Pilot Archive

Thread: UNBALANCED SHIP DISCUSSION

Catman-Does
Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:03 am
#53

In regards to POB ships; I keep seeing people say "make the guns do loads of damage" which is nice... but 4-5k damage is enough imo what isn't enough is the firing rate. POB weaponary should be extreme rapid fire to help combat the "issues" with the turrets.

Up the refire rate of the elite POB components to something like 0.100 and you've already trippled the damage output as well as it's effectiveness against fast moving targets.





>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Catman Does Catius
Dark Jedi Imperial Colonel Droid Engineer & Shipwright
>>>Leader of STEALTH, an Imperial/Neutral Guild on Naboo<<<
>>Shopping Centre -7345 1060 --- Offers Vendor -7349 1054<<
"So instead of sticking to the thing that our players really love,
we start changing it. And now we?re alienating the players
playing our game, losing our subscribers."- Jeff Hickman

JanuHull
Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:09 am
#54






ShaiLyn wrote:





Washell wrote:






ShaiLyn wrote:

Basically, ROTW gave a boost to some ships to make them more viable in PVP. I would like to see similar boosts to some of the other ships now. The ROTW method was to just up the mass on certain ships, which worked great for them.





We had a nice balance pre-RotW. Lets bring 6 to 9 ships in line with that balance instead of making heavy versions ofabout 30 ships and thus rushing headlong to a space CU.








That balance is long gone. Adapt to the new balance or you become extinct.






I have adapted. I can kill you sorry sad sack JSF jockeys in A-Wings, A-Wings with NO droid overloads, X-Wings, Advanced X-Wings, Heavy Z-95s, and I'm working on the Nova and Y-Wing Longprobe.


Keep flying your little talent compensator, and I'll send your pathetic kind crying to the space station every time.



Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA

"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

Raja_Asenn
Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:43 am
#55






Julak wrote:


Excellent, Guyvil or whatever his name is put it perfectly, you can do the quests also. Anyways I was at school so I kind of had to russh through my previous post, so here goes /rant. Ok all you yuppies(i use that term loosely) out there who claim that the JSF and Bel ar horrible becfause some newb decides to go get it and beats all you more experienced players, well then you suck. Because really, if oyu were that good he wouldnt have gotten you, and if oyur going to blame his ship, i.e. it can turn faster blah blah blah, you got issues. Survival of the fittest. It is balanced though, i mean i get the JSF (even though its so horribly unblalcned)and come after a gunboat(even though its so horribly unblalcned), its gonna take me a while to kill it(even though its so horribly unbalacned), now all you people who beleive that the heavy x is the next best thing to air say that the heavy x is a perferctly fine ship, now say oyu go up against a gunboat now hmmmmm, you have 2 lvl 10 guns and 1 lvl 8 and lvl 8 shields with lvl 10 engine, you kill that gunboat without battin an eye, but yet you claim its @#$% dont stink.... wanna explain that to me?I dont get it, if it canturn on a dime you hate it, but ifit can pack 3 guns in it andis the most powerful POS ever you will defend it to your grave. I mean come on, its balanced, jsut look at it, hyper manueverable but you can maybe squeeze a lvl 10 gun in there if oyu wanna almost no rrom to put anyhting in there, or you can take the one that puts 2 in there without blinking, what the ^$#@ do you not get about it being balanced. Oh i hear you already, but it outturns us cause my lvl 10 engine with YPR of 88 cant beat it, no, you cnat beat it, the ship and the components make the pilot. For example my frined and i decided to duel in space the other day now he was in his JSF and me in my regualr tie interceptor, you now what i beat him. know why? cause i didnt ban him from space cause oh my god he flies an unblalced ship!!!!!!!!!!!! i beat him fair and square, now this guy keep in mind almsot completely soloed SS, and i'm only a 3344. so for al you people out there who claim that the heavy x isnt unbalanced, i want you to think about what makes the JSF so unbalanced, is it becasue even though you have a 100000000 YPR engine the guy can still beat you? if so then you need to learn to fly YOUR unbalanced ship. and by the way, when tomo and the other guy beat the tier 5 duty misison not one person gave tomo crap about using the JSF. again i state, "Fight Fire with Fire" you know why? because when your fire out burns his, it means you really are better.





I tried to read this. I really did.







spaceTribe.org - pilot chat, loot database analysis and player profiles

"That’s the danger of a righteous cause. You rail against the night so much you become consumed with the task of it, until you have nothing else." -- Sean Sellers
Julak
Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:37 am
#56

yea i know its jumbled but long story short, people who belive the Heavy X is balanced and the JSF isnt, i'm calling jasck @$$es



"The only Imp I regret never meeting was Grand Admiral Thrawn, he was also the only one I was ever sad to see go." Talax Shrad
MachineZed
Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:56 am
#57






Raja_Asenn wrote:





Julak wrote:
yea i know its jumbled but long story short, people who belive the Heavy X is balanced and the JSF isnt, i'm calling jasck @$$es






Ah, well.


