Pilot Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Master Content and Prestige Points (updated 3/3/2005)
MonsofoLexius
Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:02 pm
#66
FrankLee wrote:
MonsofoLexius wrote:
Just for those still following along, for whatever the posters reasons, the following seem to be the best arguments against or things that would make a conversion difficult:
- We are a 0 skill point profession (only combat related profession)
- (while it is not a big one) We are the only profession that has a use for post master xp: Enter Deep Space
- Space xp can be too easy to get
- The previous-master XP bonus (I have done at least 2 masters on my 2 JTL toons) would be hard to account for (and we are the only profession that has a bonus)
So I can say that we allready many benefits for xp post master, and I think that there are far better things to offer up to dev's other then a FS conversion.
To respectfully discuss:
1. No SP expenditure is required to throw a grenade, which appears to be a going concern with FS accumulation. Politician XP converts to FS, and that profession requires no SP expenditure. I do agree that this is still the most relevant of concerns however. Politician is severly gated on xp, a 2nd time master can easily get a million pretige points inless then aday.
2. All professions other than pilot use post-master exp as FS conversion, so they all have post-master uses. Yes FS points are a voluntary event, but so is post-master use of Prestige. You acually made my point
3. Agreed, but the FS conversion rate can be made difficult to account for it. There are already several conversion rates in use.
4. Also agreed, but since it is obviously a tracked metric, this should be a surmountable obstacle. At worst, the conversion rate could be made stiff enough to account for multiple-mastery.
My thought is this: We can't have everything, what would rather have:
- A FS trade in
- Something to add to our use of pretige to enter DS
Because if we try for both I can allready tell ya that many of the other profession would be upset that we get to do both. And yes it would put more pilots in space to grind xp, but would hardly add to any PvP or JTL content.
FrankLee
Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:43 pm
#67
MonsofoLexius wrote:
FrankLee wrote:
MonsofoLexius wrote:Just for those still following along, for whatever the posters reasons, the following seem to be the best arguments against or things that would make a conversion difficult:
- We are a 0 skill point profession (only combat related profession)
- (while it is not a big one) We are the only profession that has a use for post master xp: Enter Deep Space
- Space xp can be too easy to get
- The previous-master XP bonus (I have done at least 2 masters on my 2 JTL toons) would be hard to account for (and we are the only profession that has a bonus)
So I can say that we allready many benefits for xp post master, and I think that there are far better things to offer up to dev's other then a FS conversion.
To respectfully discuss:
1. No SP expenditure is required to throw a grenade, which appears to be a going concern with FS accumulation. Politician XP converts to FS, and that profession requires no SP expenditure. I do agree that this is still the most relevant of concerns however. Politician is severly gated on xp, a 2nd time master can easily get a million pretige points inless then aday.
2. All professions other than pilot use post-master exp as FS conversion, so they all have post-master uses. Yes FS points are a voluntary event, but so is post-master use of Prestige. You acually made my point
3. Agreed, but the FS conversion rate can be made difficult to account for it. There are already several conversion rates in use.
4. Also agreed, but since it is obviously a tracked metric, this should be a surmountable obstacle. At worst, the conversion rate could be made stiff enough to account for multiple-mastery.My thought is this: We can't have everything, what would rather have:
- A FS trade in
- Something to add to our use of pretige to enter DS
Because if we try for both I can allready tell ya that many of the other profession would be upset that we get to do both. And yes it would put more pilots in space to grind xp, but would hardly add to any PvP or JTL content.
1. As previously stated: Relative value is not an issue. Conversion rates can accommodate ANY rational, non-imaginary number. Politician's rate or bugginess is not my point. My point is that they spend 0 SP, and can make FS from their career.
2. Perhaps I misunderstood this point then. I read it to mean: We're (as pilots) the only class that has another way to spend our post-master experience. To this I disagree, as stated above.
