Pilot Archive

Thread: Serious Problem: Target Hit Registered Visually But Deals No Damage Please voice your support!

Niego
Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:49 pm
#66

Well, I've been reporting this bug since weeks before beta ended. I'm very disappointed to find that it still exists and has not even been acknowledged by the devs. My machine is well above minimum specs, and I'm on a fast cable connection. Last night my network stats (as reported by SWG) were 75 ms ping and 30 fps while in space, with 0 packet loss. Last night was worse than any other time I've noticed this problem, so bad in fact that I logged out and watched an episode of Deadwood rather than continue my duty mission.

This is a real problem. If a real "glancing blow" were the issue, I'd accept that. But dead center shots on the top of an enemy ship should do some kind of damage.

No, I don't use the target reticle and don't rely on it as gospel. Yes, I know how to lead with my shots to actually damage a ship. It's extremely annoying though, to visually see your shot land and have it do no damage whatsoever.
ActiveNick
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:35 pm
#67






Obeewana_Doobie wrote:

ActiveNick, have you called tech support to see what they have to say? The reason I ask is your hardware may not be supported. I can tell you for a fact that at the game companies I've worked for have never tested on laptops. They work or they don't,and that's the sad simple truth. Sorry you're so frustrated and unable to play.





I've had great nights where everything was great, and if you read the thread, you'll notice many many have that problem. And I've been at LAN parties with this laptop where my laptop was like the 2nd most powerful machine in the room, and we played crazy recent games. And as I said, my specs are well above the recommended specs. I am able to play, I'm 1-2-1-1 now and growing (little playtime), but I've had some close calls whenI would fight 5 tier 3 ships on a duty tour with my little dune lizard filled with level 5 parts... I would waste a lot of time pounding uselessly at one ship while the other 4 would punish me to no end.


Thanks for your feedback and support.





Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
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ActiveNick
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:37 pm
#68






Niego wrote:
Well, I've been reporting this bug since weeks before beta ended. I'm very disappointed to find that it still exists and has not even been acknowledged by the devs. My machine is well above minimum specs, and I'm on a fast cable connection. Last night my network stats (as reported by SWG) were 75 ms ping and 30 fps while in space, with 0 packet loss. Last night was worse than any other time I've noticed this problem, so bad in fact that I logged out and watched an episode of Deadwood rather than continue my duty mission.

This is a real problem. If a real "glancing blow" were the issue, I'd accept that. But dead center shots on the top of an enemy ship should do some kind of damage.

No, I don't use the target reticle and don't rely on it as gospel. Yes, I know how to lead with my shots to actually damage a ship. It's extremely annoying though, to visually see your shot land and have it do no damage whatsoever.



Same here, last night was worse than usual. Election night went almost flawlessly, over 90% of my registered shots did damage.





Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
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Nix' Wynters, Imperial Special Agent Undercover
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Great Dark Force Wielding Knight - Imperial Ace Pilot
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ActiveNick
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:45 pm
#69

QUICK UPDATE


For those of you who are not sure if you have this problem because you never really noticed it:


It's important that you always keep your eyes on the selected target stats to see if every registered blow actually deals damage. WhatI recommend is moving the target info window from the default top right position and place it right under your reticle, between the center of the screen and your radar. This way you can keep a close tab on damage as you hit the ships since a quick glance can show you both the hit register on the target in space, and whether or not the Shield/Armor/Engine/System % were affected.


Do not trust your eyes. These buggy hits *DO* register visually and audibly on the target ship, but the server does not ackowledge the damage.


Recap of the problem: Basically, the problem is when you shoot a ship and the client software registers the hit, you will see the shield bubble flare around your target and you will hear the shields take the hit, but if you look at the target stats, often the ship shields and armor are still at 100%, even though you hit it. The problem is the server is telling the client where your target is, the client draws the ship on screen, you fire and you hit, but in reality the ship is no longer there because there is always a delay between client and server sync. Which means we have to often shoot at empty space to anticipate where the target will be, our bolts will visibly miss the target, but we still do damage.

The basic problem is our eyes rely on client feedback to determine where we aim, but the server relies on server position to determine if you hit. When these 2 get out of sync, and sometimes it gets really bad, you pound a ship like crazy, you keep hitting it but do no damage. Then at some point, the client and server resync their positions, you will see your target jump/warp in space, or your speed will drop to zero and climb back to full. Then when you shoot, all your shots land properly for a short time, until they get out of sync again.




Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
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Great Dark Force Wielding Knight - Imperial Ace Pilot
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Antilles98
Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:09 pm
#70

Hell yah!

I don't know what the hell they did in Beta, as this wasn't a problem when I stopped playing in Beta. But now that it's in retial, they totally borked it all to hell targeting wise. This is the worse system of any flight sim when the lead-target icon is SO far off! This is totally rediculous and it really detracts from the fun of the game.
fyreblayd28
Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:31 pm
#71






ActiveNick wrote:

And another thread on the same matter:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=lightspeed&message.id=129243


and here is an interesting quote I found in there which might explain some stuff I'm experiencing:






There's actually two different invulnerability bugs and one "feature" that combine to make ships un-killable.
The first is the top/bottom invuln bug. Most people know about that one.
The "feature" is that once you disable a target, no other player can hit it for damage. I assume this was put in place to stop a person from griefing missions by killing disabled targets that people are trying to dock with.
The second bug is that after a ship is disabled, even the pilot who disabled it in the first place cannot damage the ship for 5 to 10 seconds. Essentially, disabled ships are temporarily invulnerable from all angles, even to the pilot who caused the ship to be disabled.
These two bugs and one feature make killing certain craft extremely challenging in JTL. SOE has acknowledged the existence of the first bug, but not the second. Hopefully they'll both get squashed soon.
~S




I'm really hoping we'll get some dev attention soon over this matter.





