Pilot Archive
Thread: I hate them because I care
History shows, the greatest technological breakthroughs happen in War.
Alarien wrote:
"These ships are ancient relics"
Considering that the Star Wars Universe was hyperspace capable for at least 25,000 years, 24 ish years between Revenge of the Sith and Empire Strikes Back makes it very unlikely that the technological difference between the JSF and the TIE Interceptor and X-Wing/A-Wing is very much at all. Only real difference should be minor tweaks and philosophy.
Just because we've gonefrom horse drawn carriages to space in less than 100 years does not mean that a stagnant old high/late tech society will still be advancing at our rate. Likely, it would take several hundred years, to maybe millenia for major new breakthroughs in technology in Star Wars.
Ever seen the Ebon Hawk?
Shona, you've created a monster!
SheenaBrelya wrote:
Many people had many various issues with the "good old days," I'll never deny that. What this influx of "ideal" ships has given us, though, is the removal of the tactical considerations of chassis choice when it came to pilot skill, flight style preference, and mission target. Do we even still need our wonderful new ship slots now that we can create a single ship that will handle any situation?
But, amen. Nice try Rapax, but that's the whole thing, the Bel and the JSF have similar hit boxes. Yes, the A-wing's is tiny and nice... but at the current weights, its still an inferior ship to those 2 in the interceptor role.
>>
Are you that blind? Its not that the A wing is underpowered its because the new ships are overpowered due to the higher mass.
>>Err, I think you complete miss the entire point of balance.
Acutally, you did.
>>If you think "light fighter" and survivability go in the same sentence, you need to rethink your understanding of how the whole starship dynamic works.
Is that so? I guess i just have no understanding of JTL game mechanics at all.
>>Survivability is the ablity to take a punch.
Do the words, avoidance or mitigation hold any meaning for you?
>> The thing about Interceptors is if you hit them, their screwed, and that's how it should be.
umm hmm.. Well thats not how it works. First, much like a JSF, a T/I is hard to hit. But the reality is you have to get through the shield as well. Theres 3 sheilds most players use, regardless of chassis.
.
MK III, MK IV, and L8 RE'd.
Except POBs, A RE'd L8 is the max any ship can legitimate use, thats 2555 F/b. This is the max a Y wing can use. The new ROTW ships also have the mass to use said shields. The ships your defending are interceptors that are rarely hit, AND can "tank" the damage when they are hit like a Y wing because they have the mass to support larger eqipment. Pre RTOW ships didnt have the mass to strap in an RE'd L8 shield without making some serious sacrafices in weapon or engines.
So please explain to everyone how making all ships unbalanced like the ROTW ships will do anything but further trivalize the game? I however, am done with this pointless ping pong match.
I'd have to agree with Shona. Overpowered and what we want ultimately means not as much fun as first expected.
Heck look at SWG in general. The players wanted this and that and Jedi and look what the Devs gave them! And thus we have utter chaos and unhappiness. Ultimately I think the best way to help the situation is to cap the new 'good ones' down. I know that normally Devs never want to take away something the players expect because of the months of whining, but for this case there really isn't as huge of a community in space to hear from.
Cap the JSF to 55K mass. It's already a small window to hit. It already 'looks cool'.
You said you were done last time.
"Are you that blind? Its not that the A wing is underpowered its because the new ships are overpowered due to the higher mass."
-Response: Are you that blind? The new ships are all perfectly balanced to each other, and the older ships are underbalanced!
See look, I can make a sweeping declaration with no support based entirely on opinion too. Yay for me.
"Acutally, you did."
No, you did.
"Do the words, avoidance or mitigation hold any meaning for you?"
Yes, avoidance is what interceptors have. Mitigation is what larger ships should have, but overloads trivialize them.
"umm hmm.. Well thats not how it works. First, much like a JSF, a T/I is hard to hit. But the reality is you have to get through the shield as well. Theres 3 sheilds most players use, regardless of chassis.umm hmm.. Well thats not how it works. First, much like a JSF, a T/I is hard to hit. But the reality is you have to get through the shield as well. Theres 3 sheilds most players use, regardless of chassis"
This doesn't address anything I commented on, actually. Yes, we all know everyone uses shields and pretty much the same ones. The difference between them is so small against overloaded blasters that their ability to take damage is the difference between maybe 1 or 2 more hits on a Heavy X vs a JSF, or 1 more hit on an X vs an A. Not really sure if you had a point with this.