As I've stated more than once, I'm not pushing for this to the exclusion of something else. I'm not concerned with 'other professions' impressions of additional code for space, for two reasons: 'Other Professions' are presently getting a gigantic overhaul on two fronts; the GCW, and the CURB. As well, I cannot honestly see how adding (what appears to be) a few subroutines to allow Prestige-to-FS conversion is going to tip the scales of Developer time, and cause a mass uproar. If it were to be some gigantic undertaking, I'd retract my request. It was my impression, fostered earlier in the thread that this was not a 'ONLY this, or ONLY that' request for opinions. You did in fact ask for an opinion if another option was also available, and it is on that basis that I present such an opinion.
And finally, I didn't propose that adding conversion would be some magic cure or super advantage to space. What I said was if you limit participation in space by attempting to limit its benefits, you will limit the playing population of space. Doing so will ensure that there won't be frequent or varied PvP. Doing so will _likely_ mean that as a smaller part of the game, you'll get a smaller share of Developer attention.
psikobunny
Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:36 pm
#68
Ok, I'm not going to get involved into FS conversion argument (except to say I'm agin it)
Here's my Idea.
In Smuggler's Alliance you work for several Bosses. As you progress the "white" ships around the Galaxy change. There is a Single Player space game for the Mac called Escape Velocity: Nova in which through the course of your missions, you change the political landscape of the galaxy. I think it might be cool to implement a bunch of Post master missions that would allow individual pilots to change who they "work for"
A quest to get back to working for Lady Valarian, or the Black Sun, or Borvo, depending on your desires.
Secondly, it might be cool to have missions and content that would allow different pilot groups to change the way their squadron works throughout the Server. Similar to the CoA missions and plots, it would be interesting to have not just Rebel v Imperial competitions, but have the Neutral Pilots work to improve or eliminate the influence of certain gangs on the spacelanes. Part of this idea would be a may to turn in Prestige so that it counts toward your side's total for the month. At the end of the month the winning side is declared, and they gain some form of advantage for the next period, or until their side loses. This would end up being similar to the Planetary controlmeta game for the GCW on the ground, in terms of Reb/Imp. But for other groups like RSF and CorSec the changes could be a bit more esoteric.
Corsec- instead of choosing a final mission, theinternal power structure at CorSec could be fluid, and their support could shift from month to month.When moreImperial Prestige is turned in,Corsec becomes like the RSF. When more Rebel influence is exerted,then like the SA.
RSF v Hutts.BlockadingNaboo has been a happy pasttime for many groups over the years, maybe the Hutts decide they want a piece. If they win, then there are more Hutts throughout Naboo, and all Hutt employed Pilots get 1k credits per day in bonus profit dividends. When RSF wins, Naboo is returned toa more normal state, andHazard pay is given to its pilots.
Special High paying Duty Missions could become available tothe winning side for that month. Also, maybe there should be a contrubution from total space combat and prestige earned in that month, but have it count much less than any Prestige that is actually turned in in the name of the Cause. That way allPilots on that side can contribute, not just aces who are willing to give up PPs.
Sorry if I copycatted ideas. I haven't been reading this thread and it ballooned on me.
psikobunny
Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:43 pm
#69
I'd prefer having a novice Artisan repair an Airlock door and get the pump going in the next room. I always looked on Smugglers and DE having more Computer skills.
MonsofoLexius wrote:
How about requiring a novice artisan to gain access to the computer? Its simple, not too demanding like the DWB, and gives you a role, and reason to be kept alive?
I like that, added above
psikobunny
Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:56 pm
#70
A couple more notes for Monsofo's idea.
Things forProfessions to do:
- I really like the idea of begin able to get nice uber SW usable subcomponets with PPs, but why not also let SWs work on this ship to "dismantle" some systems to get parts like this out.
This salvage system could work for other classes too. Maybe have numerous "sub-missions" each picked by the different members of the Strike team, and control and change how the insides of the vette work? The mission storyline is dynamic that way. The 'vette gains or loses different rooms with items and rewards for all professions.
-Rare beasties to capture or sample for BE and CH,
-Passenger compartments, one of which could have the notes for a new song or dance by a famous (now dead) Composer/Choreographer? Only known about and findable by a Musician/Dancer.
