Pilot Archive

There is no peace, there is anger.
There is no fear, there is power.
There is no death, there is immortality.
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness.
I know no fear, but rather I instil it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds.
I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate.
All the Universe bows before me, I pledge myself to the Darkness.
For I have found true life, in the death of the light.

There is no peace, there is anger.
There is no fear, there is power.
There is no death, there is immortality.
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness.
I know no fear, but rather I instil it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds.
I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate.
All the Universe bows before me, I pledge myself to the Darkness.
For I have found true life, in the death of the light.

Major Rapax Victis - Commando
Time wasted playing MMO's:
Meridian59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Eve Online, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies
"I'm really bored."
...has mastered the Pilot profession

About the notion that A-wings can survive for longer in the current PvP system...

Yep, they sure can!

And that makes a very important point... rightnow, there is only one ship style, and only one play style, that has any participation in the PvP game at all.

There's no place for the ship (like the A-10 or the B-17 IRL) that are legendary for taking unbelieveable amounts of damage and still bringing their pilots home alive. There's no place for the special abilities of POB ships (repair in space -- you're dead before the radial menu stops throbbing on a component, heavier components -- don't matter, lots of missiles, turrets, etc) or bombers or even all-purpose space superiority fighters.

Right now, no size shield can stand up to any reasonable size gun in PvP. There is no choice to be made, you can only choose to fly one particular style in only a couple of possible ships.

Bear with me on this, let me sell you on how a PvP damage nerf will bring diversity to the space lanes. Think about rock-paper-scissors. With a damage nerf to the point that shields, armor, and hull are meaningfully balanced against guns, we can hopefullyget to a situation like this:

Bombers (B-wings and the like)fear fast interceptors (A-wings and the like), because they can't turn well enough to bring their frontal guns and missiles to bear, so the interceptor can get behind them easily and take them out.

Fast interceptors fear POB ships (like Novas, etc), because they have turrets that can track them, and have no blind spot to approach from, where they can't be shot back at. A light interceptor will take return damage to shield, and the POB will be able to recover shield damage faster than the interceptor can recover shield for the next attack. The POB can also recover damage and keep in the fight. The interceptor would have a really hard time wearing down a POB to kill it, but only a couple lucky shots from the POB will atomize the interceptor.

POB ships fear bombers, because they have shields that are nearly as tough as the POB, but with several times the facing weaponry. Bombers can line up a POB, and lay in enough damage to take it out in a pass or two, taking comparatively little shield damage in return.

POB ships to some degree would create a space hazard to all hostiles, so they become strategic targets and assets, worthy of dedicating a crew to.

Balanced space superiority fighters would be not quite as good as the specialized interceptors and bombers at their jobs, but would have a supporting role in lots of actions.

Escorts (turreted fighters) would be useful for expanding and supporting the danger zone around POB ships.

So, if that kind of balancing came to pass, there would actually be a meaningful reason to take nearly every ship (in some capacity or other) in to PvP. Interceptors and superiority fighters would still rule the PvP roost in random encountes, as they should, but there would be a reason for pilots of other craft to participate, instead of just staying on the ground or grinding more kimos for loot.

mal

Can't really bring in examples like the B-17, or A-10... only thing equal to that is a POB ship (with escorts like a B-17 could survive especially with a full crew, doc, repairman... FireSpray is comparable to an A-10 if so.. my FireSpray did just fine in DS PvP... besides the Intercepter it's all I used!)

I see your logic, I personally don't agree with it even though you laid it out quite eloquintly. Personally I believe it's even easier to fix.

FIX the droid programs. How many shots should it take to take out a fighter? BWings, TIE Bombers... I understand they have more mass = more armour.. but how long does a PvP encounter have to last to make people happy?

If you one shot kill me... I'd be damn surprised, even in my squint. My Firespray would constantly surprise people who thought they could one-shot kill me.

My only problem with PvP in space right now is finding Rebels to decorate the side of my ship with.

There is no peace, there is anger.
There is no fear, there is power.
There is no death, there is immortality.
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness.
I know no fear, but rather I instil it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds.
I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate.
All the Universe bows before me, I pledge myself to the Darkness.
For I have found true life, in the death of the light.

