Pilot Archive
Thread: Decayless PvP in Deep Space? Sorry.. I don't Buy It...
Chiwawa
Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:48 pm
#53
Volgun wrote:
BTW my friends are saving the loot they don't even need. So they have about 20mil in their houses.Still don't know how to edit posts in these forums. Why isn't their a button? Or is it invisible.
there is, you need to be logged in, you will find it under options to the right at the top of your thread when your viewing it
NajaPallida
Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:03 pm
#54
Dru_McNasty wrote:
Can we please stop making comparisons of game mechanics to Real Life. I am tired of seeing posts like this one and the posts where people complain that they should be able to kill Night Sisters with a rusty knife because in the real world a night sister isn't going to have gotten a tetanus shot and with one hit the rusty knife will cause a massive DOT that will kill her and since they always wear armor I should always get both thier armor and weapons as loot. And in Real Life if I drove my car off a cliff like a speeder bike it should blah blah blah
Come on its a game!
Stop making these illogical comparisons to Real Life in order to rationalize something that you dont't agree with in the game. Its just ridiculous.
DING!!!!!!!!
Another dollar.... (I wish)
Another person who doesn't even care to look at the simulation that is SWG as a whole entity, and only want's to view it from a tiny perspective.
/sigh
sssssssssssssssSSS(:-<
Ducimus
Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:29 pm
#55
You want realism, hows this:
Just like real life, not everything in SWG works how'd you like it to.
Do you cry as much about things in RL or do you cry this much because it's just a game?
If you want a realism, why settle for a game when you can get away from your keyboard, walk out the door, and experience the real thing.
Just like real life, not everything in SWG works how'd you like it to.
Do you cry as much about things in RL or do you cry this much because it's just a game?
If you want a realism, why settle for a game when you can get away from your keyboard, walk out the door, and experience the real thing.
TheSkankinSpiv
Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:08 pm
#56
Ducimus wrote:
You want realism, hows this:
Just like real life, not everything in SWG works how'd you like it to.
Do you cry as much about things in RL or do you cry this much because it's just a game?
If you want a realism, why settle for a game when you can get away from your keyboard, walk out the door, and experience the real thing.
/snap
/snap
/snap
/snap
Tumbler2002
Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:29 pm
#57
I'm a pretty new player, I came aboard about a month before JTL hoping I could build up a good character to play in JTL.
I'm an Ace now, and own 1 of each Imperial Ship, except a tie bomber and decimator.
After making Ace I purchased the Oppressor for 1.5 mill credits and am very happy to have a place that I can fly around and not worry about decay'ng my very expensive ship. Decay to my ship isn't what bothers me, it's to my components. The oppressor is so expensive (for me) that if it decay'd in deep space I'd probably still be using the aggressor though.
I don't want to see them bring decay back into Deep space. The place is empty. I have been up there dozens of times and have NEVER seen an enemy ship. I have run into 2 other Imperial players doing PvE like me but I would really like to see more Rebels and Imperials fighting up there. There's just no point. I'm currently looking for certain loot items or else I wouldn't be spending my time up there. If you add decay to the fact that there is really nothing happening in deep space, what is the point of ever going there?
PvP is not fun when people lose things they have worked hard to get. It should stay as a fun gameplay feature that people can join into and leave with the same things they started with.
Someone pointed out earlier that decay causes farming. I am still in the growing stage so I'm trying to make money just to keep my character growing but I'm seein the light at the end of the tunnel and pretty soon I'll have all the best items I can find and I don't want to have to login and kill things just so I can buy a new helmet after my current one dies...
I wouldn't mind something that automatically decays an item after 6 months or something, so every 6 months the quality goes down just a bit. At least that way things wouldn't last forever. Mabye something more aggressive but still small enough so a casual gamer wouldn't need to work just to keep himself outfitted.
The market is so weird in this game as well. The bazaar should be a lot more useful. Selling things for a max of 6k is the whole problem. They need to bump that way up so that more ppl use the bazaar and have much larger fees for using it, shorter auction times and an ability to search the vendors, (everywhere) on an entire planet for certain items. It's really frustrating to have so many choices all over the place and have no way to look at them without physically going into each friggin house.
