Pilot Archive
Thread: The FS Conversion Dead Horse
Coran_Sienar wrote:Jedi and their wannabes can have the FS conversion when Pilot skills take actual skill points to earn.
QFE!
How did i miss this little gem of a quote. Short, simple, to the point. Damn thats practically sig worthy!
AnzelVincir wrote:
psikobunny wrote:
Jedi isn't content, it's cancer. Content isn't a mindless sinkhole for your experience, it's clever things to do and places to play. Address these things for me if you would.
- expanding the Jedi system does nothing to add to the health of the game. More ways to become jedi equals more jedi, throwing things further out of balance. No, it doesn't. It would still take the same amount of time. If you spend one hour in space or if you spend one hour on the ground it's still one hour. That about as basic as math can be. But my guess is that you already know that and are just grasping at stuff for some other reason. Same amount of time only you don't seem to have the math down quite right Anzel. 1 hour of "grinding" on the ground means that one player gets all the XP for themselves. In space, if 30 people hit a ship, all 30 get the same amount of XP. There are static spawns in space that would be camped all day, every day, with FS players macro-grinding millions of XP per hour. Comparing space play to ground play in the way you're doing it is naive or deliberately ignorant of reality.
- using some of the limited Dev time for Pilot/space on FS conversion is a waste, when it could be better used on things appropriate and needed in space (ie actual content). It's not a simple matter of coming up with a fair rate and plugging it into the tables. Rates of gain between different pilot groups would have to be checked, missions would need to be balanced. All that takes time away from other things. Looking at all the RotW stuff, I'm glad they didn't. This is one of my favorites. "Limited Dev Time". Again, basic math there buddy. Multiply 250,000 by $14.99every month (not year... month) and I'm pretty sure they can cover it... Where do you get your figures? Not every player is on a month-to-month payment plan, and while I can understand using those numbers to make a point, all the money doesn't go directly back to the game and the developers. It's not 100% profit. Not to mention that psiko is at least talking about *what* the devs might work on, not if they're getting paid to do it should be forced into overtime hours to get it done.
- It's easy to see thefact that in FS conversion Space, every pilot would have to deal with a cap on PP. It's a design point of the FS Village that xp is capped, forcing multiple visits. There is no way they would open FS conversion in space and not implement a cap. Justify this to the Aces that have multi-millions and would lose it. Justify this to the people who have no interest in becoming Jedi, and would lose out if anything else would ever get added using Prestige. Justify the dead time for the non FS pilots who cap. I will bet you cash there are more of them than there are peopleinterested in FS grinding in space. First, there is nothing to substantiate an immenent cap of PP. Second, one hour of play in space should be the same as one of play on the ground. I can repeat that as many times as you need me to until you get it. Keep making red herring arguments and I'll keep reiterating myself. Way to dodge what was said. The *DESIGN* of the Village process is to force multiple visits. If conversion of space XP or PP got implemented without a cap put in place, it would only exacerbate the problems that have been outlined in previous points and posts. Fleets of grinders in space all the time until they reach the level needed to visit the village, convert and train up all 6 trees. That would indeed mean a flood of Padawans, and even *more* demands to the Devs that getting to Jedi be made "easier" because of visibility problems (with that many Jedi-wannabes running around I would suspect it would be almost impossible to find someplace remote enough to avoid raising visibility to the point of getting on the terminals).
Alienating the biggest participators in Space in the name of an "improvement" does nothing to help the game. I can think of several people who have done a lot to make Space better for hundreds of pilots who would give up if this change was implemented. If you really want to see more high end content than Jedi, let the devs work on it. Stop shoving there nose back to the Jedi trough with requests for focused Jedi "content"
Dude, we get it. You don't like Jedi. You need to tone it down a little bit there though. If you don't like Jedi then playing a Star Wars game may not be the best choice...
Ducimus wrote:
Coran_Sienar wrote:
Jedi and their wannabes can have the FS conversion when Pilot skills take actual skill points to earn.
QFE!
How did i miss this little gem of a quote. Short, simple, to the point. Damn thats practically sig worthy!
I know you all think that this is the 'gotcha' argument for no FS conversion but the truth is that most people don't really care one way or another about skill points for pilot. Have you been in space lately? There's nobody up there. That's because people are only using JTL as a means to travel. If pilot was a woth while profession then nobody would care one way or another about skill points.