PvE: who cares. A competent pilot can dominate the environment in anything, the Heavy X just makes it faster.


PvP:If you're putting the JSF and heavy X on the same shelf, I'd like to challenge you to a money duel. I'll fly the JSF...







I would also like to reiterate, there is a trade off to using the Heavy X, its the large hit box.


Or would you like to compare the Heavy X to the Rhix, that the freelance pilots get. The Rhixis a 190k mass vs the 180k, both with 3 guns.


There is no downside to the actis, and bellbulub, small hit boxes, large mass, 2 guns, and manuverability to rival the squint.




§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
X Machine'Zed X

Obsidian Dagger Squadron

CityHall
Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:27 am
#58

Again the Heavy X-Wing is only as nasty as it's pilot and his loot sense... The JSF is almost a 3 month RE project in a box... then you and an experinced pilot to it and it gets bad in a hurry.

I guess what I am saying is that a JSF requires very little skill to outfit, where even with the mass aforded by the heavy W-Wing the smart pilot has more things to worry about in outfiting one... armor, shields, (because you ,will get hit) weapon timeing, capacitor drain, reactor power and the list goes on... even still most if not all Heavy X-Wings are set up for PvE as that is where the chassis excels.

Another aside the X-Wings and ARC-170 are veriable configuration craft, both lose quite a bit of speed when they have there S-Foils open (90% of the time... and always in combat) I am not sure about the JSF (as tecnicaly it is to) but the pilot FAQ does not list two speeds (typo?).



_____________________________

Lowca: Oiboim Wane

Play the game or don't it is what it is and will never be what it was for better or worse. I intend to play the game as long as it is fun, that does not make me a fan boy of brown noser. I know the game has it's flaws, but it serves no purpose to dwell in the past.
rogue_eight
Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:38 am
#59

Nope, no difference in speed in JSF with wings 'open'. Just a pretty little effect from what I can see.
CityHall
Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:41 am
#60

Thanks, don't have one my self (might do it for giggles if I go Imp to do a pilot squadron at some point... but not likely)



_____________________________

Lowca: Oiboim Wane

Play the game or don't it is what it is and will never be what it was for better or worse. I intend to play the game as long as it is fun, that does not make me a fan boy of brown noser. I know the game has it's flaws, but it serves no purpose to dwell in the past.
xTekx
Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:04 am
#61


Oh boy. I go hunting for 4 days and come back to this. Guess i'll throw my 2 cents in the pot now.


Lets see... where to begin....


Advanced(Heavy)Xwing: That ship is out of balance. 180k of mass on an xwing with no downside to manuverability makes it that way. What point is there to fly the regular xwing now? I still fly the regular however. But when you can put in a lvl 10 engine, lvl 8 shield, 3 guns, and armor there is no trade off. Yeah, it's a big target... but come on. My beef is that the advanced(heavy) xwing made the regular(100k mass) xwing obsolete. Why fly the regular when you can have 80k more mass to work with and no negative effects to handling? The adv xwing is now the supreme fighter for PvE if you're Rebel. No use flying the Bwing with it's 4 guns and 2 missle slots. Get all the manuverability, firepower, and defence in one advanced Xwing.


Heavy Z95, Heavy TF, Heavy Scyk: Only thing I see wrong with these is they have maybe 20-30k too much mass. Yeah, it's only got one gun point and one missle point, but the ships are small and can be tough to hit. But 95k mass just seems a bit high. Overall though, these are the most balanced ROTW ships out there.


RGI: Need I say more? Ship is bugged. If you don't believe it then I suggest you go do some testing and see for yourself. I had to prove it to someone last week(or was it the week before?). I had to have him sit broadside to me at 50m and let me shoot him in a regular Interceptor. One shot he exploded. Then he came back in the RGI and I did the same thing. 4 shots went through him before I hit him. And he was the same distance away, and broadside again.


JSF/B22: These two ships just take the cake. You have your manuverability, you have your tiny a$$ profile, you have mass to put in just about what you want, you have 2 gun ports, and 1 missle port. Can you say no downside to flying these? Hard to hit because it's so damm small yet has the mass almost to that of an xwing. If that doesn't make you think wth? then your logic curcuits are fried. The awing can be a tough ship to hit. But it only has 65k mass, is bigger then the JSF/B22, and only has 1... yes 1... gun to use. I'll leave you to figure it out... pretty obvious to me.


