Pilot Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Master Content and Prestige Points (updated 3/3/2005)
mezzepa
Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:41 pm
#53
well there is no doubt in my mind that prestige should be able to buy something special. not the FS xp though. like other ppl have mentioned schems that SW could use that wouldnt make SW components so sucky. or for instance make a mission that takes prestige to get. after all, the most prestigious pilots should get the most elite missions from their respective factions. maybe after u complete the mission u can buy a experiemental component witha coupleamazing stats that could be used in RE or an uber schem for shipwrights. maybe make it so u can only solo the mission, so u not only have to have alot of XP but u also have to be a good pilot with a good ship.
how about using a combination of Faction pts, prestige points, and being of certain rank so u could buy faction land starports.you could buy a landing pad with a space travel terminal so u can land your ships near ur house. for instance a rebel colonel gets the biggest, nicest looking one with a couple of rebel ships parked on the tarmac (just for looks), but basically a building with a space terminal in it, u could admin who can use it, or as a gift to your city. where as a Lt might only get a bare tarmac only usable to himself.
and master pilots definitely need something to do, all we do is grind FP, loot, or help out lower tier pilots. there really isnt any stable pvping. and whats with adding missions to space stations that are for lower tiered pilots?dont they have enough missions to do for master, why not add missions for ppl that dont have any missions to do(masters). seems a lil silly to me.
droid327
Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:30 am
#55
I'd like to see more "stuff" purchaseable for pilots. Not ships from other factions; that would reduce factions' differences purely topilot specials, since droid commands are tradable, and I think that'd mean the end of the Privateer profession since their big PvE ownage ships are really all they have over rebels, who also have /iff (neuts only decent command) as well as restock/repair and eshields. As a Rebel pilot though I'd love to buy a Krayt, just dont think that'd be equitable 
I like the idea of buying components for SW or REing...I'd love to be able to buy something that would let me change the firing graphics on crafted components, the red/green laser is just so boring compared to other graphics This could be worked into the ground game via the junk dealers....you'd trade on your prestige to gain access to the 'black market' where random components are available, changing over time and as people sell components to the chassis dealers. You'd spend more prestige to get a look at the "good" stuff, higher tier and better stats, and the more prestige you spend the better and more expensive the components would be. These could bethe same as lootable components in space, or there could be "special" parts you could only acquire via the black market.
This could be worked into the ground game via the junk dealers....you'd trade on your prestige to gain access to the 'black market' where random components are available, changing over time and as people sell components to the chassis dealers. You'd spend more prestige to get a look at the "good" stuff, higher tier and better stats, and the more prestige you spend the better and more expensive the components would be. These could bethe same as lootable components in space, or there could be "special" parts you could only acquire via the black market.I also like the idea of space rank, but not sure how this would work with ground rank, you cant have a commission in the Navy and Army at the same time
SanRa_Ledav
Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:27 am
#56
Two Words:
Kessel Run:
Using similar coding to the ground based race tracks, add a small
spaceport in kessel that you can communicate with, and have it give
you a set of waypoints throughout kessel. Convert the time into some
conversion factor (of course making sure that it is nigh impossible to
beat Han's score of "less than 12 parsecs" )
Give a badge: "...Has held the daily record for The Kessel Run"
In the other focus thread I posted several MP/JTL issues.
I'll center on the question in this thread.
Pilot XP and Prestige should convert to say 50:1
(I can earn xp a little more than 50% faster in space than on ground, so the conversion rate should reflect.)
Master pilots need to be able to fly ANY POB ship.
Continue to restrict the ability for Master pilot ownership,
but allow any master pilot in a ship, who has been added to the admin
(to prevent hijacking) to fly or use the ops chair.
Additional ships.
Should schematics be purchased via prestige/faction points?
I'd like to see the Lambda shuttle, YT-2400 and another rebel POB ship.
PVP:
This would be rather controversial, however I would think it to not be that difficult in terms of code,
but would require additional hardware.
