Pilot Archive
Thread: RGI: Love It Or Hate It?
Thradd wrote:
So what you're saying is that the RGI is kind of like the fully templated Jedi Knight of fighters? I can live with that.
Did some experimenting last night. In both PVE and PVP the RGI can and does get hit. And, I found out painfully, it can be blown to bits by blasters and not just missiles.
In PVE I was helping some people on the Lord Chessiepants (sp?) mission. You know the one where 30 tier 12 cruisers and 50 tier 12 B-22s spawn. Not only was God Mode off but I felt like I was playing on Legendary with a broken controller. It was nasty. We eventually got it but not before all of us (full group of 8 aces...all damn good pilots) took at least one trip to the space station.
My PVP test was a little more brutal. I've only been shot down 3 in PVP times in my old Interceptor and once in a JSF. My skills are there and on point. First round of tests were against a trio of JSFs who didnt know they were part of a test. They were camping the entry point to DS and playing with the ISD when I came in. I was loadkilled so fast I never even got the cutscene. So I send a couple of wingmates with faster connectctions in there to clear it out for me. By the time I load in my wingmen are dusted but I'm free to fly. I get a few typical /tells from the loadkillers. Then it's on. I'd say it was over in about 2min. One of the pilots was very good. The other two had no idea what was going on and took a couple of image recs down the gullet (and of course they flamed me for using missiles). The 3rd pilot caught me with a shot as I was looping around a vette. he caught me right in the face with it. Sloppy flying on my part. Had to CtSS. I came up between 2 reb gunboats and he lost me for a few seconds and I was able to get under him and blaster him to death. We each sent a /salute and that was that.
I then saw a B-wing pilot farming loot and asked him if he would blast me a few times. He thought I was crazy but agreed to it. I can't remember the stats on his weapons but I know they are crushing what I run on my Decimator and those are around 4200 each. I have 1900 f/b shields and no armor so needless to say if he hits me once I should be dead. I sat still and let him blast me6 times. Once from each direction. From the top, bottom, left, and right sides I was one shot killed. From the front and back it took him 2 hits to kill me.
I'm not sure exactly what, if anything, this proves, but I am still not 100% sure that the RGI is bugged. I will say that it is MUCH harder to hit an RGI than it is to hit a regular Interceptor but that's to be expected.
And as for RGI Pilots, 99% of the RGI pilots I know were already damn fine pilots before they ever got an RGI. So if you couple a damn good pilot with the Emperor's elite fighter of course that thing is going to be hard to hit. hard..but not impossible. I have also seen that most Imp Aces are flying Oppressors or JSFs. Only a handful are willing to cut mass and fly the RGI.
As hard as the RGI is to hit I'm sure there are more than a few reb pilots out there who have stories about smashing the ego of an RGI pilot.
And although I hate to say it...and it pains me to say it....EO3 is a "cheaters" overload and needs to be fixed. But I don't know a single pilot who doesn't use it. Even the ones who say RGIs and JSF/B-22s are overpowered/unbalalnced are most likely running EO3.
The only "I Win" button in space is a JSF with space bombs. Ouch
once pilots know where to aim the IGI is only slightly harder than a JSF to take down. blasters will definately do the trick, all they have to do is aim for the scalp. if it were true what some people were saying about the hitbox being displaced i'd tend to fall on the side of it being a bug, but 10 minutes of dueling a stationary player in an IGI with weak weapons is enough to see where the hitbox really is. everyone can go up to space and try it out.
considering that, i'm starting to think it's not a bug at all, but rather by design. think about it: ROTW comes out with THREE nearly identically hitboxed ships which extend the life of PVP (light fighter vs light fighter) tenfold. why is the JSF/IGI/B22 hitbox so small? why not make it a-wing size? i'm starting to believe that the devs did not listen to the calculated responses of many experienced PVP veterans and instead coddled to the whining masses and slowed the pace of PVP down purposefully.
in true dev fashion however, they neglected what would happen to the casual pilots and inexperienced pilots who fly larger ships. perhaps this is due to a planned titanic increase in POB ship strength, perhaps not. i'm hoping it's the latter.
no, to assume it's bugged is wrong i think, everything points to it being an intentional disparity.
>>
I think i said as much somewhere else. As damage goes theres two ways to reduce it.
- Mitgation (aka damge reduction)
- Avoidance (small hitbox increases damage avoidance)
They probably looked at it long enough to realize mitagation wasnt the answer, so they went with increasing avoidance without thinking it out entirely as it was the only option left? I dunno, i got my tinfoil hat on right now.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-18-2005 03:05 PM
Ducimus wrote:
IL-Vec wrote:
in my experience its not bugged for size but for placement
Well according to quadperson in the pilot issues thread, the RGI 's hitbox is almost exactly the same size of a JSF. In addition its well established that only a hit in the upper hemisphere of the ball will regester a hit.
This would collaborate your theory with placment.
I'm pretty sure it's actually at least half the size. In fact...
i doubt it's half the size.
like i said, go into third person view, and pull the camera angle up above your ship (while you are in a IGI).
have your buddy park his JSF directly inbetween your IGI's wings.
you'll end up with the JSF fitting directly in between the the IGI's front wings with room to spare. now look at the JSF and look at the ball on the IGI. i'm 100% sure the entire top of the ball of the IGI is the hitbox, I'd even bet it's EXACTLY the top hemisphere of the ball.
now compare that to the hittable area of the JSF (you can miss on the edges of the wings and the nose). if the IGI is smaller, it's not by much.
i'll try to get a screenshot of this later on today, but it's easy enough to replicate your own if you want.
