Pilot Archive

Thread: UNBALANCED SHIP DISCUSSION

Washell
Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:10 pm
#40




ShaiLyn wrote:

Basically, ROTW gave a boost to some ships to make them more viable in PVP. I would like to see similar boosts to some of the other ships now. The ROTW method was to just up the mass on certain ships, which worked great for them.




We had a nice balance pre-RotW. Lets bring 6 to 9 ships in line with that balance instead of making heavy versions ofabout 30 ships and thus rushing headlong to a space CU.


ShaiLyn
Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:39 pm
#41




Washell wrote:





ShaiLyn wrote:

Basically, ROTW gave a boost to some ships to make them more viable in PVP. I would like to see similar boosts to some of the other ships now. The ROTW method was to just up the mass on certain ships, which worked great for them.




We had a nice balance pre-RotW. Lets bring 6 to 9 ships in line with that balance instead of making heavy versions ofabout 30 ships and thus rushing headlong to a space CU.







That balance is long gone. Adapt to the new balance or you become extinct.



Starsider
Xova Qiin - Nightsister Outcast

Corbantis
Silhouette - Twi'lek Shipwright

Kettemoor
Kiamata - Imperial Pilot

...has mastered the Pilot profession
Halyn
Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:43 pm
#42




ShaiLyn wrote:




Washell wrote:





ShaiLyn wrote:

Basically, ROTW gave a boost to some ships to make them more viable in PVP. I would like to see similar boosts to some of the other ships now. The ROTW method was to just up the mass on certain ships, which worked great for them.




We had a nice balance pre-RotW. Lets bring 6 to 9 ships in line with that balance instead of making heavy versions ofabout 30 ships and thus rushing headlong to a space CU.







That balance is long gone. Adapt to the new balance or you become extinct.




The problem is that the "new balance" isn't balanced at all, either for PvE or PvP.




Halyn Lance -- Rara Avis Flight School
Common sense is highly uncommon.
...has mastered the Pilot profession.
"I'll type this slowly so even Imperials can understand..."--Michael Stackpole, RS IRC
Washell
Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:47 pm
#43




ShaiLyn wrote:


That balance is long gone. Adapt to the new balance or you become extinct.



This is an MMO, things change. If they change the ships, I'm in favor of adjusting them to the old balance. To tip the odds in favor of my preference I post inthreads like these. Meanwhile,I adapt. If they don't change it, so be it. If they change all the ships to the new "balance", well, I'll probably go "extinct"

Vulthoom
Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:54 pm
#44

Excellent, Guyvil or whatever his name is put it perfectly, you can do the quests also. Anyways I was at school so I kind of had to russh through my previous post, so here goes /rant. Ok all you yuppies(i use that term loosely) out there who claim that the JSF and Bel ar horrible becfause some newb decides to go get it and beats all you more experienced players, well then you suck. Because really, if oyu were that good he wouldnt have gotten you, and if oyur going to blame his ship, i.e. it can turn faster blah blah blah, you got issues. Survival of the fittest. It is balanced though, i mean i get the JSF (even though its so horribly unblalcned)and come after a gunboat(even though its so horribly unblalcned), its gonna take me a while to kill it(even though its so horribly unbalacned), now all you people who beleive that the heavy x is the next best thing to air say that the heavy x is a perferctly fine ship, now say oyu go up against a gunboat now hmmmmm, you have 2 lvl 10 guns and 1 lvl 8 and lvl 8 shields with lvl 10 engine, you kill that gunboat without battin an eye, but yet you claim its @#$% dont stink.... wanna explain that to me?I dont get it, if it canturn on a dime you hate it, but ifit can pack 3 guns in it andis the most powerful POS ever you will defend it to your grave. I mean come on, its balanced, jsut look at it, hyper manueverable but you can maybe squeeze a lvl 10 gun in there if oyu wanna almost no rrom to put anyhting in there, or you can take the one that puts 2 in there without blinking, what the ^$#@ do you not get about it being balanced. Oh i hear you already, but it outturns us cause my lvl 10 engine with YPR of 88 cant beat it, no, you cnat beat it, the ship and the components make the pilot. For example my frined and i decided to duel in space the other day now he was in his JSF and me in my regualr tie interceptor, you now what i beat him. know why? cause i didnt ban him from space cause oh my god he flies an unblalced ship!!!!!!!!!!!! i beat him fair and square, now this guy keep in mind almsot completely soloed SS, and i'm only a 3344. so for al you people out there who claim that the heavy x isnt unbalanced, i want you to think about what makes the JSF so unbalanced, is it becasue even though you have a 100000000 YPR engine the guy can still beat you? if so then you need to learn to fly YOUR unbalanced ship. and by the way, when tomo and the other guy beat the tier 5 duty misison not one person gave tomo crap about using the JSF. again i state, "Fight Fire with Fire" you know why? because when your fire out burns his, it means you really are better.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I really don't know what you are trying to say here.







Vulthoom' Nyarlathotep - Smuggler, Imperial Pilot.

Aphoom Zhah - Malice Squadron, Heavy Fighter Specialist.



What we've got here, is failure to communicate. Some men, you just can't reach.


Julak
Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:56 pm
#45
Long story short, i'm telling the people who fly the Heavy X to shut up about how unbalaced the JSF is and look at how their ship is balanced, I know its jumbled but hey, it came out as I wrote it, there was no premeditative thinking here.