Add in a PVP Space Zone/Planet, Like Deep Space.
The planet would ONLY be accessible via player transport.
(change so that non-jtl players can board POB ships, but cannot access the controls or turrets)
Basically you have battles to get to one of two stations to land, and the planet itself would have two starports, one on each side of the map.
The map would not even need to be more than one "zone" such as theed or coronet.
*OR*
Allow bases to be placed down in this "hot-zone" and the PVP planet would control how much of an Imperial or Rebel presence in normal space.
Kessel Run:
Using similar coding to the ground based race tracks, add a small
spaceport in kessel that you can communicate with, and have it give
you a set of waypoints throughout kessel. Convert the time into some
conversion factor (of course making sure that it is nigh impossible to
beat Han's score of "less than 12 parsecs" )
Give a badge: "...Has held the daily record for The Kessel Run"
In the other focus thread I posted several MP/JTL issues.
I'll center on the question in this thread.
Pilot XP and Prestige should convert to say 50:1
(I can earn xp a little more than 50% faster in space than on ground, so the conversion rate should reflect.)
Master pilots need to be able to fly ANY POB ship.
Continue to restrict the ability for Master pilot ownership,
but allow any master pilot in a ship, who has been added to the admin
(to prevent hijacking) to fly or use the ops chair.
Additional ships.
Should schematics be purchased via prestige/faction points?
I'd like to see the Lambda shuttle, YT-2400 and another rebel POB ship.
PVP:
This would be rather controversial, however I would think it to not be that difficult in terms of code,
but would require additional hardware.
Add in a PVP Space Zone/Planet, Like Deep Space.
The planet would ONLY be accessible via player transport.
(change so that non-jtl players can board POB ships, but cannot access the controls or turrets)
Basically you have battles to get to one of two stations to land, and the planet itself would have two starports, one on each side of the map.
The map would not even need to be more than one "zone" such as theed or coronet.
*OR*
Allow bases to be placed down in this "hot-zone" and the PVP planet would control how much of an Imperial or Rebel presence in normal space.
FrankLee
Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:47 pm
#57
I would support a prestige for FS trade in. The majority of criticism of the idea seems to float to one of a few camps:
Jedi ruined the ground game, they'd ruin space.
Subjective assessment. CM's ruined the ground game for me, and so did CH; neither of them, nor the Jedi, have any special privelage (or relevance) in space. Jedi, or any other class, receive NO BENEFIT from any powers they have in space. FS trade in for Prestige has virtually nothing to do with space; I earn it there, but I spend it elsewhere. I would NOT support the FS branch of vehicle control being applied to space.
Space population is small, let's keep it that way.
Small space population will lead to a proportionally small chunk of developer time. I'd like to see Space fully populated, and fully functional.
Next thing you know, they'll be wanting (insert ship or power here)
That's not the scope of the question, although you might include it in your answer. The question was about present FS/EXP conversion. I wouldn't want to see any powers, benefits, or special Jedi-spaceframes coming from such a modification. I would not want the drawbacks, as a Jedi, from having powers bleed over into space.
Other things should come first, before time is devoted to FS-development.
In this, I am in agreement with the consensus. This is not a big issue for me, and I'd gladly see it set aside for a year while new areas or items were developed.
Jedi ruined the ground game, they'd ruin space.
Subjective assessment. CM's ruined the ground game for me, and so did CH; neither of them, nor the Jedi, have any special privelage (or relevance) in space. Jedi, or any other class, receive NO BENEFIT from any powers they have in space. FS trade in for Prestige has virtually nothing to do with space; I earn it there, but I spend it elsewhere. I would NOT support the FS branch of vehicle control being applied to space.
Space population is small, let's keep it that way.
Small space population will lead to a proportionally small chunk of developer time. I'd like to see Space fully populated, and fully functional.
Next thing you know, they'll be wanting (insert ship or power here)
That's not the scope of the question, although you might include it in your answer. The question was about present FS/EXP conversion. I wouldn't want to see any powers, benefits, or special Jedi-spaceframes coming from such a modification. I would not want the drawbacks, as a Jedi, from having powers bleed over into space.