Hey, that's cool!

Agreement isn't required to discuss things agreeably. And I thank you for reading and not flaming.

And yes, there is a lot of fun to be had in quick engagements, too.

mal

I've played A LOT of flight sim MMO's before SWG. Air Warrior 1-3, ACE's high, etc.. There's a fundamental difference between the way Ground Based MMO players go at it in forums and the way "pilots" discuss things.

Compare it to let's say World War 1 flying Ace's. Those guys may have been rivals in the skies but held great respect for each others abilities. My dream for JTL is that kind of interaction between pilots. I've got plenty of XWings painted on the side of my TIE but every single time I send them a tell saying "Nice fight" or "That was cool when you...."

In all the flight-sim games I played in the past there were no npc's, it was all PvP. Honestly, the way PvP kills are wrking in JTL is "almost" the same. I remember flying my P51 and getting scattered to the four winds by a JU88. Total time of engagement was probably 30 seconds - 2 minutes depending on the skill of the pilots.

I don't think we should be thinking in terms of... how many laser blasts can you take before you pop. I'm more interested in how many manuevors can you pull off before you pop. I'd like to see more style and grace than Hit the booster and boom!

One hint I have for people in PvP, as soon as you see that player (if you're using your shift+tab the way you should be you'll see them 4-5k out) get moving! Don't joust him, turn, roll, pull immelman's whatever is neccesary. Without things like gravity and friction those manuevorts can be quite affective.

Also, take the time to check out the stickies in the Pilot Forum FAQ, "Learning to fly" "K.I.S.S series" these all give valuable info that make the differnce between two shot kills and exciting PvP. Also, to practive PvP with a friend, arm your ships with LvL 1 disruptors and duel each other, great practice!

There is no peace, there is anger.
There is no fear, there is power.
There is no death, there is immortality.
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness.
I know no fear, but rather I instil it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds.
I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate.
All the Universe bows before me, I pledge myself to the Darkness.
For I have found true life, in the death of the light.

Actually, A-wings vs. bombers is not as onesidedas you think - a load of missiles from an oppressor is what we are using in our large-scale space battles to take down a-wings, with Advanceds and Interceptors to escort the oppressors.

Ramona Garcia
Dancer
Neutron Pixies


A couple of stories

There is no peace, there is anger.
There is no fear, there is power.
There is no death, there is immortality.
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness.
I know no fear, but rather I instil it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds.
I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate.
All the Universe bows before me, I pledge myself to the Darkness.
For I have found true life, in the death of the light.

As I understand it ... there is already a 75% PvP reduction in space.

Most heavy fighters can bring 3 level 8 guns to bear on a target. They tend to be 2000-3000 dmg 0.640 effect when looted.

Take the average damage ofa gun:2500

Factor the number of guns: 3x1600 = 4800

Factor PvP Reduction: 4800 x 0.25 = 1200

A heavy fighter or MP ship could have maybe 2500 from his shields and maybe the same again in armour, factoring 5000 protection. The guns fire multiple times a second, usually a minimum of twice a second. So against the heavyiest target you're talking 5000/1200 = 4.1667full volley hitsto kill them or about 2 seconds.

Alight-medium fighter may be harder to hit, but their protection level is a lot less

theory and practise don't always agree

Iwonder if it would encourage more people and morevariety etc if the following were implemented:

1. Launch/respawn from space base ... e.g. imperials launch from the star destroyer etc. ... people are back in the action quicker.

2. Variable PvP reduction in place of existing 75% reduction. Light fighters having 75%, medium 80%, heavy 85%, MP ships 95%

GrimBear

Currently it is 25%

There is no peace, there is anger.
There is no fear, there is power.
There is no death, there is immortality.
There is no weakness, there is the Dark Side. I am the Heart of Darkness.
I know no fear, but rather I instil it in my enemies. I am the destroyer of worlds.
I know the power of the Dark Side. I am the fire of hate.
All the Universe bows before me, I pledge myself to the Darkness.
For I have found true life, in the death of the light.