Pilot Archive
Thread: In regards to the recent EP3 and /launchmissle posts.
Attacca wrote:
Sometimes we shoot at each other too!
Not on Scylla
LMAO, just kidding, we get a little PvP.
Attacca wrote:
Sometimes we shoot at each other too!
spit wads?
god i feel like i'm in junior high now 
MonsofoLexius wrote:
** looks around here **
Bah! Pilots arguing....
/rubEyes
*** ok have another beer, come back later ***
/buydrink
"--Michael Stackpole, RS IRC
Ducimus wrote:
Personnaly im burnt out on this.
Ive come to the conclusion that its a question ethics and generation.
Simply put, the majority (not all, but most) of the pilots who've been playing for a long time now consider EP3 and luanch missle unethical. Pilots who havent been in the community as long do not. I suspect its a bleedover mentality from the ground game, as we undenaibly have more people from the ground in intrested in space. Why should they think any different in space then they do on the ground? Where as a number of old fogies, the only reason they play SWG at all is JTL.
The attitudes and queensbury rules of fair play that made our community different that we've traditionaly followed have always been slowly erroding away slowly on the edges with each newcomer who just doesnt see things the same way. That is just my personal opinion.
When things get to a certain point, I, much like Starkitten or JebusCrisp, simply wont post here anymore.
I've always fouind your posts to be both informative and interesting Duc, I would hate to see you go. But with respect, the "I'm old school/things were better in my day" argument just doesn't wash with me. Being around forever doesn't make yourpositionmore valid than the next guys in this case.
As a freelancer, I fly freelance ships. I may pull out my Bel for fun, but 99% of the time you will find me in either my Krayt or my Vaksai. The Krayt is powerful, the Vaksai is fast, but nothing I can do will make them any smaller. That means that pilots flying TIES and A-wings have a significant advantage in some situations. So when I engage them (TIEs since I fly reb) I change my tactics. Now, I don't use Epulseit doesn't fit my style of flying. It's all I can do to remember that I have missles. 
FeydmanKassan wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
Personnaly im burnt out on this.
Ive come to the conclusion that its a question ethics and generation.
Simply put, the majority (not all, but most) of the pilots who've been playing for a long time now consider EP3 and luanch missle unethical. Pilots who havent been in the community as long do not. I suspect its a bleedover mentality from the ground game, as we undenaibly have more people from the ground in intrested in space. Why should they think any different in space then they do on the ground? Where as a number of old fogies, the only reason they play SWG at all is JTL.
The attitudes and queensbury rules of fair play that made our community different that we've traditionaly followed have always been slowly erroding away slowly on the edges with each newcomer who just doesnt see things the same way. That is just my personal opinion.
When things get to a certain point, I, much like Starkitten or JebusCrisp, simply wont post here anymore.
I've always fouind your posts to be both informative and interesting Duc, I would hate to see you go. But with respect, the "I'm old school/things were better in my day" argument just doesn't wash with me. Being around forever doesn't make yourpositionmore valid than the next guys in this case.
As a freelancer, I fly freelance ships. I may pull out my Bel for fun, but 99% of the time you will find me in either my Krayt or my Vaksai. The Krayt is powerful, the Vaksai is fast, but nothing I can do will make them any smaller. That means that pilots flying TIES and A-wings have a significant advantage in some situations. So when I engage them (TIEs since I fly reb) I change my tactics. Now, I don't use Epulseit doesn't fit my style of flying. It's all I can do to remember that I have missles.
You and others have expressed your feeling that Epulse is unfair and shouldn't be used. Okay cool, you have every right to feel that way. But as a Freelancer whenever I encounter a TIE, I feel like a bus driver being challenged to a drag race by a Ferrari. So here's the deal for all of you folks who hate Epulse; if you agree to fly a ship that is bigger than the cockpit of my Vaksai, I'll never even think about using Epulse.
Sure, I could change to a Heavy Syck, but it's so much easier to ask others to change their tactics, equipment and play style to suit me than it is for me to adapt.....
you need to remember we were promised a twitch system and in a twitch system a omnidirectional 1 sided I win button is completely insane it should never have been put in game or at the very least put it back to it's old PvE strength and negate it in PvP it's not a matter of "is it fair?" or "is it cheating?" it's a question of "why did they screw up and put this type of ability in a game of this play style?" we're not asking to be god's or for our own "I win" button what we're asking for is a fair shake which Epulse takes away from even the best pilots if the user of ithas a modicum(imo like a 2 on a 1-10 scale if your not shooting back)of skill to avoid lock and hit half the first pass so they are under 300m away.