Oh ummm I will be the first to tell you that those are utter bull. First I am always disabling targets for my guildmates so theycan level faster since they are tier 1's and I am Tier 3. Seccond That docking thing. I have disabled a ship and had it blown up beneath me while starting the docking by some moron or another that really does not care that he sees someone docking a ship.



I have found though something that people might think is that invulnerablitity bug. I have seen the shield flashes and even hull flares when I should have been hitting. But no damage to be seen. I change my aim and my shots fly right by the ship and boom I start doing damage. People need to stop watching to see the hit on the ship but rather watch the damage indicator. If you see the damage flowing wether you see it hit or not you have found the sweet spot. Keep on it because once you move out of it the sweet spot will move before you can readjust back to it. I fire just my ion till I see damage then when I see damage on the ship I will let loose with all three weapons at once.


Slingblade37814
Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:21 pm
#72

happening to me also..driving me crazy...do something devs...im payign 15 bucks a month and i payed for JTL...now fix it dammit!



---Bria----Mase' Stormrage---
israiley
Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:51 pm
#73






fyreblayd28 wrote:



I have found though something that people might think is that invulnerablitity bug. I have seen the shield flashes and even hull flares when I should have been hitting. But no damage to be seen. I change my aim and my shots fly right by the ship and boom I start doing damage. People need to stop watching to see the hit on the ship but rather watch the damage indicator. If you see the damage flowing wether you see it hit or not you have found the sweet spot. Keep on it because once you move out of it the sweet spot will move before you can readjust back to it. I fire just my ion till I see damage then when I see damage on the ship I will let loose with all three weapons at once.








yes doing things like firing until you see damaging being taken by the target and continuing to fire at that lead spot may be a temporary fix, but the point of this thread is that having to do this proves that the bug/client server disagreement exists.



rail

"Well sir, although I may not agree with what you say, I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire/Peter Griffin
NIR_Bria
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:13 am
#74

Well, as response to the first poster...


I realize that you were very good at the WC series along with all the XWing games...


Most of those are single player only with XvT/BoP and XWAlliance being the exceptions


I can only say one thing... You need to learn how to hit a ghosty ship... Every time I went online and played XvT or XWA I had more or less ghosting... its simply a natural part of playing such a game online.


As one of the other posters said... aim a little inside the lead box, that should make it quite a bit easier.


Just as a footnote.. I played XvT for atleast 5 years online so I do know what I'm talking about..



GL mon



Lt Col. Tahiri' Veila * Imperial Ace Pilot
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ActiveNick
Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:39 am
#75

Thanks to everyone who have been sharing their experiences with this problem and have voiced their support so far.


Most of the posts in here are good but I want to make sure we keep it constructive and not explode in anger. Devs, Tiggs, TH said they ignore threads that become too negative or basheful, which is not always the case as I've seen them reply to very bad threads, but I want to make sure we keep this one as clean and mature as possible so we can eventually get an official statement from them.


TH, Tiggs, devs... or even our correspondent _Smoke_, we know this is not a small matter that can be fixed overnight with a hotfix that was tested for 1 day on TC. We know this is a serious problem that goes to the core of the SWG architecture. What we are hoping for now is an open dialogue with you guys as far as where you stand on this issue and what is being done to address it in the near future. Will you give us an official statement please. There is a staggering number of people more severely affected by this bug moreso than others, and I'm sure there are 1000's of pilots out there who struggle in space and are not sure why because they never took the time to monitor damage vs hits.


Can we get an official response and open a contructive dialog on this issue please?


Thanks.




Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
Elder Entertainer, Dancer, Musician, ID - Double Rank 3 Popularity - RSF Ace Pilot
Nix' Wynters, Imperial Special Agent Undercover
Elder Bounty Hunter - Tier 2 Imperial Pilot
Dhraax Wynters, Imperial Colonel and Follower of the Sith (aka Darth Peior)
Great Dark Force Wielding Knight - Imperial Ace Pilot
Rrowl, Kashyyykian Smuggler
Elder Smuggler
Xxin Sretnyw, Professional Ithorian Crafter and Businessman
Elder Shipwright, Droid Engineer, Artisan - Entrepreneur

ActiveNick
Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:10 pm
#76

I changed the title of the top post to make it easier for others to know what we're talking about in here.




Nix Wynters, Professional Live Performer (Undercover Persona)
Elder Entertainer, Dancer, Musician, ID - Double Rank 3 Popularity - RSF Ace Pilot
Nix' Wynters, Imperial Special Agent Undercover
Elder Bounty Hunter - Tier 2 Imperial Pilot
Dhraax Wynters, Imperial Colonel and Follower of the Sith (aka Darth Peior)
Great Dark Force Wielding Knight - Imperial Ace Pilot
Rrowl, Kashyyykian Smuggler
Elder Smuggler
Xxin Sretnyw, Professional Ithorian Crafter and Businessman
Elder Shipwright, Droid Engineer, Artisan - Entrepreneur

lund0529
Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:26 pm
#77

I agree BUT if you let the client override the server, people will hack the client. You'll have muliple players shooting at seemingly different spots and hitting the same target.


To me, it would seem that between the server and the client, they could decide how much lag there is from ping,figure out where the client should think thetarget is, andregister the damage when the player shoots what he or she sees.
Co-valent
Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:37 pm
#78

I definately believe I'm suffering from this. 90% or more of my shots don't cause damage, and I fairly frequently get shifted back a 100m or so, but this doesn't really help me too much, as I'm usually out of range and not on target for the brief period of time I get to hit them.




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