Pilot Archive

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FataIity wrote:
Whats wrong with "merry go round fights" The player with the best aim is going to win. Pre ROTW I pvp'ed in a TIE Interceptor, now I use a JF, only when in deepspace, I got overt in her, then run my arse to the Deepspace station. Yes the Jedi is alot better then my Interceptor was, but moslty in thePVE area. The JF can hold a better shield and has one more weapon, rest of the componates are the same as my Interceptor runs.

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The thing that's wrong with "merry-go-round" fights is that it does not make for a good game.

In fact, it makes the entire flight part of combat completely pointless, since maneuvering is a disadvantage. The person with the smallest ship will usually win in that situation.

As for the components on your Jedi Starfighter, that's not really the issue. Well, yes, the mass is too high, but together with the stats on the chassis, it's pretty much a "composite in space". With more than double the pitch, yaw and roll rate of the A-wing, together with about 25-30k more mass and an additional weapon mount, it's not hard to see how this ship (and most of the "new" ships) is way overpowered. Quite simply: They all need to be nerfed for the health of the game.

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Vicotnik wrote:

The thing that's wrong with "merry-go-round" fights is that it does not make for a good game.

In fact, it makes the entire flight part of combat completely pointless, since maneuvering is a disadvantage. The person with the smallest ship will usually win in that situation.

As for the components on your Jedi Starfighter, that's not really the issue. Well, yes, the mass is too high, but together with the stats on the chassis, it's pretty much a "composite in space". With more than double the pitch, yaw and roll rate of the A-wing, together with about 25-30k more mass and an additional weapon mount, it's not hard to see how this ship (and most of the "new" ships) is way overpowered. Quite simply: They all need to be nerfed for the health of the game.

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Yeah, they are better than the AWIng.. but.. as with everything so far there is a counter to these benefits..

Heavy Scyk: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Heavy TIE/Ln: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Heavy Z-95: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
ARC-170: 125K mass(?), 1 SP weapon 2 MP, ? ordnance, ? speed, ?/?/? P/Y/R
Grievous Fighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Jedi Starfighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R

6 seperate ships with the same stats. (Not sure about the ARC) 3 of these are craftable ships and easily optainable. the other 3 reward ships are one-time only rewards.

Again, I see your point but the difference is that now Rebels don't have the AWing trump card. Previously Imps did not have a ship to compete with AWing stats. Now we all do. Not too mention considering these ships are obtainable by anyone the field is level.

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Vegitaa wrote:

Thing is, the people who fight the most in deep space, will all have these ships. Be it the Hvy versions or the reward ships. Anyone who is serious about space PvP already goes out to get the best components, ships, etc... whats the difference? I'll be getting my hands on the Hvy TIE/IN tonight to see how it fares against the JSF.

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The yellow highlighted text is the problem. Overpowered ships like these does nothing but give us a scenario with "composite in space". But I suppose this was all planned by certain developers, so that they can push a "JTL Combat Upgrade Rebalance Revamp" in 2006.

... And this is not even mentioning the problem with supposedly outdated technology outperforming current technology by a multiplier of above two. And it's not even mentioning the problem that the best thing you can use in a Star Wars game centered around the original trilogies is junk from Episode 3.

I'll support a nerf on these ships anyday.

Honestly, the Hvy TIE/LN is better than the JSF. The Hvy Z95 is better than the JSF, all craftable and can be used by non-ROTW enabled players.

Composite in space is what we already had. Every Rebel flew an AWing in DS with EOL4, WOL3, ReactOL4, etc....

Every Imp flew either an Oppresor or Intercepter, both of which were overclassed by the AWing. I didn't hear Rebels screaming NERF then. Point is, you can still fly Iconic ships and they're still just as useful. I used to take out AWings in my FireSpray, sure I was outturned but I could manage. Why is it that these new ships are so bad?

With 6 of them 3 iconic in our timeline ships and 3 reward vessels... more variaty is good, we definately agree there. No one having an "I Win" button, we agree there. But personally, I think if I felt like I was being killed "unfairly" by someone in a JSF, I'd just go get myself a Hvy Z95 and own them with it. Or the new XWing (not sure on it's stats though).