Yes granted Epulse is one of the coolest RP style abilities so I'd hate to see it leave PvE(preferably restored to full strength)but it truly needs to be negated or to nerfed to oblivion in PvP to make it the game we were promised were pilot skills are MUCH more important than the characters skills(I am disincluding equipment here since that is personal choice of crafted, normal RE'd and insane RE's taht take months')
Like most any contraversial subject, there comes a point where both sides just need to realize that nobody's going to give.
Its been said time and time again, we're PvPing for fun. Nothing tangible is being won or lost. There is no GCW in space. If winning is THAT important to someone, they're gonna do whatever they're gonna do. But after that, lets not have those same people post any complaints about DS being empty and having no one to play with.
IL-Vec wrote:
KaiRan wrote:
/launchmissile is an exploit, IMO. They need to pull the command- its existance does more harm than good.
EPulse hitting friendlies? If that comes into effect, why stop there? Wouldnt then Grenades, Droid Bombs, Commando Weapons, Fan Shot, and all other AOE attacks should do the same? This game has no friendly fire. However... EP3 may need a tweak to its range based on the reactions here. Certianly applying Bomber Strike to PvP may balance it as well. But remove EP from PvP? I simply cannot see a strong enough argument against it, other than the lack of Bomber Strike's PvP application.
Perhaps a red name with "E-Pulse is working as intended" is in order.
Message Edited by KaiRan on 09-19-200501:32 PM
your comparing apples and oranges the ground game is RP based the space game is twitch based
I do think /bstrike in PvP would balance it for imperials(theyeasily die to NPC's if they fire it off)what about rebels
Fair enough, the ground game cannot be used as a direct comparison of mechanics, though I could still argue the philosophies of the two are driven by the same design vision, and "friendly-fire" remains out of both games because it is not a part of that design vision. Regardless, that portion is rather moot, as there is no comparitive PvP tactic for the other two professions.
I could argue that the Freelance ships are by comparison larger and less manuverable as a rule, and thereby the anti-starfighter special available to them is a balancing factor, but new content like the JSF removes that point as well.
I still do not see E-Pulse as nerf-worthy (PvP-wise), though I agree it may need a balance pass. As such, my final conclusion of my last post still stands-
a) Friendly-fire is generally unacceptable as it does not occur in any other portion of the game, ground or space.
b) E-Pulse most likely needs a balance pass, including a second look at the PvP applications of the other professions' specials
c) Removing E-Pulse completely seems like a call for a nerf on the basis "I dont have it and it is good, therefore it must go"... and as a Smuggler on the ground, I've learned that calling for any reduction in ability is a foolish endeavor that always lands the profession in a worse condition. Instead, I would reccomend a call for an addition to the otherbranches, or to all braqnches, that balances this issue either by offering defenses against it, or offenses of equal power/danger.
Never cry nerf, it simply is never applied in a positive way.
At the same time, I'm sensitive to the fact there really aren't many pilot specials that are useful, and that any change that comes as a flat-out nerf is a poor change. I'm a smuggler too. Nerfs blow, and I know that.
What I'd like to see, then, is a change to epulse that shifts it from its current un-JTL-like state to something that is undeniably useful but also within the spirit of the space game. I don't think such a change would be difficult to conjure up, it's just a matter of deciding it's worth the resources to change.
If it were directional, that would be a start. It could be designed to only effect the targeted enemy ship and using the same game mechanics as missles. That would be something I might actually use. I would like to see it remain a Freelance only special for the benefit of those of us who PvP in actual Freelance ships. If not, I'd just as soon see it removed altogether. Launch missle should just be removed. I'm sick of idiots shooting the stupid things at me when I'm trying to get something done.
TomoRainer wrote:
I just don't see epulse as fitting in with the general spirit of the space game. Space is more about pure ability than the ability to use level-granted skills, and to have a "skill" that is essentially uncounterable and unbeatable flies in the face, pardon the pun, of what we're about up here. I think.
At the same time, I'm sensitive to the fact there really aren't many pilot specials that are useful, and that any change that comes as a flat-out nerf is a poor change. I'm a smuggler too. Nerfs blow, and I know that.
What I'd like to see, then, is a change to epulse that shifts it from its current un-JTL-like state to something that is undeniably useful but also within the spirit of the space game. I don't think such a change would be difficult to conjure up, it's just a matter of deciding it's worth the resources to change.
