Pilot Archive
Thread: JTL Ship Balance Discussion
You mean we have to pick ONE?! Can't i just point my finger at all of em?
Alarien wrote:
Pre-ROTW ships are underpowered crap. They all need to be reevaluated. All of them.
No offense but these words strike me as coming from someone who just coudlnt "get it" in JTL until some high mass ship was dropped in his lap to make the game easier.
Ducimus wrote:
>>
Alarien wrote:
Pre-ROTW ships are underpowered crap. They all need to be reevaluated. All of them.
No offense but these words strike me as coming from someone who just coudlnt "get it" in JTL until some high mass ship was dropped in his lap to make the game easier.
I hear you here.
I still use my Y-Wing "Longprobe" from time to time. It's a great ship with its mass, weapon loadout and is an interesting ship to fly with its "sloppy" stick feel.
I have no problem flying any of the pre-RotW ships, except the Old Z-95 and the Standard X-Wing, everything else, even the Two-Seat Y-Wing is still a viable option in my stable. If I had to, I would make due with my old X-Wing.
No... now you draw the fire as the freelancers form a lynch'n party.
this is our only true dogfighter, and perhaps the only truly balanced ship in the game. This ship was obviously was meant for PvP as a heavy fighter that can still compete with the JSF/awing. It has all that mass to deal with its disadvantages. Big hitbox... more mass means better shields and engine, only one gun slot... mass allows you to mount a good one, weapon spread you just have to get used to. the point is is that the vaksai is acompetitive shipin an area that freelancers have been missing out on until RotW.
Go. Now. I even worked out the numbers for you - Heavy-X pilots with triple L8s should ESPECIALLY take notice, I patterned my example after you.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-19-2005 05:03 PM
IF i had my way:
- THe JSF/B22/vakasi(sp) would be 70K mass with the handling of a Kihraxz
- The Heavy starters would be 50K mass w/ same handling as now.
- The Heavy Xwing would be 120K mass
- The RGI would be 65-70K mass with 2 gunmounts with same handling of a T/I or that of a Kihraxz
Better then Pre ROTW, but more inbalance with the rest of the game.
Pace,
I could notagree with you more, on all points. I also hope it does not get nerfed, as I am also freelance...and I did say it was given that large mass to make a viable dogfighter in spite of its drawbacks.
While I agree with your sentiments Ducimus...please be nice 
I have also not seen much mention in this thread about the Heavy Z/Tie/Scyk...those ships are quite nice as well. I did not like them at first, because I believed (like most), that they allowed new pilots to cheese the pilot progression...but then I realized something: they were not put in to make progression easier, they were put in to make those ship stylesviable at all levels of combat, which was not the case previously. As it stands now, someone who is in love with the Z95 can use it for pretty much any engagement if they choose. However, SOE screwed the pooch by not making them tier 3 certs at least...maybe even tier 4. I also think that if the ROTW ships were all Master level only, a lot of the fire would die down about these *overpowered* ships, since new pilots would still have to *earn* their master badge before getting to play with the uber toys...or even farther, make them 1 million pilot prestige awards...
Domingo
Ducimus wrote:
Just posted this in the RGI thread, but since its applicable here, ill repost it here:
IF i had my way:
- THe JSF/B22/vakasi(sp) would be 70K mass with the handling of a Kihraxz
- The Heavy starters would be 50K mass w/ same handling as now.
- The Heavy Xwing would be 120K mass
- The RGI would be 65-70K mass with 2 gunmounts with same handling of a T/I or that of a Kihraxz
Better then Pre ROTW, but more inbalance with the rest of the game.
that would make the vaksai completely useless in PvP. I might as well fly my krayt in to the furball. The vaksai has too big of hitbox to be put in the same category as the jsf or even the Bel-22.
KaylBreinhar wrote:
You are aware that with twin L7s the way *I* craft them that even a 70k RGI would have idiots on here whining for more nerfs, right Rapax?
Hmm somethng like a MK IV quickfire w/ points used in damage on final assembly? I got some nice .310 refires at some reasonable damage doing that. Of course if you got a better, do tell
Although i prefer duel REd boltdrivers. Got those in my T/A. But your right, ppl would still whine. I get remarks in game over my T/A when im outflying outkilling ppl in JSF's. All pre ROTW ships are underpowered?! Suuuuureeee... And i got ocean front property in arizona too.I can only Imagine what i could do with a JSF if i were to sink that low....
Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-19-2005 02:19 PM
All I'll say is this - getting these ships nerfed isn't going to make any of the people crying because of defeats better pilots. I can at least respect the ones who have valid concerns...and those who are trying to hide behind them for the former reason.
But even you have to agree, there's a SMIDGEN of vindictiveness here.
I mean, and this is a rough translation:
"NERF THE JSF/Bel-22!!! REDUCE THEIR MASS! BUT...uhm...KINDA NERF THE ADV X-WING TOO SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE'RE JUST TRYING TO SCREW THE OTHER SIDE LIKE WE DID WITH THE AT-ST THREE TIMES RUNNING...WE'LL SETTLE FOR A SLIGHT REDUCTION IN MASS...BUT NO YPR CHANGES!!!"
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-19-2005 07:34 PM
Hmmm your probably right. Probably a bleed over from forums like the GCW forum where both sides whine, trying to get the other nerfed.
Im a pilot, first and foremost. JTL is WHY i subscribe to SWG at all. Ive done and flown them all, serveral times over. While i finally settled down into imp pilot, I have no factional biases where JTL is concerned. It would be most hipcritical of me if i did. But i do have a beef with the ROTW additions to JTL. Not just the JSF, but every stinking one of them except maybe the Arc120. I like to think my reasoning against their current incarnation is sound and factual, but i dont expect people to beleive me. This is the internet, and everybody is an expert.
The Vaksai is fine. I actually think it's one of the mor ebalanced ships in the game..well out of the rotw ones anyway. However...it doesn't need that 150k mass. Half that would be more than enough.
-Leaph
Ducimus wrote:
>>But even you have to agree, there's a SMIDGEN of vindictiveness here.
Hmmm your probably right. Probably a bleed over from forums like the GCW forum where both sides whine, trying to get the other nerfed.
Im a pilot, first and foremost. JTL is WHY i subscribe to SWG at all. Ive done and flown them all, serveral times over. While i finally settled down into imp pilot, I have no factional biases where JTL is concerned. It would be most hipcritical of me if i did. But i do have a beef with the ROTW additions to JTL. Not just the JSF, but every stinking one of them except maybe the Arc120. I like to think my reasoning against their current incarnation is sound and factual, but i dont expect people to beleive me. This is the internet, and everybody is an expert.
Who I love are the same ones still calling for nerfs because of the PYR accelerations.
So, since this thread has some visability:
PYR ACCELERATIONS DO NOT HELP YOU TURN FASTER, THEY MERELY ACCELERATE YOU INTO SAID TURN FASTER. THE DIFFERENCE IS ON THE ORDER OF A FRACTION OF FRACTION OF A SECOND, AND THE TURN RATES OF A 300/300/150 ARE THE EXACT SAME AS A 600/600/300 SHIP WHEN EQUIPPED WITH THE SAME JUNK.
*ahem*
Anyway, I still find it comical that as soon as the it was proven that the PYR accelerations didn't unbalance things that much (or at all, IMO), it immediately shifted en masse to the mass (no pun intended). So there's my point enacted in real life already. Point one got shot down because of testing and common sense, so the "nerfherders" started in on Item #2.
If they succeed in getting the mass nerfed, I guarantee you the second weapon slot is next. I guaran-goddamned-tee it. That or the hitbox. It will NEVER stop if an inch is given.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-19-2005 08:04 PM
Its easy to confuse "turn rate" on paper and in concept to the acutal ingame application. You can sum it up in responsivness. Or how responsive a ship is. I used to comment on this alot so i probably had some poor wording that added to confusion or misinformation.
As for mass, ive always advocated they had too much mass
Think back to the orginal JTL game. Imagine back then an A wing with enough mass to carry L8 engines, shields and guns. Woudlnt that be a little over the top? Espeically vs a 50K mass T/I.But i maintain there has to be a system of balancing that must be adhered to.
More mass = less responsive
More responsive = less mass
Every ship pre ROTW fits into this scale.
One the very end of the responsive scale you have starter ships.
On the other end of the same scale you have the the B wing.
Along that theme, there should be ships that are the poster child of a given attribute. Ships that sacrafice in other areas to excell at something. You have to establsh baslines upon which everything else should be measured. For example, i dont think any ship should be: more responsive the a khirazi (sp);
Smaller than an A wing, More mass then a Bwing, or have a higher mass to manuverablity ratio then an Xwing, or even a higher firepower to manuverablity ratio then Tie Advanced.
These are the baselines upon which balance should be juged in my opinion. All these are why we have different ships. When you start combining too many of these attributes under one chassis, it kinda defeats the point of it all.