players in fighters, 10-15+ POB ships all going at it. It's fun for about 2-3 minutes. By the time you've blasted the rookie pilots and/or the "shotgun Aces" (these are the pilots who got all of their XP in the back of a MP ship and never learned how to fly) you're down to maybe 5 good pilots.
If you want epic battles and grand dogfights there is only one way to do it: Produce Good Pilots. Don't just strap a rookie into the back of your MP ship or disable targets for them. make them fly. Make them get the stick time. Make that pilot earn the Ace title. Then you will have your quantity, I will have my quality, and the pilot community as a whole will be better off.
BTW: No pilot wants to get killed by a lucky shot. But it happens. We deal with it, get repairs, then go back and show that other pilot the difference between luck and skill. Good pilots are 50% skill and 50% ego. It's the ego that overrides your brain when it says "Are you nuts?! EO4 on your pre-nerf engine, overt in Kessel?!! That's stupid!!!" And it's the skill that proves your brain wrong.
That kind of goes without saying. Its really a no brainer.
What im failing to grasp here, is how this tangent we're on is related to decay.
In a mass battle, i expect to die... alot. If my ship is entirely trashed in one hours gameplay, i simply won't play in mass battles anymore. Many would do the same. Its too expensive.
Lack of battles is not good for the game.
Space PvP shouldn't have to be, thought of, or considered, an elitist sport. Ya some will simply be inept and uable to deal with it, but particpiting in it shouldnt be discouraged.
DS is the worst zone for PvP in the entire game. And decay wont make any pilot more alert or better. Someone who goes into PvP is expected to be alert but every pilot can have a bad day. Decay does not produce good pilots but training does.
So without the few people on Starsider who are devoted to bring up the rebels and imperials every week end we would not be any better than the other servers. JTL would be dead as on most of the other servers as those pilots who enjoy JTL would become bored of grinding parts and stay on the ground.
About most Ace pilots not complaining about being shot down. Absolutely... yet maybe you could ask Naithan or Adonis what they do for the next 10 minutes after being shot down. Just like me... Deep Space. And i tell you it is a pain. I reverse engineered armor now which is near impossible to replace as well since most is based on rebel and imperial quest rewards.
And it gets even worse when someone accidentally or intentionally targets your engine... or when you are epulsed and you are unlucky and it blows up your engine as well. Flying 7k to DS with 90 topspeed after vrepair is annoying. We could have way more intense battles without decay as the returning time would be cut dramatically. That would mean not 4-6 minutes fun but rather 8-12 minutes of that fun (for me the entire time i am fighting someone is fun but im using yournumbers here) per hour.
We could have way more waves and the coordination would be improved as well as i don't have to decide between inviting two pilots to the group orsaving my armor/engine/capacitor/weapon/shield.
The curent system allows griefing. Not only of single pilots but also of entire factions and thus sabotaging the entire battle. It is no fun for imperials to wait 20 minutes for the rebels to come back. It is no fun for rebels to wait 20 minutes to come back with the same ships as before.
Ships don't get better with decay as armor and components goes down. Why punish someone for going up against you and giving you a fun time so when he comes back he will have a worse ship than before?
Why do we like JTL? Because the abilities of the pilots are the main point here. You will become a better pilot if you allow them to come after you with their best ship possible. Decay however does not allow that.
Kitten
On the other hand, the twitch factor of space makes for a much different game, one where raw reaction time and honed skill can help overcome a pilot's disadvantages or further intensity his advantages. That's a fundamental that draws many pilots into space, I think, and one which should be preserved.
However, if systemic change can be brought that encourages more players to get into space, for PVE or PVP, and without diminishing the twitch element that makes JTL unique, that's a change that should be considered.
Do I then think decayless PVP would get more pilots up and overt? And if it did, would it come at the cost of other areas of the game's health, ones which wouldn't be worth the cost? I don't know, and my single opinion doesn't really matter anyway; that's why I wanted to see what everyone thought. And it's been a great discussion so far, with points on both ends I've never heard before along with some intriguing suggestions for changes and additions.
Don't really have much to add one way or the other, just wanted to provide a little insight as to why I raised the question. There are definitely other areas of space that could be expanded or changed to improve the space game--more post-master content and a direct role in the GCW perhaps chief among them--but making sure the sting of PVP death is balanced and appropriate is, I think, one of those fundamentals that needs discussion before these other areas can be fairly addressed.
I disagree. Decay is concievable one thing that keeps ppl out of space, but it's not the ONLY thing. Nor is it the idea of getting shot down by another player.
Ive found from talking with various people, that they dont go up, becaus their's no point in it. Ive stopped going overt for the very same reason. Ohh yeah, good kill death ratio i might have *golf clap*, so what did i accomplish?
I accomplished nothing. Nothing i did effected the GCW. Why bother?
Ducimus wrote:
Ive found from talking with various people, that they dont go up, becaus their's no point in it. Ive stopped going overt for the very same reason. Ohh yeah, good kill death ratio i might have *golf clap*, so what did i accomplish?
I accomplished nothing. Nothing i did effected the GCW. Why bother?
That can be said for nearly any aspect of the game save a few. Ground and space included. Why bother to PVP on the ground? Sure you may improve your rating but what is accomplished? With the GCW...why bother killing a base? You kill one and 3 more will sprout up in it's place so why bother? What good does the GCW do anyway? It's not at all "Star Warsy". Rebel banners flying proudly in Theed in this time period? Bah.
For me I go to space because I enjoy it and have fun. I go overt because I enjoy the rush that the risk brings. It is also a great source of money and FP to continue to fund our "pointless" GCW campagins.
So if there was little to no decay, less damage in PVP, would that really entice those "why bother/what's the point" people to fly? Making space a safer place to be still wouldn't give it any more of a point then it has now. No matter how safe, no matter how much content you add, JTL will still only be a nitch game. It just doesn't have the mass appeal that the ground game does. I love JTL. It's the only thing that keeps me in the game, but I know that we will never see hundreds of people in space like we do on the ground. At least not unless there were some major rewards.
If JTL counted in the GCW we might see more people. But then again, there are dedicated pilots and dedicated ground pounders. The ground forces would probably not engage in space combat because there are already skilled pilots to do so. Many people are very happy to stay out of space and let us do what we do. The only thing that I think would get more people into space would be if something up there counted toward your Jedi. If prestiege could be converted or if you got force points for kills..then we would see space boom. Saddly I think that is the only way to get the kind of pilot turn out I think we all want. Even with all of the wonderful new content from the Expansion we will only see a small spike in space population and then it will only be people doing the missions they need to do in order to get an item or a badge and then move on. After that...space will be back to normal.