-special ingredients, or clothign patterns for chefs or tailors... all sorts of way to put in goodies, and only accessible if they come along for the fun. Things to get them can only be done by those people, not just a schema picked up by a combat prof and sold to said noncombatant.
Also, Artisans and DE and SW could work together to help the Fighter escort. Repairing one or more of the Corvette's Turbolasers, powering it from the reactor on the MP ship, and manning it? How cool would it be to be on the other side of a 'vette cannon for a change folks?
I've been watching Firefly on DVD lately and a lot of these ideas pop into me as I watched them find and salvage wrecks,
FrankLee
Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:46 pm
#71
Outstanding ideas. And you could steal the general format for use on targets other than a SSD too. I love the idea of instanced areas that are difficult to access, but provide some very starwarsish content. Spice mines, space slugs' guts, battle platforms, space stations, capital ships, they could be added incrementally, and seem like a very good modularized addition.
It wouldn't take huge amounts of code that way to add significant chunks of content.
Along those lines, what about tools like the ground based RP-items (the droppable chest, capture-the-flag, talking NPC) in a space version? Limited-duration spacestations, programmable hyperspace buoys (to have your team drop out of h-space at a location chosen by you) gravity wells to keep folks from hopping... there are some great possibilities to be had.
It wouldn't take huge amounts of code that way to add significant chunks of content.
Along those lines, what about tools like the ground based RP-items (the droppable chest, capture-the-flag, talking NPC) in a space version? Limited-duration spacestations, programmable hyperspace buoys (to have your team drop out of h-space at a location chosen by you) gravity wells to keep folks from hopping... there are some great possibilities to be had.
Durik_Lakmor
Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:18 am
#72
FS Trade in.
NO, as stated many times over by the devs space and fs are unrelated in game and I think it should remain that way.
Easy to implment:
Prestige to Faction Points Trade In
Controlling Space Locations
PvP point system
Make the High End DeepSpace stuffs a challenge, the ISD should send wings of ties at me (that you have to disable the hanger of) it shouldn't be easy pickens with a little work
Long Term:
Rewards for PvP points
Player Owned Space Stations/Capitol ships
Post Master Story-driven missions from a ground person like our trainers with rewards.
New PVP Zones.
Lootable rare texture kits
new ships (POB and non, rare on both ends, master level)
NO, as stated many times over by the devs space and fs are unrelated in game and I think it should remain that way.
Easy to implment:
Prestige to Faction Points Trade In
Controlling Space Locations
PvP point system
Make the High End DeepSpace stuffs a challenge, the ISD should send wings of ties at me (that you have to disable the hanger of) it shouldn't be easy pickens with a little work
Long Term:
Rewards for PvP points
Player Owned Space Stations/Capitol ships
Post Master Story-driven missions from a ground person like our trainers with rewards.
New PVP Zones.
Lootable rare texture kits
new ships (POB and non, rare on both ends, master level)
Message Edited by Durik_Lakmor on 02-23-2005 11:46 PM
FrankLee
Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:13 pm
#73
MonsofoLexius wrote:Just for those still following along, for whatever the posters reasons, the following seem to be the best arguments against or things that would make a conversion difficult:
- We are a 0 skill point profession (only combat related profession)
- (while it is not a big one) We are the only profession that has a use for post master xp: Enter Deep Space
- Space xp can be too easy to get
- The previous-master XP bonus (I have done at least 2 masters on my 2 JTL toons) would be hard to account for (and we are the only profession that has a bonus)
So I can say that we allready many benefits for xp post master, and I think that there are far better things to offer up to dev's other then a FS conversion.
Doing some more research on point 4 above.
I am reading that the previous-master bonus applies only to Starship Combat Experience (only accrued prior to mastery), and does not change the rate at which you earn Prestige Points.
Have I been misinformed? I haven't dropped master yet, so I haven't re-mastered to know first hand.
MonsofoLexius
Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:16 pm
#74
FrankLee wrote:
MonsofoLexius wrote:
4. The previous-master XP bonus (I have done at least 2 masters on my 2 JTL toons) would be hard to account for (and we are the only profession that has a bonus)
Doing some more research on point 4 above.