"The only Imp I regret never meeting was Grand Admiral Thrawn, he was also the only one I was ever sad to see go." Talax Shrad
Attacca
Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:00 pm
#46




BalexSlicer wrote:

One hits are realistic, but boring. I'd like to be able to have a dogfight that lasts at least a minute and get a shot off at the other guy while he does the same to be. The current system seems to be the first to land a shot wins.




In a 50k ship with my weeny 1700 HP shields I seldom die to one hit...except for those danged Heavy X's.


Interceptors don't need to slide or handle well at low speeds, that's part of the trade off for their agility at high speeds (interceptors including, at least in my mind, the TIE Interceptor, A-Wing, TIE Advanced, RGI...). I'd kill for the Vaksai's slide though...that would make heavier ships that drop to 40% throttle a lot easier to kill, since I wouldn't have to fly straight at them while the turret on me. Did I mention I hate Heavy-X's?


Adapt or die, by the way, is a stupid philosophy and nothing more than an excuse. Seriously. Pull your noggin out of whatever crack in the wall it's stuck in - a simple glance at the numbers is evidence enough that we have some balance problems. The RGI wasn't coded that way to give it a, "special dodge modifier," or any other mystical mistake. Get real. You're making excuses for using cheap ways to win. Common sense should step in somewhere and allow a person to realize where the problems with these ships lie. The people arguing against the Actis/B-22/RGI/etc balancing are scared they'll lose whatever little advantage they already have. I'll say it bluntly - they'll have to actually learn things like mass management and evasive abilities. They'll have to learn to fly, and after all it's much easier to continue to hide in a massively unbalanced ship.





~ Captain Nesanya / Murphey ~
Rebel Alliance A-Wing Pilot
...has mastered the Pilot profession
Are you a pilot and not using Droid Commands?

Washell
Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:17 pm
#47




Julak wrote: a lot



Those guys you're ranting about are flying pre-rotw ships. They are adapting. They are killing JSF's and bel's. So why the need for balance? They would kill everyone 10 times out of 10 if they were flying the JSF/Bel themselves. When they do meet an equal skilled pilot while both flying JSF/Bel's they'll be manouvering for upto an hour before a kill is scored. There's no fun in that.


So they fly old-style ships and still have fun. Meanwhile, a whole generation of pilots grows up thinking 90k is low mass, SW crafted stuff is good and some other misconceptions.


As for your Heavy-X rant, we're talking PvP here and in PvP it's balanced. It's definately unbalanced in PvE but that hardly matters, with a decent enough pilotall shipsbut the 12k startersare unbalanced in PvE.



Julak
Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:34 pm
#48
ok, you said i didnt, you said its balanced so why in the hell do we ahve these threads then?



"The only Imp I regret never meeting was Grand Admiral Thrawn, he was also the only one I was ever sad to see go." Talax Shrad
ShaiLyn
Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:17 pm
#49




Julak wrote:
ok, you said i didnt, you said its balanced so why in the hell do we ahve these threads then?





Because most people can't adapt.


No, the ships aren't 100% balanced, but they're alot closer than one would be led to believe reading these forums. Pilot skill level and components used are much more unbalanced than the actual ships. Luckily, every pilot has the ability to improve in those two aspects.





Starsider
Xova Qiin - Nightsister Outcast

Corbantis
Silhouette - Twi'lek Shipwright

Kettemoor
Kiamata - Imperial Pilot

...has mastered the Pilot profession
Julak
Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:18 pm
#50
Thanx for at least helping.



"The only Imp I regret never meeting was Grand Admiral Thrawn, he was also the only one I was ever sad to see go." Talax Shrad
FilanVader
Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:49 pm
#51
only way to balance ships is to make any that take multiple players take alot more and give alot more then any smaller counterpart could ever handle. POBs should gain in excess of 25,000 shields and do 9k-15k damage a shot(remember these need multiple players to be effective). bomber class should also gain a shield and weapons damage bonus as well as a ordance accuracy bonus(basicly a chance that countermeasures wont fool the missle). intercepters would get more fragile but due to their hitbox and handling they can avoid many hits anyway. these ideas would only fuction in PvP. but basicly one guy in a single fighter shouldnt be able to go toe to toe with a POB and win while just soaking up the fire. takeing a shot from a Nova, YT, decimator should pretty much frag any fighter or atleast hurt like getting shot by the corvette does.
Imaridril
Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:10 pm
#52

100% balance will never be possible, however I think pretty much every long-term JTL player will agree that the space game was more balanced before ROTW. On top of that, I think most long term JTL players will also agree that the ROTW fighters are actually overall less fun to fly. Battles where everyone is using ROTW ships last too long, and their extreme turning abilities routinely overstrain the server and result in the bumblebee effect. As for PvE, they take an already too-easy game and make it even easier.


The simplest solution is to just fix the ROTW ships. If the JSF and Belb22 had originally had the same handling as an A-wing and only 60k mass, no one would have complained, or if the Heavy X-wing had originally had 30k less mass than it has now, everyone would have been happy. Hopefully once the devs are done fixing the Y-8 and the other POB ships, they'll take another look at the ROTW fighters.






Master Pilot - Adonis Overstar
Pre-NGE Weaponsmith/Armorsmith - Ulrech Overstar

KSE Firespray: Baphomet

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