Other things should come first, before time is devoted to FS-development.
In this, I am in agreement with the consensus. This is not a big issue for me, and I'd gladly see it set aside for a year while new areas or items were developed.
Vegitaa
Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:16 am
#58
I am against trading Presitige for FS exp. I am currently (very slowly thanks to JTL) grinding FS on the ground now. Space is my escape from that. Keep that aspect of the grond game and JTL seperate please.
Force Sensitive skills should not apply to JTL because it is an advantage that is only granted through the ground game. Lets say you get a +5 to your stats due to Vehicular Control, that means you get a bonus that only someone who has FS skills can counter. Current;y, if my engine is better than yours you have every oppurtunity to remedy that situation without spending weeks grinding Pikets.
Prestige Points, my personal opinion is give Ace pilot's the ability to spend these on a one-time use schematic for another faction based ship (actually 2).
For example you have the choice as an Imperial to spend 10million prestige point to buy a Lambda Shuttle schematic, or 15million prestige to buy a TIE Defender Schematic. (Basically give each faction an additional iconic POB and Fighter)
Rebels could grab the transport from Hoth (throw a couple of weapons on it) and another fighter style. Give Nuetrals the YT2400 and another fighter option. Etc....
Increase how many ships we can have in our Datapads. 3 is ok.. kinda tight in my opinion. Bring this up to 4 or 5. Currently I have my Deci, Firespray, and TIE Intercepter.... I'd like to have my Yacht and a Lambda shuttle to enhance my little fleet.
Docking Abilities. I'd would like for the ability to dock with POB ships added. Example. I'm in space, I have a crew of 3 on my Deci, obviously thats a light crew. My guildie logs on, decides he wants to come help but we're already underway. He jumps in his TIE, flys out, /dock, I type /accept, His TIE Docks with my Deci he loads on board, then the TIE goes into his datapad. He cannot relaunch. Or..... optionally, I'm flying my Deci, we pull up alongside a Sorosub. Turns out they're throwing a party. I target them and type /dock, their captain types /accept. now my ship stays alongsid etheir's while me and my crew board their ship. Party ensues....
Master Content.
First off, the person who gave you your Corvette Mission should be able to give you duty missions in either kessel or deep space. Period, just makes sense.
The Board a Corvette idea you put out was wonderful and I'd love to do that. A few issues on that though. NO SBD's, NO BattleDroids! Thats right, you board that vette and it's nothing but Rebel NPC's none of this Episode 1 crap. Instead of the Rebel version taking them aboard a corvette, how about insidethe Star Destroyer? (I remember hearing somewhere about a crashed ISD themepark coming... might be able to use their concept models or something)
FIX PVP! I want to see more people in space and especially more willing to PvP. PvP is few and far between right now. You go declare, get all ready, go to DS..... *chirp* *chirp*...... This one shot kill stuff has got to stop. There needs to be more incentive or encouragement to PvP in space. I will not assume to give solutions on this one, just refer to Vid's posts on the subject.
EDIT: One thing I would like to add. Capturable Space Zones. Much like what is being pruposed on the ground. These should be in every zone. PvP still optional. But give us a moving target. One of the things that made other online flight-sims successful is that bases/space stations could be captured and controlled. Give the pilots on the winning side some incentive to gain that control. Make it so you have to mix ship types in order to capture a base. (Only a longprobe/bomber has the ability to scramble the tower's communications... etc...) These Stations should ALWAYS be vulnerable. You just finished capturing the base and 30 Reb's come from nowhere to take it back... etc...
/salute
Message Edited by Vegitaa on 02-23-2005 11:03 AM
CNevyn
Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:04 pm
#59
Eilla wrote:
1. xp vs. gated missions. You should be able to choose your route tomaster pilot. Up the xp requirement to 15 million and offer a choice: vette or xp vendetta.