Add that to the fact that most players spend A LOT of time in major cities and a player cannot create vendors, rent space, or do anything to offer things to players (short of standing there shouting) where it would do the most good.
Add that to the fact that most items do not have a balanced usage. The best armor is the best in everyway. There is no reason to use other armors, same with weapons, ships, everything. If you want to become and armorsmith (or any crafter) you have to make master before you have much to sell.
I want a system that rewards crafters and keeps a strong economy going but decay is not the way to do it.
One system that I found almost flawless was the economy of eve online. The game had many problems but the economy was outstanding. It was so easy to find things you needed because the entire market, everything thing that was for sale, was searchable from almost any space station. And things that couldn't be sold on the market, ultra rare loot, were bartered on the Trade chat channel, a channel that most sellers in the entire game sat on to sell their goods. It was amazing how well it worked.
There is an auction channel that I've never tried using but I don't think enough people use it to make it effective.
I'm an Ace now, and own 1 of each Imperial Ship, except a tie bomber and decimator.
After making Ace I purchased the Oppressor for 1.5 mill credits and am very happy to have a place that I can fly around and not worry about decay'ng my very expensive ship. Decay to my ship isn't what bothers me, it's to my components. The oppressor is so expensive (for me) that if it decay'd in deep space I'd probably still be using the aggressor though.
I don't want to see them bring decay back into Deep space. The place is empty. I have been up there dozens of times and have NEVER seen an enemy ship. I have run into 2 other Imperial players doing PvE like me but I would really like to see more Rebels and Imperials fighting up there. There's just no point. I'm currently looking for certain loot items or else I wouldn't be spending my time up there. If you add decay to the fact that there is really nothing happening in deep space, what is the point of ever going there?
PvP is not fun when people lose things they have worked hard to get. It should stay as a fun gameplay feature that people can join into and leave with the same things they started with.
Someone pointed out earlier that decay causes farming. I am still in the growing stage so I'm trying to make money just to keep my character growing but I'm seein the light at the end of the tunnel and pretty soon I'll have all the best items I can find and I don't want to have to login and kill things just so I can buy a new helmet after my current one dies...
I wouldn't mind something that automatically decays an item after 6 months or something, so every 6 months the quality goes down just a bit. At least that way things wouldn't last forever. Mabye something more aggressive but still small enough so a casual gamer wouldn't need to work just to keep himself outfitted.
The market is so weird in this game as well. The bazaar should be a lot more useful. Selling things for a max of 6k is the whole problem. They need to bump that way up so that more ppl use the bazaar and have much larger fees for using it, shorter auction times and an ability to search the vendors, (everywhere) on an entire planet for certain items. It's really frustrating to have so many choices all over the place and have no way to look at them without physically going into each friggin house.
Add that to the fact that most players spend A LOT of time in major cities and a player cannot create vendors, rent space, or do anything to offer things to players (short of standing there shouting) where it would do the most good.
Add that to the fact that most items do not have a balanced usage. The best armor is the best in everyway. There is no reason to use other armors, same with weapons, ships, everything. If you want to become and armorsmith (or any crafter) you have to make master before you have much to sell.
I want a system that rewards crafters and keeps a strong economy going but decay is not the way to do it.
One system that I found almost flawless was the economy of eve online. The game had many problems but the economy was outstanding. It was so easy to find things you needed because the entire market, everything thing that was for sale, was searchable from almost any space station. And things that couldn't be sold on the market, ultra rare loot, were bartered on the Trade chat channel, a channel that most sellers in the entire game sat on to sell their goods. It was amazing how well it worked.
There is an auction channel that I've never tried using but I don't think enough people use it to make it effective.
NeonCoyote
Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:41 pm
#58
Just a comment on the Shipwright aspect of the game.
If you are worried about the econ for them, take into account that sooo sooo sooo many crafters dumped a profession to pick up SW. Even if items disinigrated using them once there would be issues when half the crafting profession is a SWs 
As a master tailor with decay issues (and personlly I hate decay and dont care if cloths ever have decay) The business relies on 2 things. Customer service (getting return customers that look you up and will wait for you if you are not online instead of grabbing any crafter) and Game turnover. New folks joining SWG and old ones Leaving to play WoW because they hate all the game decay or other issues.