I've been here since launch, this much I have learned... when the Dev's NERF something, it isn't in "balance" they NERF it to DEATH! Thus making it useless. I don't want to see my new pretty ships (or your new pretty ships) end up like that.

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Vegitaa wrote:

Yeah, they are better than the AWIng.. but.. as with everything so far there is a counter to these benefits..

Heavy Scyk: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Heavy TIE/Ln: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Heavy Z-95: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
ARC-170: 125K mass(?), 1 SP weapon 2 MP, ? ordnance, ? speed, ?/?/? P/Y/R
Grievous Fighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Jedi Starfighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R

6 seperate ships with the same stats. (Not sure about the ARC) 3 of these are craftable ships and easily optainable. the other 3 reward ships are one-time only rewards.

Again, I see your point but the difference is that now Rebels don't have the AWing trump card. Previously Imps did not have a ship to compete with AWing stats. Now we all do. Not too mention considering these ships are obtainable by anyone the field is level.

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But that's just highligting more of the problems, 6 ships of which three are high-mass variants of already existing ships. Basically, we have Composite in space with a few different skins. None of these ships are fit to fly in the "old JTL" system, they are all completely unbalanced. Hell, they haven't even been tested enough yet, and they do not at all follow the design philosophy behind the older ships (whereas all the ships where supposedto be individual and have their owncapabilities).These ships are for the most part all exactly the same, with some small cosmetic differences and a few different weapon mounts here and there. That's EXACTLY what we had in JTL beta, where all ships behaved exactly the same in flight, we got them to change that though, but it seems like they are back at the same freaky idea that "composite in space is the way to go".

The only thing that can happen is a nerf, or would you really want the developers to do a JTL "Combat Upgrade Rebalance Revamp", because that is what would need to be done

As for the "Rebels lacking the A-wing trump card". Sorry, imperials already had a ship (actually two) to compete with the A-wing. The Tie INT and Adv both have similar stats to the A-wing, but have slightly bigger hitboxes.

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neinnunb wrote:
Im going to put these two stats together so everyone, even hopefully a DEV will see this:

Heavy Z-95: 95K mass, 1 weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
A-Wing: 65K mass, 1 weapon, 1 ordnance, 1.0 speed, 250/250/125 P/Y/R

You dont need to be a rocket scientist to see the A-wing is now useless. Who would ever use one now?

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My 2 cents - These ships (like has been mention before in this post) are in the same state as JTL was in Beta, all pretty much max YPR. I'm guessing they just haven't had the time to balance them yet, though I would expectit to happen at some point...

Any word on this Tomo?

I'm also wondering how the ARC-170 will work, I cant imagine anyone having 2 rear gunners (often) unless they like to run away a lot! . In which case, how are we going to be able to invite a friend to sit in a particular turret?

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CommTampers wrote:

The heavies are hands-down great for dog-fighting, but not tho other roles.

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Rogue135 wrote:
Just my personal opinion, but I'd rather see old ships brought in line rather than nerfing the new ones into oblivion.

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psikobunny wrote:

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Rogue135 wrote:
Just my personal opinion, but I'd rather see old ships brought in line rather than nerfing the new ones into oblivion.

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In line? Its far easier bringing the 9 new chassis into the realm of the 30+ other ships than it would be to soup up all the others, and all the gear to match. The technology this game runs under has limits (the lag we've all seen in space post RotW is testament to that) and the new ships seem to fall beyond those limits. Time will tell, but I know the Devs would much rather fix 9 ships now than have to do a full SCU (space Combat Upgrade) next year.

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Totally agree . You can't have every ship with silly YPR rates- it makes having multiple ships pointless - all you need is the one with the most mass and most guns, ala JTL beta when the B-Wing was the 'I win' button, PvE was too easyand PvP became a boring spiralling dance with little tactics.

I like the fact you have trade-offs between performance / firepower, thats how it should be

What is with the turn fight hate I see going on? Turn fights take skill, only newbies and people that never pvp in space think you "keep going around" you have to jink and move, plus boosting at the perfect time to line up a snap shot before your ret losses track of the target. I've love to see all the small fighters bumped up to match the JF.

Then to ballance that give larger "bomber" class ships heavy shields and better weapons they only they can use. Thats the way space combat should be. More mass, = more weapons, plus damage taking ability.