Pilot Archive
Thread: JTL Ship Balance Discussion
Ducimus wrote:
quadpers0n wrote:
. i can stay alive just as long in PVE with a 40k mass interceptor as i can with a 170k mass oppressor, it's just that blowing ships up takes more shots.
Eh.. T/I is 50K mass
Although this begs a question, Should all ships excell at all things? Call me old fashioned but ive always beleived a ship is made to fill a specific role. Be it fast interdiction, space supriority, bomber, or even multirole (jack of all trades master of none).
Unfortunatly, this is something JTL has never implemented very well.
Yup. I mean if we were staying true to canon then they would. I -wish- they did but oh well. I mean, I reckon my A-wing is pretty true to canon..Its speedy/manouverable/is made out of paper and...is about as punchy as a erm...well..it isn't really punchy power wise 
.
-Leaph
Ducimus wrote:
quadpers0n wrote:
. i can stay alive just as long in PVE with a 40k mass interceptor as i can with a 170k mass oppressor, it's just that blowing ships up takes more shots.
Eh.. T/I is 50K mass
Although this begs a question, Should all ships excell at all things? Call me old fashioned but ive always beleived a ship is made to fill a specific role. Be it fast interdiction, space supriority, bomber, or even multirole (jack of all trades master of none).
Unfortunatly, this is something JTL has never implemented very well.
I was hoping this is what they'd go for myself. I'd have no problem at all with the newer ships if they simply fit a niche and were balanced accordingly (or even if they were intermediary between niches for that matter).
Id bump it, but im not into necro posting. So ill give a link to it instead and let someone else necro it.
The death of all Pre-ROTW ships (05-05-2005)
PaceNebulon wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
PaceNebulon wrote:
I am so tired of these "discusions". Yes, the ROTW ship are powerful, but the balace between JTL ships and ROTW ships doesn't matter. what matters is the balace between the professions. I thought it was painfully obvious, what SOE is doing with these ships. The ROTW ships are more powerful therefore everyone wants them but to get them you have to buy the expansion. This means that they can ensure that more people will buy the expansion. (BTW for those of you that get some kind of elitist kick out of not using any of these shipsbut still have ROTW... you have alredy fallen into SOE's trap so quit being a whiner and enjoy the new ships).
that being said, if you think they are going to even consider changing the new ships, you were not around during the CU. If they won't listen to large groups of people protesting (in game) then you have overinflated ego that is just taking up space on the forums.
Hmm, tbh the ROTW ships are the JTL equivalent of ubertemplate/comp armour/stun damage, that existed on the ground and prompted the CU, therefore it would be better to deal with them now than let the problem escalate. Plus, you dont have to put BETTER loot, into an expansion to get people to buy it, just NEW loot.
Besides NONE of the ground loot is better than stuff already existing, for example the proton carbine looks cool but if it was loot like the JSF/BSF it would allow you to oneshot kill people from 1000m away, just as the clone armour would allow you to permanently burst run, double your health, inventory, and damge output!
Did you read the second part of my post? yes, did you read mine?
To reiterate, they are using these new ships to bring in money. So don't care what we think as long as people buy ROTW. They are not going to "fix" the new ships, so just accept it and move on. They might one day bring the JTL ships up to speed but I will believe it when it happens. They would still bring in money if the ships were balanced, i bought ROTW for the new ships and i thought they would be balanced. Once again the ground loot is balanced with in game stuff, why not the space loot?
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Did you read the second part of my post? yes, did you read mine?
To reiterate, they are using these new ships to bring in money. So don't care what we think as long as people buy ROTW. They are not going to "fix" the new ships, so just accept it and move on. They might one day bring the JTL ships up to speed but I will believe it when it happens. They would still bring in money if the ships were balanced, i bought ROTW for the new ships and i thought they would be balanced. Once again the ground loot is balanced with in game stuff, why not the space loot?