Once folks get over the Newness of SW there will be fewer of them and they will once again be more useful. If you expect folks to just come to you because you are a crafter and dont work hard for your customer base... that's no reason to push decay. You have to work for your base as hard as other professions have to hunt and grind too 
Arryth
Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:05 pm
#59
Chiwawa wrote:
Arryth wrote:
Eaca wrote:Decay is goodCurrent implimentation of JTL decay is bad as it needlessly weakens your combat survivabilityRead more Here about how it could be changed to put the sting back in death, without being too much of a sting like it is today.
We dont need "sting". We need fun. The majority has already sproken to the devs on this... the side that wanted pvp decay lost.. The issue is over. Plain and simple of it.. I do not want to beforced to pay the huge prices on most shipwrights even one more time. I do not want to have to spend 12 hours grinding money on the ground so i can spend 3 hours pvping in space every other day.
Other then pleasing greedy crafters, decay does absolutly ZERO for the pilot community...in fact it harms us..
Wow your trolling here as well as the shipwright forums!! Skills!!!
give us all a break and find a cheap MSW on your server im sure I can find one for you if I ask about
Trolling?? Im a master pilot 12 time sover, I have done every branch and I spend most of my game time in space.. If I cant post here, no one can... Go back to the shipwright boards Chiwawa and stop trying to hurt the pilot community.
Arryth
Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:11 pm
#60
Chiwawa wrote:
NajaPallida wrote:Decayless PvP? Get over yourselves....If you drive your car off of a hillside and turn the chassis into Ruffles Potato Chip, you can (possibly) straighten it out. The chassis will not be as strong after being repaired... simple laws of physics and metallurgy apply.If you're foolish enough to drive your car off of the same hillside, and again turn your chassis into a Ruffles Potato chip, you may or may not be able to straighten it. That is simply a fact of life. Again, simple laws of physics and metallurgy apply. The more times you stress a structure beyond its normal load specifications, the shorter it's lifespan will be.I ought to know.. I have destroyed several automobiles, and a couple of airframes, in my long and (somewhat) checkered lifetime.Time for a "reality check", kiddies... Fractures and warping in steel, aluminum and copper can only be "repaired" so many times... after which, all one can do is "buy a new chassis"... or "buy a new vehicle."In a simulation where there is an economy specifically designed to mimic the realities of a growing (or in our current case a "stagnating") gaming economy (to include a complete branch devoted to repair and refit of starships), whining about decay on ship chassis and components in a such volume and timbre that the Developers "give in to the Mob Mentality"... well it simply makes me sick./rant onWhat I have seen is a bunch of children that always have to have it easy... children that never thought, for a moment, that the game has something to teach... For that manner, children that never think... period."Boo hoo.. It's too hard to make exp... Make it easier,,,""Boo hoo.. I dont have time to make the credits required to repair my ship... make it easier...""Boo hoo.. I can't possibly make enough credits to replace components after PvP... Take PvP Decay AWAYYYY!!!""Boo hoo.. I don't understand... explain it to me in words of two syllables or less...""Boo hoo.. I can't... will you do it for me?"/rant offGrow up kiddees... if you dont do it now, then you'll eventually discover that reality tend's to be extremely harsh and uncaring.Sheesh... Now I'll have to listen to all the flames, snide remarks and downright hostility... Oh well.. nothing that i am not inured to.so.... "bring it".ssssssssssssssssssssssSSS(:-<
Sorry, but RIGHT ON!!!! 5 stars for you!
Cue flames, anyone that has had a space run in with me (quartz, veronas or any of the good masters on farstar)or has traded with me (speak up, all 500 odd of you) knows I abide by the above. I hold my own (most of the time, yes quartz that means you!) in space and am not afriad to pile in even when i know I will die (yes I assist new players in kessel), and my VERY nice ship will get less uber.
Stuff decays, get over it! Quit treating shipwrights like they OWE you a ship and the best they can produce, we dont, it costs money, and costs time and thought and most of all experience. Most of us dont ask much and produce great stuff for you to fight with.
