Pilot Archive
Thread: The FS Conversion Dead Horse
What I still feel you have utterly failed to do is to show that players who have an interest in the health of the space-based systems in the game desire the addition you propose.
Pointing to a thread in the FS Forum that shows a lot of people who are bored of grinding on the ground and want to grind in space is not proof. In fact, I'd venture to say that, if they were to actually read through a lot of the opinions that are spat out in that thread, that more Pilots would be against adding the FS grind to space rather than be in favor of it.
You have made you case, it hasn't seemed to move many people. The burden is still on you, however, so do not get aloof (and say things about how you have seniority over other people) and believe that other people must prove you wrong.
Shona
A dialog consists of statement>response>rebuttal>repeat pointing back to your original post and refusing to amend or expand your thoughts when asked to do so repeatedly, does not foster a dialog. Endlessly repeating yourself (pointing to your original post counts as such) does absolutely nothing for the conversation, except paint you as a high minded know it all with no real desire to reach a compromise. Lastly, do me a favor, stop calling me dude. You're lowering the level of your own "dialog" each time you do.
AnzelVincir wrote:
I'd be happy to have a normal dialogue..
psikobunny wrote:A dialog consists of statement>response>rebuttal>repeat pointing back to your original post and refusing to amend or expand your thoughts when asked to do so repeatedly, does not foster a dialog. Endlessly repeating yourself (pointing to your original post counts as such) does absolutely nothing for the conversation, except paint you as a high minded know it all with no real desire to reach a compromise. Lastly, do me a favor, stop calling me dude. You're lowering the level of your own "dialog" each time you do.
AnzelVincir wrote:I'd be happy to have a normal dialogue..
QFE
psikobunny wrote:
A dialog consists of statement>response>rebuttal>repeat pointing back to your original post and refusing to amend or expand your thoughts when asked to do so repeatedly, does not foster a dialog. Endlessly repeating yourself (pointing to your original post counts as such) does absolutely nothing for the conversation, except paint you as a high minded know it all with no real desire to reach a compromise. Lastly, do me a favor, stop calling me dude. You're lowering the level of your own "dialog" each time you do. << No problem, but in all fairnessI though it was O.K. to use 'dude' with a guy calling himself 'psikobunny'...
AnzelVincir wrote:
I'd be happy to have a normal dialogue..
AnzelVincir wrote:
I propose we start over. .... I mean me and you. I know the game very well. You know the game very well. I feel one way. You feel another way. You obviously have several objections on the matter so let's start with the biggest one. As a veteren player who knows the game what is your biggest objection?
If your intention is a one on one discussion with psikobunny, I recommend you use forums PMs.
Since you have chosen to use the forum, I'll give you mine.
The experience system in space uses such a different system of experience gain that I do not feel it is compatible with the Aurillia system as designed.
Starship Combat Experience has modifiers on it that adjust exp gain based on you Piloting past - more factions mastered means more experience per kill. Also, you 'freeze' SCE at its level upon getting your Master/Ace box, never to gain it again until you fully resign. Lasty, while few people are willing to test for a cap on SCE, there are people who have taken it to at least 7,500,000 points. Without a cap on the amount of accumulated exp as well as a conversion ratio that makes the SCE cap amount convert to FS Experience roughly equal to the Ground Weapons Combat Exp + Ground Combat Exp converted amount, then you have unbalanced the Aurillia system.
Prestige, on the other hand, can not be gained by anyone but a Master/Ace Pilot. There is no known cap, with players having gone into the 9-digit amounts of Prestige. Again, I believe the maximum converted Presige gained on one trip to Aurillia should be roughly equal to the amount that can be gained using Combat and Weapons Combat Experience. Without a cap on Prestige then that is impossible. Placing a cap on Prestige is a serious blow to many 'old-hand' Pilots who not only would rather not have their Prestige converted, but also prefer it be kept until spendable on Pilot-related purchases.
In essense, the space-based Experience model works in space, but I do not understand how you see it as compatible with the FS system as designed.
Shona
psikobunny wrote:
A dialog consists of statement>response>rebuttal>repeat pointing back to your original post and refusing to amend or expand your thoughts when asked to do so repeatedly, does not foster a dialog. Endlessly repeating yourself (pointing to your original post counts as such) does absolutely nothing for the conversation, except paint you as a high minded know it all with no real desire to reach a compromise.
AnzelVincir wrote:
I'd be happy to have a normal dialogue..
Obviously it's more difficult to "foster dialog" than what you outline here. I'm telling you point blank that I'd be happy to discuss any objection you have with this idea in a direct manner. Name calling and try to belittle my attention span probably isn't the best way to start.