"So please explain to everyone how making all ships unbalanced like the ROTW ships will do anything but further trivalize the game? I however, am done with this pointless ping pong match."
The onus is on you to prove that they are unbalanced. Sure, they may be unbalanced vs some of the old ships. That I'll give you. However, you fail to address PVE at all, which is where they finally give the game the proper feel. No "easier" is not the proper feel. Not shooting the same NPC TIE fighter 10 times with 1 blaster in an interceptor class starship (A-Wing) is the proper feel. The new ships are balanced vs Kessel and Deep Space in the same way a newbie ship is balanced vs a Tier 1 ship. That's how it should be.
playtpus (sp?) already said in all likely hood IF he discovered a problem that it would be corrected likely by strengthening the old ships, not nerfing the new ones. considering the feel of the new ships in PVE i highly doubt any of them will get a nerf. honestly i expect mass increases and i don't agree that this would be a bad thing necessarily. the lighter fighters in particular are not efficient PVE ships at the higest level because of their mass restrictions, managable yes, but nowhere near efficient.i bet that changes and i bet they let us duke it out for minor YPR/hitbox modifications after that.
You know Quad, i wouldn't be surpised in the least if thats exactly what happends.
Firstly, no matter what, even if its for the greater long term good of the game, people don't like nerfs for any reason, whatsover. Its just a blind abject, hatred that refuses to understand. More than likely SOE will knuckle under to that.
But, im looking at this long term. THis isnt about the A wing, or an other specific ship. Its about player power level vs the difficult of the game. Raising the bar on all the other ships is a realy really bad idea. Because it raises the collective power of the player community. Lets face it, the content is already trival, and isnt much of any challenge. Now lets make it even more trivial by increasing the players power by increasing mass.
Whats ultimately going to happen is another "combat upgrade". . Look at the ground game. Orginally everyone grouped, wore differnt armor. Then they added composite.. and dock buffs. Before long you had a single guy who can solo mulitple mobs twice his own "level". Look what happened? The CU. Now the ground game is just another a WOW influenced EQesque level based game.
Mark my words, History will repeat itself.
But in the interm our only endgame is PvP, and it is progressivly becoming more like the ground game. Only its gone about it in a different way. Not with damage reduction, but by making them smaller and faster. Post ROTW we saw some long fights, but NOTHING like some of the ones we can see now. Ive had waaayyy too many 15-20 min dogfights lately. Ever see a couple melee's duke it out at a starport? Just kinda sit there for 5 -10 mins only to see one look like hes about to die then make some amazing recovery and it goes on for anotehr 15 mins? Thats what space is starting to look like. Personally im bored and walk away after the first 10 mins. Space PvP to me with some exaggeration, is becoming a strong arm contest. Who's arm can endure yanking the joystick around the longest?
I am adamantly against buffing old ships. It must not be done. Yeah im an imp pilot, i stand the gain the most from it, and i say NO. ALl they need to do, is bring the B22, JSF, and RGT to be a little bit more inscale with the rest of the game. Not set the stage for another CU.
Ducimus wrote:
I am adamantly against buffing old ships. It must not be done. Yeah im an imp pilot, i stand the gain the most from it, and i say NO. ALl they need to do, is bring the B22, JSF, and RGT to be a little bit more inscale with the rest of the game. Not set the stage for another CU.
Amen, pilot. Why rebalance the entire range of ships, when it's only three ships causing the problem? Seems like a simple equation to me.
Plus, less complexity that the devs have to deal withmeans less (inevitable)bugs for us to deal with.
Ducimus wrote:
Alarien wrote:Bring the A-Wing up to 80 or 90k mass and the regular X-Wing to 120k mass. Give the A-Wing a 2nd gun.
Stop the bus right there.
That is so not the answer, its not even funny.
That's most likely the "I don't want to drop Rebel Pilot/all my faction/both" answer as well.
Note in that same thing, nothing was said about the TIE Advanced. Privateers already HAD 2P/1M and 85-87k in the Dunelizard.