Sorry but I'm completely against this one. There are many, many master pilots out there now who wear the helmet and jacket, but simply put, cannot fly. Removing the mission gates, and allowing pure XP to qualify for master will make it possible for even more of these sort of pilots to advance beyond their skill simply by endlessly blasting lower tiered ships. The gates are there to encourage pilots to cooperate, or to improve their skills to a point they don't require assistance. Hopefully a bit of both. They can be done. (As you proved completing your T4 exit mission. Congrats, BTW.) They should be challenging, or they aren't valued, they aren't remembered.
WTS
space is way too empty. i would like for "everyone and their mothers" to come to space. more people in space might mean more interesting pvp in deep space.
I agree with ajag on this one, while I'd love to see more pilots in space, I don't think that is worth "Opening the door" for them to cry "Nerf!"
I would support a trade-in of PP for exceptional parts, or schematics.. MP ship accessories, clothing.. it still galls me that I missed some of my reward components on my way up, perhaps something akin to those? Really would rather not drop pilot to climb it again just for those parts..
I'd like to see new/alternate forms of piloting communication. Perhaps cantinas/lounges dedicated to serving pilots. Established places to congregate. An in game forum where pilots can post about requests and missions. (I've heard it said a large percentage don't or can't access these forums)
My 2 creds
There's more, but I need more coffee.
Ducimus
Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:54 pm
#60
>>First off a question: Force Sensitive Trade in? Yes or No and why.
No. Absolultely NOT. Any trade in, at any ratio is nothing more than making Jedi's grind infinately easier. They want pilot xp converstion for an easy/fun way to get around the jedi xp grind they hate so much, and pilot xp is ridiclously abundant. With a 3 X master pilot bonus, a gunboat which takes me about 30 seconds or less to kill is something like a little over 100K xp a pop.
If jedi want their instawins they can do it on the ground where it belongs. No glowboats in space thank you very much.
No. Absolultely NOT. Any trade in, at any ratio is nothing more than making Jedi's grind infinately easier. They want pilot xp converstion for an easy/fun way to get around the jedi xp grind they hate so much, and pilot xp is ridiclously abundant. With a 3 X master pilot bonus, a gunboat which takes me about 30 seconds or less to kill is something like a little over 100K xp a pop.
If jedi want their instawins they can do it on the ground where it belongs. No glowboats in space thank you very much.
Gekok
Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:07 pm
#61
>>First off a question: Force Sensitive Trade in? Yes or No and why.
Can we kill jedi in space now and the jedi will lose exp or skills on the ground? The answer to that question is the answer to yours.
If your going to start blending "ground" exp with space exp, jedi should be fair game and have it affect them on the ground. Keep the 2 distinct and seperate.
Can we kill jedi in space now and the jedi will lose exp or skills on the ground? The answer to that question is the answer to yours.
If your going to start blending "ground" exp with space exp, jedi should be fair game and have it affect them on the ground. Keep the 2 distinct and seperate.
FrankLee
Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:53 pm
#62
Gekok wrote:
>>First off a question: Force Sensitive Trade in? Yes or No and why.
Can we kill jedi in space now and the jedi will lose exp or skills on the ground? The answer to that question is the answer to yours.
If your going to start blending "ground" exp with space exp, jedi should be fair game and have it affect them on the ground. Keep the 2 distinct and seperate.
You can kill Jedi in space, in the same way you can kill anyone else. Presently nobody loses anything to death in space, not buffs, not experience. Presently noone gains anything in space from anything except space skills. No FS skills have _any_ bearing on Piloting skill.
Jedi are not overly concerned with FS Exp, because... they're already Jedi. Nothing will change that.
