Pilot Archive

---

Alarien wrote:

---

Sorry if you don't like it but the balance issue isn't with the new ships. Its the old horrendous first run ships. I don't care what "badge of honor" you wear for balancing their worth, they pretty much cannot do the job they are canon intended to do or fit the role they should fit.

---

I dont have to tell you your wrong. I'll let everyone else do that for me.
The problem is the new ships. You just dont like the idea of having your ubership nerfed. Thats my guess. Raising the bar on the entire game just to accomidate 1 or 2 ships out of self intrest is not the answer.

---

Ducimus wrote:

Raising the bar on the entire game just to accomidate 1 or 2 ships out of self intrest is not the answer.

---

---

Dragon942 wrote:

All of these fighters are better than the ones they replaced. There are no backward steps, so the indication would be the newer, the better. That's not to say they've had great leaps forward in starfighter technology in the time period in question. Maybe the shipyards just got better at doing their jobs, and could produce higher quality fighters for the same price. Or maybe the warring factions just spent more money on them. I'd agree technology isn't progressing all that rapidly int he Star Wars Universe, but the quality of the starfighters is.

---

The steps in the movie are forward due to the states of open warfare that existed. In the interim was an enforced peace in which a cheaper mass produced mentality prevailed, and under that force, backwards steps could most certainly have occured. Everything rebuilt after the clone wars could have been shoddier, anda huge chunk of whatthe Empire had got shoved directly into the first Death Star. As Imperial economic controls tightened many yards could have lowered standards or closed. I'm basing all this on things the guy who made that universe has said, not just some enforced parallel to our own life and times.

Observations from recent space PvP

Fight #1

I fought against TEM, I was in my RG TIE he was in his JSF. This was an all out jink-fest! 30 minutes... 30 MINUTES!!!! I finally took him down with a few well placed engine hits. All in all... damn good fight.

Fight #2

Again, me in my RG TIE someone else in a JSF. Again nice long 15-20 minutes fight. Was a great time. More turning and burning than I have done in awhile. Again, eventually I got the lock and put him down (he wasted mass on weapons and didn't have a countermeasure launcher.. hehehe...)

Fight #3-10

There were 2 rebels in DS the other night and we were going at it for quite sometime. When I first warped in they were both so close to the ISD that I didn't see the second at first. I toasted one and took the 2nd down to 54% Engines before getting dusted myself.

Now this was classic JTL-PvP in my point of view. First off because the original engagement was fun they kept coming back and so did I. No cheap shots, no draggin folks into aggro.. it was very fun. Also the Rebs weren't working together but I still ended up having to keep my eyes on two attackers at a time. One in an XWing the other in his Grievous, I flew my RG-TIE.

We traded kills back and forth for at least 3 hours straight. When we parted ways for the night I had made 2 new friends.

---

Now... here's my issue with the rants and raves about the new ships. If you believe the only way you can compete is to fly one of these then unplug your joystick and go sit in the cantinna becuase you're a lousey pilot. It's a poor musician that blames their instrument.

I want to point out something about these new ships, they get people to fly! Period! I go and spend hours and hours in DS and I'm lucky if I see more than 1 overt in that timeframe. "Well thats because no ACE's want to try to go against these new over-powered ships!" Oh please! None of these new ships are as invincable as some make them sound. How did you handle AWings when the best you had was a TIE Intercepter or Advanced?

Heck, I've even been successful against JSF/AWings in my TIE aggressor. So I understand the calls for balance and such, matter of fact when these first hit live I helped lead the charge and bring this issue to Tomo (don't believe me, ask Ducimus...) Right now, there's other fish we need to fry.

• Freedom Station is STILL invincible.


• POB ships are too weak.


• Loot drops are inconsistant


• Can't move things up and down in the Y8


• Y8 is barely able to mine


• Space Mining has limited to no use in terms of the ground game


• GCW and JTL have no connection


• etc.....

I understand the arguements above my post, matter of fact I've said all the same things before. Personally, I'm willing to adapt to anything these Dev's throw at us if it means more pilots in DS. Otherwise all this is is another cry to NERF something thats actually fun.

/bowRespectfully

---

PaceNebulon wrote:

---

Ducimus wrote:
Raising the bar on the entire game just to accomidate 1 or 2 ships out of self intrest is not the answer.

---

Regardless if this is the right answer or not, it seems that SOE does not agree with you. No matter how much we argue about it and send complaints to the devs they are not going to chage thier mind. (i.e. CU)

---

Sony doesnt have a clue. They can't even fix exploits that make you unkillable that have existed since day 1. Let alone the WO3 bug.