Yes, I read it. I also read my own post, so I know that I didn't say that it wouldn't be BETTER to change the ROTW ships. I remained completely neutral in the "nerf the JSF" vs. "Leave it alone" debate. I was stating that it is pointless to argue about it. I also didn't address any problems with the ground game, as it isn't even close to being a factor here, I was just using the pointless protests during the CU as an example of SOE completely ignoring whatthe players have to say about content already implemented into the game.
The bottom line is whether you think the ROTW ships throw off this rediculous imaginary balance between JTL ships and ROTW ships (the balace between factions is the ONLY balance that matters), SOE doesn't care and they aren't going to change it. If they were even marginally considering it, all this information would have been covered several times in the first month of release. So there is no need to post these threads once or twice a week. Just suck it up and live with it or quit playing the game.
Toszik wrote:
Hehehe I read through some of that thread Ducimus and I find it funny how the same complaints were being made back then when these ships were first introduced. Another thing I found amusing is how some people in that thread who were opposed to the new fighters, are now the ones defending them tooth and nail in the newer threads. I guess they converted lol.
I will not recant! *shakes fist*
Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-19-2005 11:41 AM
Ducimus wrote:
quadpers0n wrote:
. i can stay alive just as long in PVE with a 40k mass interceptor as i can with a 170k mass oppressor, it's just that blowing ships up takes more shots.
Eh.. T/I is 50K mass
Although this begs a question, Should all ships excell at all things? Call me old fashioned but ive always beleived a ship is made to fill a specific role. Be it fast interdiction, space supriority, bomber, or even multirole (jack of all trades master of none).
Unfortunatly, this is something JTL has never implemented very well.
I think it did to a certain extent pre-ROTW, simply due to mass restrictions, inherent handling characteristics and weapon capabilities. For example, an A-wing was never going to be a weapon of mass destruction with only 65k mass and one blaster hardpoint, but it was fast and manouverable in comparison to ships that could be WMD's like an X-wing/B-wing/TIE Oppressor etc.
Hence, why just bumping up the mass of pre-ROTW ships isn't going to solve anything unless every component also gets a mass increase. Compare an A-wing to a JSF/B22 and you see where the problem lies. These ships, with 2 weapon hardpoints have the ability to deal out a whole lot of damage, they have much more mass, so they can have everything they need, and they are also inherently more manouverable. There are no drawbacks whatsoever to these two ships. With no decay in DS and the B22 being available cheaper than a shipwright made Tier 4 ship, the "these will die out over time" argument holds no water whatsoever.
I agree Leaph. I love the Awing but I might be even more stubborn than you lol. Xwing all the way 
Also, just incase it was taken wrong Ducimus, my post wasn't meant as a poke towards you in any way, just a poke at the people who seemed to change from hating the new ships to defending them
Oh i know.. because i have never really changed my position with ROTW ships.
They've recanted,, i shall not! *beats chest*
RedOnedi wrote:
I have seen it mentioned in many other threads, and maybe it's been mentioned by association with *ROTW* ships but...I have not seen anyone yet mention the one ship that is *grossly* overpowered in this particular thread.
Out for the weekend, so I come to the discussion late.
Pre-ROTW ships are underpowered crap. They all need to be reevaluated. All of them. ROTW and later ships so far are all fine, including the JSF, which I don't fly, but enjoy killing. Those who insist that pre-ROTW ships are exceptionally well balanced are simply used to the old system and really don't want those ships to ever match their canon role, OR only bother with them in PVP, where their incredible difficiences might be made up for by their size or some other advantage (think of the A-Wing here). (A-Wing, TIE Interceptor, TIE/Advanced are all junk in regards to their PVE role)
Ahh, Pace, I do love your posts 
This is just my own subjective point of view, but having flown most of the ships in question, I have to say that the Vaksai is the only one that is truly overpowered. At some point, they will fix the RGI's hitbox, at which point, it will fall out of the overpowered category, which is why I said one ship...I really don't think they will drop the mass of the Vaksai, because it does have it's drawbacks...namely hitbox, fire pattern, and the fact thatit is not *hyper maneuverable*.
Thank you for responding to my post, Pace...I thought I would draw a lot of fire from what I said, but hopefully not
Domingo