Pilot Archive
Thread: Space pvp ...more pointless than ground pvp ??
quadpers0n wrote:dude, watch it. youre just a noob and rapax has been around posting constructive ideas for much much much much longer than you.
you maybe were here in the kessel days, but all of us have been discussing this thread that you may well have been better of necroing, for the better part of a year now. so before you go accusing other people of not being constructive, take a good hard look at your own initial post, then go do a forum search and read all the suggestions hundreds of other pilots have said before. everyone in here has already responded to threads like these 100 times. AND they've responded to constructive threads about PVP 100 more times.
your idea is nothing new, and in fact most players would agree with some kind of mechanic to slightly prolonge pvp for heavier ships.
you want to start a topic on that? do it. don't be surprised if you get alot of "beating a dead horse" posts. you didn't start off on the right foot here so don't go accusing other posters of being unconstructive on your troll thread.
Yes but while i may have not gone about it in the right way to begin with, that wasnt my intention.
Just because he has this supposed reputation does not give him the right to have a go at someone for not being constructive then not be constructive himself.
He wants to ignore the thread perhaps he should of done that in the beginning then i would not of asked for an idea from him. Its easy to find flaws in peoples ideas, anybody can do that.
Had he said ok yeh thats flawed heres a better idea, then that would of been fine. Instead he points out the flaws, and then decides to ignore the thread.
No offense meant, but that does give the impression that he was only interested in the confrontation.
LucifersBane wrote:
So you think the system is perfect, and nothing could be improved.....you are quick to shoot down others ideas , yet supply none of your own ?
Ya i got a suggestion, fix WO3. its the core of alot of problems.
1.) It increases damage output
2.) it, along with CO3, insures that you'll always hae a full capacitor and allows you to spam fire
3.) A full capacitor insures that any single hit can be shunted.
4.) as long as hits can be shunted like that, any damge reduction means alot of us become unkillable.
Fixing it means, no more spam, empty caps to shunt from (which means little shunting), and some might opt to not run WO3 altogether as it will drain the cap too fast for many people, and subsequently reduce damage from lack of WO running.
Ducimus wrote:
Oh, and "U" isnt a freaking word. Is it terribly difficult for you to type out the letters Y, and O to go along with the U?
Gizmarke wrote:
LucifersBane wrote:
Again u are assuming im complaining cause i die. I kill and i die what im saying is i dont think its the most challenging thing to 1 shot kill someone.
Did you ever play America's Army? Sure its a FPS but the principle is still the same. Realism.Thats what makes America's Army and JtL PvP so much fun. All that separates you from death is your skill, a moderate amount of luck and your equipment.
It may be pointless, meaning it doesn't really change anything, but its fun and exciting. (That is assuming you're not getting killed while loading)
Nah not been killed while loading did load in to 3 rebel ships that immediately fired, needless to say i didnt survive but thats part of the game happens on ground too.
I did however send a tell to one of the rebels in the group explaining my ship was bugged (im sure youve all had it, shield doesnt recharge and cap is stuck at 0 so nothing works). I explained i would be coming in just to jump out as this fixes the problem...he said fine and informed the other pilots twice. Yet i load in and immediately one pilot sets upon me.
While im not particular bothered about it as it fixes the problem to. It shows the mentality of some people, whereby they will do anything to kill someone.
Ducimus wrote:
LucifersBane wrote:
So you think the system is perfect, and nothing could be improved.....you are quick to shoot down others ideas , yet supply none of your own ?
Ya i got a suggestion, fix WO3. its the core of alot of problems.
1.) It increases damage output
2.) it, along with CO3, insures that you'll always hae a full capacitor and allows you to spam fire
3.) A full capacitor insures that any single hit can be shunted.
4.) as long as hits can be shunted like that, any damge reduction means alot of us become unkillable.
Fixing it means, no more spam, empty caps to shunt from (which means little shunting), and some might opt to not run WO3 altogether as it will drain the cap too fast for many people, and subsequently reduce damage from lack of WO running.
Agreed and thankyou for posting
Also while there at it, id like them to fix the small hitzone on royal guard interceptor. I happen to like that ship and have it set up nicely, but dont use it because people only complain. Tho it doesnt occur to them that using WO3 has a similar effect.
You can't blame the system that you had lame opponents.
You didn't even address my point that the "1-hit" from death is realistic.
And I am all for realistic gaming. Maybe I just played America's Army too much, but seeing someone with a t-21 rifle shoot someone 30 times and it still being alive doesn't seem right to me. There should be consequences for getting hit and entering combat. The system is far too forgiving as it is IMO.
If you know that you are outnumbered, the chances that you're not going to die are very small. Entering combat means at some point you will die, nothing will change this, its just a matter of time. This is even more true for PvP.
Gizmarke wrote:You can't blame the system that you had lame opponents.
You didn't even address my point that the "1-hit" from death is realistic.
And I am all for realistic gaming. Maybe I just played America's Army too much, but seeing someone with a t-21 rifle shoot someone 30 times and it still being alive doesn't seem right to me. There should be consequences for getting hit and entering combat. The system is far too forgiving as it is IMO.
If you know that you are outnumbered, the chances that you're not going to die are very small. Entering combat means at some point you will die, nothing will change this, its just a matter of time. This is even more true for PvP.
I addressed the 1 hit being releastic back on page 2, but to sumarise basically for that arguement you would have to make ground pvp the same and surely pve combat too ?
