Pilot Archive
Thread: Lets talk about PvP in deep space
TomoRainer
Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:35 pm
#54
They removed the shield shifting exploit a few months ago, thankfully, though there's still a few of them kicking around out there.
Tumbler2002
Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:50 pm
#55
Few months ago?! They couldn't fix weapon overload 3 as well? I'm getting really fed up with waiting and waiting for a small fix like this.
SheenaBrelya
Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:54 pm
#56
Ducimus wrote:
It's simple really. Dunno if it still works, and i hope it doesnt.
If I remember correctly, it was removed in 2004. The system was still relatively new and there were not a lot of people out and about with 3 or more Pilot Masteries behind them. Those Shields, which are now called exploited but were back then just part of how the system worked, are out there but they are not common.
Shona
Kitten_Starsider
Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:28 am
#57
Tumbler2002 wrote:
The big motivation for PvP should be GCW content and that needs alot of work. But if you like PvP in space why should you have to spend millions of credits on desireable parts (assuming you can even find the really good old stuff anymore) or hundreds of hours grinding duty missions? Wouldn't that time be better spent organizing PvP activity and participating?
I agree that the primary thing JTL needs is more GCW content. They could fix pvp perfectly and if there was nothign to do but blast each other in deep space nothign will change. I really want them to build new battlegrounds in space so that players can be involved in little skirmishes between teh empire and rebellion or right in teh middle of a war raging over Endor. Deathstar and all.
But as one of the few that has spent countless hours grinding my way to the best ship possible I don't like the idea of getting rid of those parts and just using stock ships for pvp. Customizing ships for pvp is a lot of fun imo and I'd recommend to any pilto to become a shipwright asap because it gives you a huge advantage. As long as the pvp damage system stays somewhat close to what it is now ships with less powerful equipment can still compete. And it is fair that players who's spent obscene amounts of time looking for gear will have a slight, or in some cases huge, advantage.
I agree with you here for once on most, except having a huge advantage for anyone even if they did grind for hours). JTL is mostly based on the abilities of the player and curently a lot of parts give you the edge in combat over someone who doesn't PvE all that much.
It is not that equipment should be unimportant (it should pay off if you spend hours to gain those parts) but the center of JTL should be the abilities of the one wielding the joystick. The curent system offers that to a very high degree. Is it fair for players who used to spend time grinding professions to get an additional one that could beat anyone but the imbalanced defense stackers? Is it fair for the person who is the better player to have no chance to someone who had their afk grinding macro running all night?
You are right that better equipment should give an advantage but in no case such a huge advantage. Kinda the reason why shield adjust no longer saves when landing.
@ Ducimus: I think that the real weapon damage is more accurate if you use the average damage and not the max values ((min+max)/2) as the pilot level (fortunately) does not affect the damage output of the weapons.
Kitten
Message Edited by Kitten_Starsider on 04-20-2005 04:30 AM
JediNg
Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:56 am
#58
I'm just tired of people who OBVIOUSLY cannot fly, whining about losing too fast.
OddjobXL
Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:06 am
#59
I'd say all one has to do is read all the post of people bragging about their RE'd parts (many of which have been way toned down but earlier versions are very much in use) and one does get a pretty good idea of what's important. Do we have more posts discussing tactics or more posts about loot?
Like I said, I don't think this is going to change right away if at all but it'd be a good thing for players to keep in mind if PvP in space does start dropping off. Right now folks are just starting to discover JtL Starsider and pick up some piloting skills with groups. But I also remember an early boom in PvP on Starsider followed by a very sharp dropoff in participation before this. Alot of it had to do with the difficulty of competing in PvP with heavily RE'd ships.
PvP in space is the refuge for players with class to compete. It's still that because, it's true, that skill is required even now. However if JtL combat is really about player skill and players really do want to encourage participation: lower the bar. It's quite that simple.