Message Edited by quadpers0n on 07-18-2005 05:26 PM
Ducimus wrote:
LeaphChausew wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's actually at least half the size. In fact...
I think its really hard to visual gauage that. Im thinking we'd need an acutal hard comparision. Sit a JSF and RGT side by side and shoot at em basically. In two words..
Probbing fire.
I suspect that part of what were visually seeing with the RGT is an optical illusion. It could very well be the hitboxes are identical in size but the RGT appears smaller because its hitbox is superimposed on a larger airframe. Put the same hitbox over a smaller airframe and it would appear very differently. At least thats my guess.
thats exactly what i think too. you look at the IGI and you expect the box to be huge, then when you look at the scalp of the ball that's all you see. but it takes actaully figuring out the dimensions of a JSF then comparing the two side by side to really see.
Im afraid that all three ships are infact near idential in size with their hitbox, with the RGtie being fundamentally flawed in this design by virtue of its airframe... its very airframe becoming a shield to the hitbox.
I mean, say you have a 2 by 2 hitbox over a 2 by 2 air frame. Theres no extra wings or what not sticking out of the ship to obstruct the hitbox. THen take the same 2 by 2 box, and put it in a 4 by 4 frame in the shape of a tie interceptor. Now we have extra panelling and large air frame obscuring the box.
If **IF** this is indeed the case what are the options?
1.) Increase the size of the hitbox? This would be a reverseal of the situation. Instead of being harder to hit, it becomes much easier to hit. As one of the "unholy three ROTW ships", this would basicaly remove its reason to exist i think. It would put the RG tie at a disadvantage and only encourage more JSF usage.
2.) leave it as is?
Dunno, i think lots of crying would occur
3.) make all three hitboxes the size of the increased RGT hitbox? It would restore balance and lessen damage avoidance and remove the 20 min dogfights maybe.
I like this idea personally, all 3 ships should be the same since they only compare to one another and not anything else in the game.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-18-2005 04:21 PM
Ducimus wrote:
3.) make all three hitboxes the size of the increased RGT hitbox? It would restore balance and lessen damage avoidance and remove the 20 min dogfights maybe.
I like this idea personally, all 3 ships should be the same since they only compare to one another and not anything else in the game.
Ducimus wrote:
1.) Increase the size of the hitbox? This would be a reverseal of the situation. Instead of being harder to hit, it becomes much easier to hit. As one of the "unholy three ROTW ships", this would basicaly remove its reason to exist i think. It would put the RG tie at a disadvantage and only encourage more JSF usage.
Rhu wrote:
This would also have a side effect of putting the Vaksai closer to being in the same league as the "unholies," for better or worse.
Oh ya, forgot about that guy. Only ever seen one in PvP. Regardless of faction, Its always JSF, or B22.
Ducimus wrote:
I'll tell ya what im afraid of. Im afraid the RG tie maybe fundamentally flawed.
Im afraid that all three ships are infact near idential in size with their hitbox, with the RGtie being fundamentally flawed in this design by virtue of its airframe... its very airframe becoming a shield to the hitbox.
As an Interceptor pilot I wouldn't really call that a flaw but a great design feature from the boys and girls at Sienar
I mean, say you have a 2 by 2 hitbox over a 2 by 2 air frame. Theres no extra wings or what not sticking out of the ship to obstruct the hitbox. THen take the same 2 by 2 box, and put it in a 4 by 4 frame in the shape of a tie interceptor. Now we have extra panelling and large air frame obscuring the box.
If **IF** this is indeed the case what are the options?
1.) Increase the size of the hitbox? This would be a reverseal of the situation. Instead of being harder to hit, it becomes much easier to hit. As one of the "unholy three ROTW ships", this would basicaly remove its reason to exist i think. It would put the RG tie at a disadvantage and only encourage more JSF usage.
Yes and no. It would indeed encourage more JSF use. However, it is still an Interceptor with nearly double the mass of the original which is more than enough reasonfor it toexisit. Any Interceptor pilot will tell you how much just 10k extra mass can do. Large hitbox or not, in the hands of a good pilot with an exceptional engine that ship is still going to be hard as hell to hit.
2.) leave it as is?
Dunno, i think lots of crying would occur
No matter what SOE does people will cry.
3.) make all three hitboxes the size of the increased RGT hitbox? It would restore balance and lessen damage avoidance and remove the 20 min dogfights maybe.
I like this idea personally, all 3 ships should be the same since they only compare to one another and not anything else in the game.
There already is ballance to the Unholy Three (nice job whoever coined that one). Look at the stats of the Ships
JSF/B-22
Acceleration 50
Deceleration 50
Pitch Rate 600
Yaw Rate 600
Roll Rate 300
Speed Modifier 0.95
2 weps 1 ord
RGI
Acceleration 40
Deceleration 60
Pitch Rate 300
Yaw Rate 300
Roll Rate 150
Speed Modifier 1.0
1 wep 1 ord
I don't think all 3 ships should have the exact same stats. The ballancecomes in other areas. Like with the hit box being a bit harder to hit and the ship being faster while a bit less manuverable than the other two. Just my 2cr
>>
I was intentionally glossing over that.
What i want, is an even playing field. I really dont want to give anyone an excuse to nerf the RGI and leave at some sort of disadvantage in nonclamture in relation to other ROTW ships in its class.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-18-2005 05:30 PM
i would advise people to just get used to it. WO3 has been broken for how long? how many areas of JTL does that absurd bug affect? bug or not the IGI is going to be something the empire is going to use for months to come so you all better get good at using missles.