What I'm seeing time and again is a group of people dissatisfied with a ground based profession, so they wish to 'punish' that same profession in space. It's a shortsighted attitude. It's espoused by some of the same people that wonder why space seems so dead, why they can't get friends to help with missions, and why they can't find any PVP. Let me clue you in: anything you do to limit the participation of others in space, will ultimately hurt space. Fewer people in space will translate to less development time allocated to space. Fewer people in space will translate to fewer non-AI encounters. Fewer people will mean artificial monopoly of shipwrighting industry, because fewer shipwrights will be required to cater to everyone. Little or no crossover from space to ground for any reason simply increases the segregation of the two halves of play, and gets space shoved on to the back burner. Nothing to spend Prestige on will yield master pilots who won't fly anymore because you can only kill the same few types of starships a few thousand times before you start to grow weary of them.
As I've said before: I'll keep playing space because I like it, not because I seek some kind of reward. If you want to make the argument that _other_ things should be investigated _before_ prestige-to-FS conversion, I'm with you. This thinly-veiled petulance about Jedi is misplaced however, and will end up hurting space as a venue for further play and development.
MonsofoLexius
Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:03 pm
#63
Just for those still following along, for whatever the posters reasons, the following seem to be the best arguments against or things that would make a conversion difficult:
- We are a 0 skill point profession (only combat related profession)
- (while it is not a big one) We are the only profession that has a use for post master xp: Enter Deep Space
- Space xp can be too easy to get
- The previous-master XP bonus (I have done at least 2 masters on my 2 JTL toons) would be hard to account for (and we are the only profession that has a bonus)
So I can say that we allready many benefits for xp post master, and I think that there are far better things to offer up to dev's other then a FS conversion.
FrankLee
Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:29 pm
#64
MonsofoLexius wrote:Just for those still following along, for whatever the posters reasons, the following seem to be the best arguments against or things that would make a conversion difficult:
- We are a 0 skill point profession (only combat related profession)
- (while it is not a big one) We are the only profession that has a use for post master xp: Enter Deep Space
- Space xp can be too easy to get
- The previous-master XP bonus (I have done at least 2 masters on my 2 JTL toons) would be hard to account for (and we are the only profession that has a bonus)
So I can say that we allready many benefits for xp post master, and I think that there are far better things to offer up to dev's other then a FS conversion.
To respectfully discuss:
1. No SP expenditure is required to throw a grenade, which appears to be a going concern with FS accumulation. Politician XP converts to FS, and that profession requires no SP expenditure. I do agree that this is still the most relevant of concerns however.
2. All professions other than pilot use post-master exp as FS conversion, so they all have post-master uses. Yes FS points are a voluntary event, but so is post-master use of Prestige.
3. Agreed, but the FS conversion rate can be made difficult to account for it. There are already several conversion rates in use.
4. Also agreed, but since it is obviously a tracked metric, this should be a surmountable obstacle. At worst, the conversion rate could be made stiff enough to account for multiple-mastery.
Tumbler2002
Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:59 pm
#65
FS Conversion:
It makes no sense not to have a way to transfer space xp to fs xp. Time on ground=Time in space. Jedi characters are a part of the game all players want to experience. It takes time to get xp up in space and that time should be just as good as the time someone spends on the ground killing a million creatures.
"Space xp can be too easy to get" - That is the pot calling the kettle black. There is nothing hard about getting FS xp, it just requires time. You stand around and drop grenades all day. You can make a macro that will do most the work for you. No macro's can manage combat in space. Time is the key component here, whether it's in space or on the ground, if the players put in the time they should get the xp.
Master content-
Add 3 more zones like deep space. Give each zone a theme (purpose) and make capital ships double as space stations. (IE you can declare/repair/spawn after death/and get missions).
Example:
Black Star - Rebels have the Nebulan B frigates as their cap ship. Cap ship can repair(100%), give duty missions, declare overt, and players will spawn under it after death. Imperial have a space station, same features as the Rebel Frigate. Rebel frigate will launch attacks on imperial space station. (3 Gunboats with escorts fighters spawn and fly in formation toward the imperial base. These ships should attack any non friendly players that are in range but not deviate from course. Gunboats are immune to space station blasters. Space station is immune to player attacks. If gunboats are destroyed and imperial players who did damage to them get a rare loot drop and appropriate xp. If gunboats succeed in their mission rebel players in the zone get a rare loot drop and appropriate xp. Spawn should have 1 hour timer. Imperial space station would spawn 10 min after destruction. Rebel frigate can be disabled (all it's subsystems destroyed) but will be repaired 100% ten minutes later. If disabled/destroyed all services/ability to spawn in zone are disabled until it regenerates/repairs.