---

Alarien wrote:
You don't like the system because you are used to the old balance. I think the old balance stinks and jumping from flying ships in XvT,X:Alliance and then flying them in JTL feels like stepping down several levels

---

Newsflash, this isnt Tie fighter. This isnt Xwing. This isnt XwA, and this isnt XvT. You think your the first one to say, "this should be more like XwA!!" ?
Hardly. Hell even i made posts claiming we should be using E/W/S management system a long time ago when i first started here.

This is JTL. A totally different game, not to be confused with the others. In the other games ships were standardized, here they are not. Here in JTL theres too many variable to consider with balance becuse the system is so open ended. And what exactly do you consider the "new balance?". Thats the problem, THERE IS NO BALANCE with ROTW fighters.

Mass exists for a reason, and its to make sure you can't have your cake and eat it too. The balance paradigm has been and should continue to be

High YPR & speed = low mass
Mid YPR & speed = mediem mass
Low YPR & Speed = high mass.

There has to be a system of tradeoffs. A plus for a minus. Otherwise you can just have it all. Oh wait.. *looks at JSF and Heavy Xwing* nevermind you already can have it all.

Can't wait to see what your A wing comments drag out, because the A wing rocks, even post ROTW. Whats the matter, Can't manage 65K mass?

Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-12-2005 01:48 PM

---

psikobunny wrote:

The steps in the movie are forward due to the states of open warfare that existed. In the interim was an enforced peace in which a cheaper mass produced mentality prevailed, and under that force, backwards steps could most certainly have occured. Everything rebuilt after the clone wars could have been shoddier, anda huge chunk of whatthe Empire had got shoved directly into the first Death Star. As Imperial economic controls tightened many yards could have lowered standards or closed. I'm basing all this on things the guy who made that universe has said, not just some enforced parallel to our own life and times.

---

Except for that part where the original TIE Fighter, the weakest starfighter of the OT, was designed before the conclusion of the Clone Wars...

How long does it really take to give the Pre-ROTW ships some stat buffs? Honestly, it's been at least a month since the devs anounced the need for stat buffs for fighters and additional turrets for the Y8. SOE, your talk is worthless without Follow-Through!

Vegitaa wrote:
>>If you believe the only way you can compete is to fly one of these then unplug your joystick and go sit in the cantinna becuase you're a lousey pilot

Guess i better hang it up then. I feel compelled to uses ROTW ships to remain compedative.

Heres why:

My compeition is using:

- High YPR lvl 8 engines that L6's cant achieve. Im getting outmanuvered a few too many times for my liking becuase of it.

- lvl 8 shields, now my L7 gun isnt doing enough damage. They shunt the hit, no system damage occurs most of the time.

Obviously i need to ugprade.


Now here are my choices.
Heavy tie and T/A - i dont like chin mounted guns in pvp though, espeically on small targets, so thats out.
T/I - With new equipment criteria, good luck with 50K mass.
T/O - i hate using this, its almost as bad as Epulse 3. I try to avoid it.


That leaves me with the b22, rgt or JSF as having enough mass to meet equpiment criteria and desired weaponspread.

---

Doofius wrote:
The Mayans had a more accurate calendar then our current one. My '66 Chevy Nova will kick the crap out of your '03 plastic Saturn in a demolition derby!

---

Hey, that thing got a Hemmie? In the most recent years, although we don't have many upgrades in performance, we have developed highly efficient hybrid cars that burn and mass less.

---

CommTampers wrote:
How long does it really take to give the Pre-ROTW ships some stat buffs? Honestly, it's been at least a month since the devs anounced the need for stat buffs for fighters

---

I thnk that was a stratics HOC chat.

A complaint was raised against ROTW fighters. THere response was they'd do a review of the situation. I dont think they ever said they were buffing anything, only that theyd look into the complaints.

Rapax, you're starting to make a fool of yourself. Relax your rant and attempt reason rather than your emotional freak outs.

"There has to be a system of tradeoffs. A plus for a minus. Otherwise you can just have it all. Oh wait.. *looks at JSF and Heavy Xwing* nevermind you already can have it all.

Can't wait to see what your A wing comments drag out, because the A wing rocks, even post ROTW. Whats the matter, Can't manage 65K mass? "

This is ridiculous. Of course, I can manage 65k in mass, and come up with an inferior ship that I can fly to the nines. Whoop. Leaph has made the most badass loadout on an A-Wing I think anyone has posted. Guess what? Put the same loadout on a JSF and add in another gun, more armor, more shields and the same everything and you've got proof that the A-Wing is inferior on current balance. So don't come in and say the "A-Wing Rocks" like you've got it all together. Two posts later you yourself are saying "I need to be in the ROTW ship to compete." You're not even making sense anymore.