I'll leave it at that. I've already decided that PvP in space as it is is far too much of a hassle for me so I'll be focusing more effort on getting PvE content in there. But, unlike ground PvP which never appealed to me thanks to the quality of the experience or lack thereof, I do miss space PvP more than a bit.
quadpers0n
Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:14 am
#60
OddjobXL wrote:I'd say all one has to do is read all the post of people bragging about their RE'd parts (many of which have been way toned down but earlier versions are very much in use) and one does get a pretty good idea of what's important. Do we have more posts discussing tactics or more posts about loot?Like I said, I don't think this is going to change right away if at all but it'd be a good thing for players to keep in mind if PvP in space does start dropping off. Right now folks are just starting to discover JtL Starsider and pick up some piloting skills with groups. But I also remember an early boom in PvP on Starsider followed by a very sharp dropoff in participation before this. Alot of it had to do with the difficulty of competing in PvP with heavily RE'd ships.PvP in space is the refuge for players with class to compete. It's still that because, it's true, that skill is required even now. However if JtL combat is really about player skill and players really do want to encourage participation: lower the bar. It's quite that simple.I'll leave it at that. I've already decided that PvP in space as it is is far too much of a hassle for me so I'll be focusing more effort on getting PvE content in there. But, unlike ground PvP which never appealed to me thanks to the quality of the experience or lack thereof, I do miss space PvP more than a bit.
if what you were saying was true i would not have 1/3 my kills from a kihrahz with only junk equipment. you don't need great stuff to excell in space. not when it takes 3-5 hits.
you do need great stuff to excell efficiently at pve. also the dropoff you mention could easily be explained by the novelty of a fairly contentless space system wearing off. you have no idea that the dropoff occurred because of pvp difficulty. in fact, i'd say that hypothesis is completely unfounded an inaccurate. what data do you have to support it? people constantly bandy that theory around and there's really no evidence of people saying "whaaa it's too hard i quit."
Ramona_Garcia
Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:28 am
#61
I doubt that gear is that important. Most important piece is a good engine, and with a re'd reward engine you can compete in any pvp battle. I currently fly with a - although lighter - engine that has worse pyr than a decent re'd level 6 engine, and with a 50K mass interceptor. Shield, armor, booster, reactor are all crafted parts. Cap is a re'd level 2 cap anyone can find. engine's re'd, but again, no special stats but weight. Weapon is a re'd level 6 blaster - again, better than most, but worse than some I have seen, and I could easily double my firepowerby choosing two run of the mill weapons and take a TIE Advanced. DI is prenerf looted, but you can do well enough with a current looted and re'd - I get them often enough.
Basically, gear is not the end and all, it often comes up here because tactics are - I think so - for many more intuition, or hard to explain, and we are all, as gamers, prone to talk shop about stats. (And bragghing how you bagged those three pilots in Deep Space won't matter much to anyone who has no idea who they are, while everyone knows a good cap/engine/shield if they see one.)
Slysix
Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:55 pm
#62
No decay in Deep Space is what I find a problem as people are using it to "restore" their uber components even if they do get it damaged outside of Deep Space. All they need to do is hyper to Deep Space and then hyper back and their components are fixed. This is basically causing all those uber components to linger around indefinately. If you have a 4K sheilds...you basically have it forever.
Nothing ever wears out in Deep Space....
Kitten_Starsider
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:18 am
#64
Slysix wrote:
No decay in Deep Space is what I find a problem as people are using it to "restore" their uber components even if they do get it damaged outside of Deep Space. All they need to do is hyper to Deep Space and then hyper back and their components are fixed. This is basically causing all those uber components to linger around indefinately. If you have a 4K sheilds...you basically have it forever.
Nothing ever wears out in Deep Space....
Well and without full repairs in Deep Space PvP would be near dead probably as no one would like to risk their rare, RE'ed (maybe even prenerf) stuff. If people can repair in DS for 30k prestige experience people are at least encouraged to go up and fight...
Kitten
Tumbler2002
Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:26 am
#65
Slysix wrote:No decay in Deep Space is what I find a problem as people are using it to "restore" their uber components even if they do get it damaged outside of Deep Space. All they need to do is hyper to Deep Space and then hyper back and their components are fixed. This is basically causing all those uber components to linger around indefinately. If you have a 4K sheilds...you basically have it forever.Nothing ever wears out in Deep Space....
I agree with you here. I feel that damage that happens in deep space should be fixed on exit. Damage that happens anywhere else should not. Easy way to fix this is to force players to repair any damage before entering deep space. If a damage player comes to stationa nd asks for permission into deep space, sorry must repair first (With decay). Would make sense to offer that service at the deep space station.
And droid programs turned on in deep space need to get turned off on exit. If players want to use lvl 4 programs in deep space fine but when they leave and those systems are repaired the programs should stop running. Being able to run lvl 4 overload programs in normal space and not suffer decay should not be allowed.