Fire over Tattoine - Zone is empty, Tattoine is background. Star destroyer on one end, rebel corvette on the other. Cap ships have same functions as above. Corvette will be below the ISD and traveling in reverse, (Should take about 5 min to reach the ISD). Once in range of the ISD corvette comes to full stop, the 2 ships exchange fire for 10-15 min. If the ISD is not destroy'd then the corvette has a reactor explosion and starts in reverse, once directly under the ISD, it stops, then moves upwards into the hangar bay. Once in the hangar bay Imperials have won the battle. All imperial players get rare loot drop + appropriate xp, if ISD is destroyed at any time Rebel players who caused damage have won and get a rare loot drop and appropriate xp. If corvette is destroyed the battle is a draw.
I think you get the idea. Both expamples are things that can be added with the items in game at this time. Since we can't really have an ISD chase anything down we have to move the corvette backwards so that the isd appears to be overtaking it. If tattione is in the background it should give the appearance of movement.
It makes no sense not to have a way to transfer space xp to fs xp. Time on ground=Time in space. Jedi characters are a part of the game all players want to experience. It takes time to get xp up in space and that time should be just as good as the time someone spends on the ground killing a million creatures.
"Space xp can be too easy to get" - That is the pot calling the kettle black. There is nothing hard about getting FS xp, it just requires time. You stand around and drop grenades all day. You can make a macro that will do most the work for you. No macro's can manage combat in space. Time is the key component here, whether it's in space or on the ground, if the players put in the time they should get the xp.
Master content-
Add 3 more zones like deep space. Give each zone a theme (purpose) and make capital ships double as space stations. (IE you can declare/repair/spawn after death/and get missions).
Example:
Black Star - Rebels have the Nebulan B frigates as their cap ship. Cap ship can repair(100%), give duty missions, declare overt, and players will spawn under it after death. Imperial have a space station, same features as the Rebel Frigate. Rebel frigate will launch attacks on imperial space station. (3 Gunboats with escorts fighters spawn and fly in formation toward the imperial base. These ships should attack any non friendly players that are in range but not deviate from course. Gunboats are immune to space station blasters. Space station is immune to player attacks. If gunboats are destroyed and imperial players who did damage to them get a rare loot drop and appropriate xp. If gunboats succeed in their mission rebel players in the zone get a rare loot drop and appropriate xp. Spawn should have 1 hour timer. Imperial space station would spawn 10 min after destruction. Rebel frigate can be disabled (all it's subsystems destroyed) but will be repaired 100% ten minutes later. If disabled/destroyed all services/ability to spawn in zone are disabled until it regenerates/repairs.
Fire over Tattoine - Zone is empty, Tattoine is background. Star destroyer on one end, rebel corvette on the other. Cap ships have same functions as above. Corvette will be below the ISD and traveling in reverse, (Should take about 5 min to reach the ISD). Once in range of the ISD corvette comes to full stop, the 2 ships exchange fire for 10-15 min. If the ISD is not destroy'd then the corvette has a reactor explosion and starts in reverse, once directly under the ISD, it stops, then moves upwards into the hangar bay. Once in the hangar bay Imperials have won the battle. All imperial players get rare loot drop + appropriate xp, if ISD is destroyed at any time Rebel players who caused damage have won and get a rare loot drop and appropriate xp. If corvette is destroyed the battle is a draw.
I think you get the idea. Both expamples are things that can be added with the items in game at this time. Since we can't really have an ISD chase anything down we have to move the corvette backwards so that the isd appears to be overtaking it. If tattione is in the background it should give the appearance of movement.