I am reading that the previous-master bonus applies only to Starship Combat Experience (only accrued prior to mastery), and does not change the rate at which you earn Prestige Points.
Have I been misinformed? I haven't dropped master yet, so I haven't re-mastered to know first hand.
Ya know I think you are corrrect. Just checked myself. Good point. Keep shooting me down, only helps me better understand all the views......
FrankLee
Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:33 pm
#75
I'm not trying to shoot you down. You were the only one willing to debate the points. To my mind, the trade in makes sense, but I concede that I'm in the minority with that opinion.
I want to see the profession flourish. I'm not going anywhere whether the changes suit me or not, and the only way I can have any effect or influence is to be straightforward with the Correspondant.
So please, don't consider me to be adversarial.
I want to see the profession flourish. I'm not going anywhere whether the changes suit me or not, and the only way I can have any effect or influence is to be straightforward with the Correspondant.
So please, don't consider me to be adversarial.
MonsofoLexius
Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:39 pm
#76
FrankLee wrote:
I'm not trying to shoot you down. You were the only one willing to debate the points. To my mind, the trade in makes sense, but I concede that I'm in the minority with that opinion.
I want to see the profession flourish. I'm not going anywhere whether the changes suit me or not, and the only way I can have any effect or influence is to be straightforward with the Correspondant.
So please, don't consider me to be adversarial.
Never have FrankLee. I meant the "shoot me down" in a kinda joking manner. Always happy to chat/debate/talk/etc to get more insight in how the community feels. I am not a SOE Dev, but rather a conduit of information to them. You might even find me "debating" a view point I don't totallyagree with just to understand it better from time to time.
Happy to keep this going with you
ShadowfireKarp
Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:24 pm
#77
would be nice to disable and board multipassenger ships
kill off the crew, start the self destruct, if you dont undock both ships blow
but if they kill your crew they can scuttle your ship, would work with npc ships too
and prestige points could be used to buy loot, or you could only get certain missions after you get a certain amount of prestige
Karp (a.k.a. "Bubba Phett")
1st_Viduus
Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:54 am
#78
OK I didn't read all the ideas and I haven't posted in here yet, there are a plethora of grand ideas in the community already, I've seen some of them and like them a lot.
However, the more I think about this, the more it irks me that as an Imperial I can't get Imperial components.
It seems to me that there is no reason that I can't exchange Imperial Prestige for Imperial Military Grade Components, which are equal in quality to those which are given as "Reward Items".
Similar situation for both Privateers and Rebels; each faction is supposed to support it's pilots in some form, but truly they do not, after you've reached Ace.
Structure it like so:
2million (faction) Prestige Points per Certification Level per standard component.
- e.g.: Cert 1 Sienar Blaster =2 mill :: Cert 8 Sienar Blaster = 16 mill.
- These components would be on-par with current reward equipment, BUT would have no Reverse Engineering Level.
What you get is what you get, no improving.
What you get is what you get, no improving.
5 million (faction) Prestige Points per Certification Level per experimental component
(option) Plus 750 FP per level (privateer/neutral would you run into trouble here?)
(option) Plus 750 FP per level (privateer/neutral would you run into trouble here?)
- These components would be on-par with current reward equipment, BUT would have a Reverse Engineering Level.
- Need another Reward Shield? Engine? The engine will cost you 30 million Prestige, the shield will cost you 40 million prestige.
- Need another Reward Shield? Engine? The engine will cost you 30 million Prestige, the shield will cost you 40 million prestige.
Yes, this will put more "Uber" parts into the field of play, but "so what"? Frankly, it will encourage people to go into Deep Space and fight for their faction, grind out some PP & FP, and for those not comfortable in DS in other areas instead... but certainly get them flying.
"The prices are high"...? Perhaps.
We don't want to minimize the importance of the parts, nor make them "Easy Money" for people by claiming tons of them and re-selling them. Ideally, all 3 ships in one's datapad could eventually be completely Faction-Fitted... that is what I'd like to see.
(going to post this as a new thread as well, but put it here for MonsofoVidStalker).
Message Edited by 1st_Viduus on 02-25-2005 01:58 PM