In that case lightsabers 1 hit kill, blasters 1 hit kill etc. Rifleman with 80m arms would have a huge huge advantage over normal melee, and jedi. Unless the 80% block was brought back, and some sort of method for melee to get in close.
i wasnt blaming the system either for that incident, i was just pointing out that some people will do anything for a kill wasnt really relevant to the topic.
Actually, I agree with the one shot kills sucks. Its not so much about skill but spamming chaff or decoys while trying not to get shot once and dodging missiles at the same time. In the old X-Wing games, every ship took about 3-4 shots before the kaboom if you were in anything better than a TIE Fighter. I guess I'm used to that.
I do miss the dogfights. It wouldn't be so bad if you could just jump right in again but that in my opinion, missiles are kind of making it unfair. You never see missiles flying at starfighters in the movies, its just straight up dogfighting with lasers. You cant dodge a missile unless you have countermeasures. In my mind, it takes no skill to fire a missile, but it takes skill to only use and dodge blaster fire.
With the downtime associated with getting back to Deep Space only to be one shoted by a missile upon loading, that really sucks.
Heck, I wish that those space stations to Kessel and Deep Space would only give rare space quests like unlocking the ability to hyper to Kessel or Deep Space at anytime. You could make the calculations to last longer on those coordinates to simulate some downtime. That would be sweet.
Its not that I have ADD, when I'm in the killing mood, I don't want to have downtime to snap out of it and lose my zone!
Why would the ground system have to follow suit? It doesn't at the moment. They are different systems, its a fallacy to assume that they have to be done similarly. Unless they change the ground game to a 'twitch' style there is no room for one-hit PvP or PvE. Though getting one-hit incapped / killed on the nice long trip to the Village on Dathomir is another story all-together...
If they did change the ground game to a FPS, I would have NO problems at all to it being more realistic. I would be really excited at seeing that kind of system put in place. Though it would be VERY difficult from a technical POV. But in theory if lag was minimal it would make the game a LOT more interesting.
LucifersBane wrote:
i wasnt blaming the system either for that incident, i was just pointing out that some people will do anything for a kill wasnt really relevant to the topic.
Agreed, but those types of players are everywhere in online games. Thats what my 'default expectations' are for those circumstances. Always assume the worst, then you can only be happily surprised if / when you meet a courteous opponent. Its very hard to separate the kind of emotional reaction to being attacked in PvP from the reality of what actually happened. Aside for griefers, I don't really think that most players PvP just to bring someone else down. I see plenty of posts thanking the other side for a well-fought fight.
Back in my America's Army days there would be lamers that would nade spawn points. Over time you would learn how to expect the worst and work around it. Then in end-game situations when you have someone resembling a courteous opponent, it wouldn't be uncommon to congratulate them on a good kill if you lost. Perhaps that approach is a bit too reactionary and blaming the system that would allow lame kills like that would be valid as well. Regardless of thatI think that in a realistic style of gaming, like JtL's twitch setup,quick deaths are part of them.Have to take the good with the bad. You're allowed your opinion of course, but I really wouldn't like to see a PvP nerf come to space. I'd rather they fix a whole slew of balance and system performance issues before they go around trying to balance space pvp.
I mean they give a lot of notice to you before you agree to go to DS or go overt, not much fault I can find with the system other than load kills. Its far from perfect though.
Message Edited by Gizmarke on 08-23-2005 09:49 PM
Aww, I missed all the fun. Still, I'm too mouthy not to speak up.
Why not start with some facts?
- Space PvP is NOT a 1-hit death. Or at least, it very seldom is. Most of the time I hear people claim this when they got hit several times and didn't know it. In fact, in the average PvP battle, I shunt off several hits, including some missiles, and I'm only running level 7 shields.
If the OP really was toasted in an Oppressor, then they're doing something severely wrong. Small shield, poor armor, no shield modifiers? Flying in a straight line?
Just saying, you can't base your entire argument around this if it simply isn't true. If you still think it's true, you have a lot to learn.
- "There's no skill, just good equipment." Actually, that's a lie too. I fly a 50k ship with average RE'd parts. Now granted, against a few of my server's aces I'm dog meat in this ship, but against 99% of my opponents I feel that I'm on a competitive edge with them. In fact, in large PvP battles I do just fine. I'm only running a level 7 shield compared to most level 8s, and yet I can still absorb hits just fine. Skill and knowing how to handle my ship makes up for equipment.
And before launching into the WO3 argument, I run all level 4 overloads most of the time. 
Seriously mate. If PvP lasted for more than a few shots, dogfights would last forever. You would, litereally, never shoot me down. Not because I'm that good, but because of the mechanics of JTL PvP. An evening of PvP fights can leave me exhausted, from sweaty dogfights and frantic manuevers, but it's far from easy or dull.
And just to add one more thing, to echo the advice of others: Don't come in here making a point that's been beat to death and start insulting some of the long time posters. Especially someone like Repax, who has established himself very nicely as a veteran who knows what he's talking about. It's not that we need to consider your ideas, it's that they simply aren't new or correct.
really, a far far better topic would be how to address the disparity between the perceptions of inexperienced pilots and experienced ones, because really lots of people initially think PVP is too fast and over too quick. give them 50 fights and they all, with little exception, change their mind.
i do think this perception is a problem. i think it probably is responsible for scaring away 15-25% of would be PVP practicioners.
personally i'd much rather see people come up with ideas on how to rectify that, rather than how to change a mechanic that actually does work very very well, with a few exceptions.