Fed up
Shamai
Get lost troll.. you dont care about pilots well being.. You just want your shipwright ego stroked some more. They need even more loot, tons of great uber loot... so we wont have to put up witht he likes of you.. Id much prefer
to buy my stuff from an npc vender then put up with your self serving smugness. I dont play this game so I can endlessly grind cash, just to play in space.. Decay is harmfull to most players.. The more thats gone the better.
Arryth
Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:13 pm
#61
NajaPallida wrote:
Dru_McNasty wrote:Can we please stop making comparisons of game mechanics to Real Life. I am tired of seeing posts like this one and the posts where people complain that they should be able to kill Night Sisters with a rusty knife because in the real world a night sister isn't going to have gotten a tetanus shot and with one hit the rusty knife will cause a massive DOT that will kill her and since they always wear armor I should always get both thier armor and weapons as loot. And in Real Life if I drove my car off a cliff like a speeder bike it should blah blah blahCome on its a game!Stop making these illogical comparisons to Real Life in order to rationalize something that you dont't agree with in the game. Its just ridiculous.DING!!!!!!!!Another dollar.... (I wish)Another person who doesn't even care to look at the simulation that is SWG as a whole entity, and only want's to view it from a tiny perspective./sighsssssssssssssssSSS(:-<
I'll try this one last time, slowly... SWG is NOT a simulation.. It is a role playing game.. it is fantasy sci-fi... Get it now? If you want a simulation.. go find a different game..
BeigeKnight
Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:51 pm
#62
The fact that it bothers some people that there is no decay in space PvP is quite possibly the most rediculous thing I've ever heard.
PConsole
Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:51 pm
#63
Well, I'm a pilot and I won't bother with deep space or pvp until there is some kind of decay. Now, I'm also a shipwright but I'm not public so I don't care about selling stuff. I don't need to. I made more than enough money as SW and I continue to make a lot more of it in space as a pilot. The shipwright angle isn't what bothers me.
I've played other games where pvp is the focus (shadowbane for instance) and unless there is some kind of risk involved, really what's the point? Right now I can die out there and just head right back up again with no thought about consequences at all. Its silly.
The people who cry about decay being there weren't in deep space for the right reasons. They were probably only loot hunting instead of looking for pvp. Bring back decay and make those types of people stay in the planetary systems where they belong.
You want to see some real action in deep space? with real pilots? bring back decay and allow the winners to get the credit chips of the losers or at least SOME kind of compensation. While we're at it, lose the faction based fighting so I can take friendly fire hits as well forcing people to concentrate on where they're firing.
I've played other games where pvp is the focus (shadowbane for instance) and unless there is some kind of risk involved, really what's the point? Right now I can die out there and just head right back up again with no thought about consequences at all. Its silly.
The people who cry about decay being there weren't in deep space for the right reasons. They were probably only loot hunting instead of looking for pvp. Bring back decay and make those types of people stay in the planetary systems where they belong.
You want to see some real action in deep space? with real pilots? bring back decay and allow the winners to get the credit chips of the losers or at least SOME kind of compensation. While we're at it, lose the faction based fighting so I can take friendly fire hits as well forcing people to concentrate on where they're firing.
Ducimus
Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:41 pm
#64
>>Now, I'm also a shipwright but I'm not public so I don't care about selling stuff. I don't need to.
>>
Ahh, the SW's version of PvP that not everyone can afford. ya lets change the game to accomidate the few people who can say that. *rolls eyes*
You must not like seeing alot of people in deep space. Cause its a good bet, you'd see less than you currently do.
>>I've played other games where pvp is the focus (shadowbane for instance) and unless there is some kind of risk involved, really what's the point?
>>
BTW, shadowbanes not a good example, that game isnt exactly doing good compared to other titles. kinda hanging down there with horizon's by a thread (A GU comic comes to mind ) As to the point, or lack thereof, this isnt a JTL specific issue. All PvP in SWG lacks point.