Where are the incredible balance issues that you are bringing up? The balance paradigm is a lot simpler than you make it: All ships should be viable against Tier 4 and Tier 5 NPCs to make any PVE engagement reasonable (not necessarily easy, but reasonable). That is NOT what the early system had. The A-Wing and its one pathetic gun (no matter how well RE'd) takes entirely too long to kill Tier 5targets, even chain firing and rarely missing a shot. That's not what an "Interceptor" is about. The Belbullab, on the other hand, plays the Intercept role against Tier 5 NPCs perfectly.

The X-wing (regular) works fine in Deep Space (I've spent considerable time there in it, killing everything in the zone and the ISD without issue) but no matter how well tricked out, it feels sluggish in comparison to the Tier 5 ships... EXACTLY how the Z-95 SHOULD feel. Bringing the Z-95 up to 95k mass with the Heavy variant actually makes the Z-95 what it is supposed to be, a step down, but still viable fighter. Its old version isn't even worth laughing at.

The Heavy X finally gives the X-Wing the feel that an advanced superiority fighter is supposed to have.

No, as far as Rebel ships go, against Tier 4 and 5 ships, the feel of the flying in the newer ships is exactly how they should feel. Yeah, they are easier than older versions, but that's more because the old versions were junk.

Can you seriously sit there and attempt to explain why a Z-95 (which is a viable fighter in the Star Wars universe) can't have more than tier 1-3 gear on it due to weight and never be viable vs anything above tier 3, but an X-Wing can equip any level gear and be viable at Tier 5? The Z-95 is laughable and nowhere near its canon pedigree.

And what about this whole PVP balance thing? How is the turn radius and speed of combat any different now than when you were flying the old ships? You're still using a Nym's engine with a same turn speed as an A-Wing or Interceptor. What's changed? Is it just that the newer ships have another gun and slightly more run for equipment? Well, that makes them more viable in PVE and fit their interceptor role better. Pace of combat hasn't changed at all, so don't bring up that excuse.

Further, the advent of the Heavy X-Wing actually gives the X-Wing PVP viability again. The regular X-Wing is a joke vs a TIE Int or an A-Wing with a good engine. It has none of the expanded survivability or significantly increased payload to fall back on as its balance feature. The Heavy X has just that. A good JSF pilot with a good engine will give a Heavy X a tough time, but a good Heavy X pilot with a good elite RE engine will be able to fight back. This same balance does NOT exist for equal skill pilots in a regular X vs regular TIE Int, or, on the other hand, a TIE Adv vs an A-Wing.

Really, its a matter of opinion. You can sit there and scream bloody murder that I'm wrong all you want, but that doesn't in any way make you actually correct in a subjective discussion. I like the current balance more. I think it feels like Star Wars. That doesn't reflect on my skills at all and if you think it does, then you're a fool. It reflects on the way I think the game lives up to its namesake. Don't like it? Fine, but you can take your superiority attitude and sit on it, because that's something you can't prove typing around a message board.

>>Put the same loadout on a JSF and add in another gun, more armor, more shields and the same everything and you've got proof that the A-Wing is inferior on current balance.
>>

So.. never no mind that its fast, small, and hard to hit? That it can surivive relatively unscathed where other ships can't get through without a beating?

I guess in your game we're supposed to have speed, high YPR, AND huge defensive and offensive systems as well? Hey if you were a dev i think id love you. How now i can get high surivablity of a light figher with firepower resembling a heavy bomber! Awesome game balance.




>>Where are the incredible balance issues that you are bringing up?

See above.


>>The balance paradigm is a lot simpler than you make it: All ships should be viable against Tier 4 and Tier 5 NPCs to make any PVE engagement reasonable (not necessarily easy, but reasonable). That is NOT what the early system had
>>

I guess you missed the whole mass thing. And acually, with a the excpetion of the normal starter ships and the 20K mass tie figher, they all are PvE viable. Not always optimal, but viable, even an unshieled 40K mass T/Ln in deep space is viable.


Its clear in your mind you think your correct. Im 100% positve your not. Im quite sure the majority (not all, but most) of the forum will agree with me. Neither of us is obviously going to change our stance, futher discussion is pointless. Im gonna let it go at that.