This thread will keep going until we get a definitive and final answer. If this thread gets locked as a result of childish behavior then I'll start another one under a different account. If that account gets ban I'll use a different account. etc. etc. etc.
So unless you can respond with one objection I will completely ingnore everything you write and consider any other such response as trolling. If you can however provide me with a legitimate objection then I would be happy to engage in the dialogue you outline above.
AnzelVincir wrote:
This thread will keep going until we get a definitive and final answer. If this thread gets locked as a result of childish behavior then I'll start another one under a different account. If that account gets ban I'll use a different account. etc. etc. etc.So unless you can respond with one objection I will completely ingnore everything you write and consider any other such response as trolling.
OK, that's enough for me. Anzel, threatening to troll and then blaming other people of trolling is about as unacceptable forum behavior as I can imagine and the Pilot Forum has, in general, stayed free from such swill. Please re-think you approach.
Shona
Message Edited by SheenaBrelya on 04-19-2005 02:40 PM
AnzelVincir wrote:
So unless you can respond with one objection I will completely ingnore everything you write and consider any other such response as trolling. If you can however provide me with a legitimate objection then I would be happy to engage in the dialogue you outline above.
I wasn't trying to outline ground rules for a dialog, I was pointing out to you how you've been acting a hypocrite, by ignoring valid objections, and simply repeating tired catchphrases and letting yourself get bogged down by trolls; Instead of fostering a real dialog.
Hehe, ignore me, thats good, if you already hadntalready ignored mine and other serious valid objections in this very thread, that might carry some weight. You obviously like repeating yourself, but I don't.
TomoRainer wrote:
If you want objections, Anzel, I suggest you just reread the thread. There's been plenty of them so far. Some of them have come with a hefty dose of flaming, yeah, but they're here and they're not hard to find. Spending 15 minutes to go over what's already been posted is going to let you understand the counterpoints a lot better than asking an already frustrated group of players to repost their opinions a second or third time.
I don't think it's going to make a difference, Tomo. His mind's made up and he doesn't want to have to face the proof that his ideas don't work and aren't well thought-out. It's like a microcosm of the modern political system, really. Everyone has their ideas and ignores rational oposing views rather then trying to rebut them.
psikobunny wrote:
AnzelVincir wrote:
So unless you can respond with one objection I will completely ingnore everything you write and consider any other such response as trolling. If you can however provide me with a legitimate objection then I would be happy to engage in the dialogue you outline above.
I wasn't trying to outline ground rules for a dialog, I was pointing out to you how you've been acting a hypocrite, by ignoring valid objections, and simply repeating tired catchphrases and letting yourself get bogged down by trolls; Instead of fostering a real dialog.
Hehe, ignore me, thats good, if you already hadntalready ignored mine and other serious valid objections in this very thread, that might carry some weight. You obviously like repeating yourself, but I don't.
I asked you to point out your biggest objection. You keep saying that I'm "ignoring valid ojbections". What objections? Give me one. Hell quote one I don't care. Copy and paste if you need. Beyond that I'm not sure how to 'foster real dialogue'...
ValiantHalibut wrote:
TomoRainer wrote:
If you want objections, Anzel, I suggest you just reread the thread. There's been plenty of them so far. Some of them have come with a hefty dose of flaming, yeah, but they're here and they're not hard to find. Spending 15 minutes to go over what's already been posted is going to let you understand the counterpoints a lot better than asking an already frustrated group of players to repost their opinions a second or third time.
I don't think it's going to make a difference, Tomo. His mind's made up and he doesn't want to have to face the proof that his ideas don't work and aren't well thought-out. It's like a microcosm of the modern political system, really. Everyone has their ideas and ignores rational oposing views rather then trying to rebut them.
What 'ideas' are you referring to? Reduced shuttle times? Calling pets/droids in the wild? Armor encumberence? Specials causing damage to the user? Galaxy Wide Vendor Search? Mind buff times? These have all been pretty good ideas and oh yeah, people had the same type of objections then that they do now to this 'idea'.
I think I can speak for psikobunny, ducimus, and the others when I say that the real reson they haven't stated one objection to this idea is because they know there is nothing legitimate that they can say besides "I don't have the patience to become a Jedi and I don't think anyone else should have one either."
Scroll up just a touch and you'll see me asking at leat three times in a row for any such objection and all you'll find is the same people saying the same thing over and over. You'll see psiko repeating over and over that he doesn't like to repeat himself, youll see ducimus calling me a retard, etc. etc. etc. Jealousy, fear, insults, etc. Everything except a well articulated and legitimate objection.