Heck, even my favorite PvP MMO (planetside,) where you fought for land control ultimatly lacked a point because that base fought two to four hours for to capture you'd just leave once you captured it. THen it would be taken back again in a couple hours hence. At some point, its all deja vu weither attacking or defending, and it doesnt matter who wins or loses because no side in the conflict neither wins or loses any longterm tangible bennfit.
Personal PvP penalties like decay, or looting their bank credits, wont help PvP, all it will do is reduce the number of combatants. (i want large scale war, not a deathmatch) What you need is something to fight for. Well, at least i do. Long term tangible bennfits to your side of the conflict is where i think it's at.
>>
Ahh, the SW's version of PvP that not everyone can afford. ya lets change the game to accomidate the few people who can say that. *rolls eyes*
You must not like seeing alot of people in deep space. Cause its a good bet, you'd see less than you currently do.
>>I've played other games where pvp is the focus (shadowbane for instance) and unless there is some kind of risk involved, really what's the point?
>>
BTW, shadowbanes not a good example, that game isnt exactly doing good compared to other titles. kinda hanging down there with horizon's by a thread (A GU comic comes to mind
) As to the point, or lack thereof, this isnt a JTL specific issue. All PvP in SWG lacks point. Heck, even my favorite PvP MMO (planetside,) where you fought for land control ultimatly lacked a point because that base fought two to four hours for to capture you'd just leave once you captured it. THen it would be taken back again in a couple hours hence. At some point, its all deja vu weither attacking or defending, and it doesnt matter who wins or loses because no side in the conflict neither wins or loses any longterm tangible bennfit.
Personal PvP penalties like decay, or looting their bank credits, wont help PvP, all it will do is reduce the number of combatants. (i want large scale war, not a deathmatch) What you need is something to fight for. Well, at least i do. Long term tangible bennfits to your side of the conflict is where i think it's at.
PConsole
Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:00 pm
#65
The game has already been changed to accomodate a few loud whiners. What I'm saying is change it BACK. That's quite a difference in point of view there. Shadowbane at its height was popular and there were penalties (some might say severe) and still people went out and played it. I got bored of it, just as I got bored of this game a few months after it came out. I came back for JTL. I enjoy being a pilot - it takes me back to the Wing Commander days.
If you played shadowbane, you'd realize the real game is about control of a zone. Making it safe to level your characters or farm or whatever. The enemies of your guild would send in raiding parties (to get gold or items) and these needed to be dealt with and retribution required so they thought twice about doing it again. Put too much literal mechanics in it (zone controlled by so and so messages) and it takes away from it. Your guild was near a zone. your guild people would level/farm/etc in that zone and you needed to keep them reasonably safe. Pretty simple. Getting slaughtered by raiding parties meant you had to repair which meant farming safely again. You could stop the raiding parties of enemy guilds by raiding their farming groups. A nice neat cycle.
I was unhappy when they took away body retrieval in SWG and its only gone downhill from there.
And there are a hell of a lot of people with much more money than I have. Besides, spend one duty mission (half hour tops) and you'll make 300k easy. Now with that kind of scratch, how can anyone not afford decay? and I'll say it again, if you are so bad a pilot that you can't do these duty missions, then you should definately stay out of PVP.
If you played shadowbane, you'd realize the real game is about control of a zone. Making it safe to level your characters or farm or whatever. The enemies of your guild would send in raiding parties (to get gold or items) and these needed to be dealt with and retribution required so they thought twice about doing it again. Put too much literal mechanics in it (zone controlled by so and so messages) and it takes away from it. Your guild was near a zone. your guild people would level/farm/etc in that zone and you needed to keep them reasonably safe. Pretty simple. Getting slaughtered by raiding parties meant you had to repair which meant farming safely again. You could stop the raiding parties of enemy guilds by raiding their farming groups. A nice neat cycle.
I was unhappy when they took away body retrieval in SWG and its only gone downhill from there.
And there are a hell of a lot of people with much more money than I have. Besides, spend one duty mission (half hour tops) and you'll make 300k easy. Now with that kind of scratch, how can anyone not afford decay? and I'll say it again, if you are so bad a pilot that you can't do these duty missions, then you should definately stay out of PVP.