Arc Fighter: I don't know much about this ship. I have yet to get it and I haven't seen it in space much. So I couldn't say if it's balanced or not. However someone did say that for it to be truely effective you need a pilot and 2 gunners. I believe that statement. Hmm..maybe i'll go get that and give that a try on sundays muahahaha


Vaksai(sp): Personally, I think this is an ugly a$$ ship. lol From my experience with them is that they are on the same playing field as the heavy starter ships, only it has more mass. Maybe not the same turning rates as the heavies, but still good. It's a big flying barn to me and hence that is it's downside. But again, I don't have too much experience with them because not too many people fly them on Bloodfin. Atleast when I fly.


I would like to quote Nesanya. He made a statement that pretty much sums up the problem with RoTW ships.







Nesanyawrote:

When you can get everything you want out of one chassis, that's unbalanced. It has nothing to do with older pilots being set in their ways.






The bit in Yellow hits the problem on the nail. No one could have said it better. Maybe i'll put that in my sig....


And the bit in green tells you that it's not about nerfing, or failing to adapt, or being "set" in our ways. It's about trying to fix a balance that was there pre-RoTW. It's about having as fair a fight as possible. I could care less if I die. But I as sure as hell want it to be a fair fight where I have a chance. If I lose it's because theh other person was better then me or I made a mistake. If I die over and over, then that person is A LOT better then me and I still have things to learn(yes I still do). But I will know that it's not the ship that gave him those skills, it will have been the person behind the computer screen that beat me. That is balance.




__________________________
xTekx-Omega 9

333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333
333333333333333333333333333333

Spacey
Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:02 pm
#62






MachineZed wrote:






Raja_Asenn wrote:





Julak wrote:
yea i know its jumbled but long story short, people who belive the Heavy X is balanced and the JSF isnt, i'm calling jasck @$$es






Ah, well.


PvE: who cares. A competent pilot can dominate the environment in anything, the Heavy X just makes it faster.


PvP:If you're putting the JSF and heavy X on the same shelf, I'd like to challenge you to a money duel. I'll fly the JSF...







I would also like to reiterate, there is a trade off to using the Heavy X, its the large hit box.


Or would you like to compare the Heavy X to the Rhix, that the freelance pilots get. The Rhixis a 190k mass vs the 180k, both with 3 guns.


There is no downside to the actis, and bellbulub, small hit boxes, large mass, 2 guns, and manuverability to rival the squint.






I disagree - the JSF/GSF are, imo, far more manuverable than any squint.


Squints handling takes a serious hit when you slow down - the Trigraph fighters seem to handle good no matter what % your throttle is at.








---------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajha Al'Rajhiim
The Outer Rim Trading Company

*Buys Shadowbrak a beer*

Support the Pilot's Code of Conduct
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ngepilot&message.id=52737
Scoser
Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:38 pm
#63

Ahh, good old TIE Fighter (the game) maneuverability. No matter what speed you're going, you'll turn at the same rate.



-------------------
Sli'co "Chefzilla" Scoser: Chilly's Resident Space God
Gul'jaq Scoser: Chilly's Resident GCW Whiner and Forum Retard
Oc'lis Scoser: Chilly's Resident Crappy Unused Loot Farmer
Vendor = EHDC: Aerospace Industries tent in Sanctum Malleus, Talus, Chilastra (2403, -3581)

I've got a fever, and the only cure is more DoTs!!!
Shiv-ron
Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:56 pm
#64

Personaly I love my Actis, I wouldnt ever play this game if I couldnt fly it. I think the way the JSF and the belb are layed out are perfect. I agree with you about the unbalancing effect though but I wouldnt say nerf the actis and belb, I think all the other ships need a nice upgrade to compete.

Just an example, I would think the bigger ships like the YT 1300 should be able to take ALOT more punishment before getting hurt. Maybe make it so you have to destroy ALL of there components before you can hurt there chasis.

This is just my opinion but I think all the ships should be faster and more agile too. But I like fast paced kill fast or be killed fast
Washell
Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:01 pm
#65






Shiv-ron wrote:

I think all the other ships need a nice upgrade to compete.




That's what they did in the groundgame armor -> buffs -> weapon dmg -> foods (not in correct order) and ended in the CU. We haven't had any balancing in space yet. We've had 1 set of ships brought into the gamemost of whichwere outside the established baseline and a lot of us would rather bite the bullet and get a "nerf" then see JTL go down the drain until only a space CU can fix it. One ship that is inside the baseline has a bugged hitbox, the other has guns sofar apart an ISD can park in the center.


Ifthey improve the old ships now, what happens in the next expansion where SOE makes the samemistake and addsa number ofships that are better then anything we have now? Rebalance everything, again?



Page 5 of 10