Maudee wrote:
After reading the recent EP3 and /launchmissle posts...
To those of you who use EP3 and /launchmissle in pvp. Shame on you.
Would you grab a chess opponents rook and throw it off the table simply because its possible?
SWG is a game. A game many of us enjoy. Start playing it with a shread of honor. Questionable tactics have their place in real world, life or death, no holds barred conflicts. Again, SWG is a game. We play it for fun. Quit ****ing up everyone elses fun you griefing little shat.
If you don't want to pvp and just want to farm loot, stay out of Deep Space. If you go there anyway, quit EP3'ing and fight back fair. Simply ask the person who kills you,"Hey, nice fight! Do you mind ifI come back and loot unhindered by you?". I bet they'll be happy to help you out. Remember that you're EP3ing us in DS to avoid having to waste time, so instead you're wasting our time.... in deep space.... a known and obvious pvp zone.... seriously?! whats wrong with some of you people??? It's not our job to ask if its ok to attack you in DS. You get kessel to fly non-overt, go back to it.
As for /launchmissle. Its an obvious vestigial piece of code. Its not a "tactic" left in by the dev's. Its not ment to be a counter-countermeasure. So quit using it in pvp fights moron. Screwing around with itin a non-combat area it can be entertaining. But in a pvp situation it is flat out cheating. Don't even attempt to justify using /launchmissle in pvp combat, you're simply making a statement on the type of person you are.
Hell, I'm not too big of a fan of missles, but hey, I can throw on CM's if I don't like them. That's called balanced and fair play. EP3 and /launchmissle "tactics" are obviously not fair play, and so help me god if I have to read another "The US bombed Iraq with laser guided missles that Iraq couldn't shoot down. That wasn't fair, it was a smarttactic!" post. Again, for you slow ones... SWG is a game. Just like football. Just like chess. Just like dodgeball. Play fair. You know damn well what cheating is. So quit doing it.
As for the majority of the pilot community. I'm continually suprised at the honor and general niceness of you all. The pilot community, in my opinion, is one of the last truely close knit communities in SWG and I'm glad to be a part of it.
Unfortunately we'll always have a few of these U83R, win-at-all-costs gamers in the community. As much as I hate to say it, lets keep flaming the crap out of their silly justificationposts,and continue to chase them out of town with pitchforks in hand. I'll be damned if I concede to the"I win", no honor, uber-leet tactics in space.
/end rant
-Maudee
Message Edited by Maudee on 09-16-2005 09:16 AM
Well thanks Maudee. Had it not been for your petulant little rant and the subsequent flames, I would never have realized that EP3 was a dangerous tactic in PvP, and I never did know how to do the /launchmissle thing - but I sure do now!
Oh don't act so surprised, one of my friends on Chimaera is a forum Corro, and in the game he told me that the Devs had found a way to fix the 0 mass RE bug. I was pretty glad they did after he explained what it was! That was an EVIL bug! I didn't know anything about that either. Then again, I don't go looking for, nor do I abuse bugs.
My point here is that I play SWG for fun, and I PvP in DS for fun. I was thinking that PvP was movement, guns, and missles and I didn't know that EP3 was so powerful, so I never used it. But now I do, and not only that, EP3 is perfectly legal!
My other point is that after your long rant (and every other "vet" out there complaining about it and descrbing it in detail) I'm going to bet that I'm not the only pilot that learned about a neat new tactic for PvP, and an annoying little bug to throw at an opponent.
The irony here is that instead of making a situation better, you may very well have done a lot to make it worse. Grief players and players with a WAAC mentality just live for information like this, and you handed it to them on a platter. They will know it gets under your skin, and that is *exactly* where the grief player wants to be.
Message Edited by Starstrider6 on 09-20-2005 09:00 AM
TomoRainer wrote:
I just don't see epulse as fitting in with the general spirit of the space game. Space is more about pure ability than the ability to use level-granted skills, and to have a "skill" that is essentially uncounterable and unbeatable flies in the face, pardon the pun, of what we're about up here. I think.
At the same time, I'm sensitive to the fact there really aren't many pilot specials that are useful, and that any change that comes as a flat-out nerf is a poor change. I'm a smuggler too. Nerfs blow, and I know that.
What I'd like to see, then, is a change to epulse that shifts it from its current un-JTL-like state to something that is undeniably useful but also within the spirit of the space game. I don't think such a change would be difficult to conjure up, it's just a matter of deciding it's worth the resources to change.