Again, nobody is suggesting that the FS grind become shorter or easier through the use of a PP conversion. It would be just as long and it would be harder since you would have to actually be in front of your computer to do it.
The whole, "you're trying to get to Jedi faster" and "It should take skill points" arguments are null and void. They have nothing to do with the overall quality of enjoyment and are simply a means to control what other players can and can't do.
AnzelVincir wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
Coran_Sienar wrote:Jedi and their wannabes can have the FS conversion when Pilot skills take actual skill points to earn.
QFE!
How did i miss this little gem of a quote. Short, simple, to the point. Damn thats practically sig worthy!I know you all think that this is the 'gotcha' argument for no FS conversion but the truth is that most people don't really care one way or another about skill points for pilot. Have you been in space lately? There's nobody up there. That's because people are only using JTL as a means to travel. If pilot was a woth while profession then nobody would care one way or another about skill points.
Again, nobody is suggesting that the FS grind become shorter or easier through the use of a PP conversion. It would be just as long and it would be harder since you would have to actually be in front of your computer to do it.
The whole, "you're trying to get to Jedi faster" and "It should take skill points" arguments are null and void. They have nothing to do with the overall quality of enjoyment and are simply a means to control what other players can and can't do.
Pilot is free in skill point. Asking for FS conversion from pilot is much akin to asking for something, for nothing. The act, of a begger.
AnzelVincir wrote:
Damn, some of these objections just reek of jealousy. Too bad the devs actually listen to such hatred and fear instead of making changes that actually improve the game...
Damn right i didnt read all of it. Your a jedi fanboi, you want your cake and you want to eat it to. You want SOE to cater to your whims, and like a spoiled child you will try everything you can, and scream and cry and whine, until you get your way.
There is nothing ANYONE could EVER say that will convince you otherwise. Hence any discussion with you, is absolutly pointless. You simply want YOUR way, no more no less. The only reason i reply to this BS thread at at all, is just to have fun with you. Because thats all it's good for.
Ducimus wrote:
There is nothing ANYONE could EVER say that will convince you otherwise. Hence any discussion with you, is absolutly pointless. You simply want YOUR way, no more no less. The only reason i reply to this BS thread at at all, is just to have fun with you. Because thats all it's good for.
Ducimus wrote:
AnzelVincir wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
Coran_Sienar wrote:
Jedi and their wannabes can have the FS conversion when Pilot skills take actual skill points to earn.
QFE!
How did i miss this little gem of a quote. Short, simple, to the point. Damn thats practically sig worthy!
While you're at it put this in your sig as well. "FS players will use skill points for pilot when vehicle control works in space"
I know you all think that this is the 'gotcha' argument for no FS conversion but the truth is that most people don't really care one way or another about skill points for pilot. Have you been in space lately? There's nobody up there. That's because people are only using JTL as a means to travel. If pilot was a woth while profession then nobody would care one way or another about skill points.
Again, nobody is suggesting that the FS grind become shorter or easier through the use of a PP conversion. It would be just as long and it would be harder since you would have to actually be in front of your computer to do it.
The whole, "you're trying to get to Jedi faster" and "It should take skill points" arguments are null and void. They have nothing to do with the overall quality of enjoyment and are simply a means to control what other players can and can't do.
Pilot is free in skill point. Asking for FS conversion from pilot is much akin to asking for something, for nothing. The act, of a begger.
Message Edited by AnzelVincir on 04-15-2005 02:19 PM
MonsofoLexius wrote:
From what I have gathered in my focus threads and from PM's and in-game is this:
"Most pilots (by about a 75%+ margin) would much rather hope for something space related for prestige rather then a FS conversion". An overwhelming majority wouldwant to hold out for stuff rather then have a FS conversion.
Personally I would agree with them, but if even 50% wanted a FS conversion I would push for it. But it has been under a 25% percentage that have been 1) Really wanting 2) On the fence, and that tends to have me push for other stuff differentfrom a FS conversion...
Message Edited by AnzelVincir on 04-18-2005 11:13 AM
AnzelVincir wrote:
Also, you polled the player base in the pilot forum who consist of mainly people who don't like the ground game and some who absolutely despise Jedi. Try posing the same question to the folks over in the Force Sensitive forum and I'll betcha you get much different results...Thanks again...
AnzelVincir wrote:
Don't believe me? Look at THIS THREAD in the FS forum. Yes, you guessed it...
MonsofoLexius wrote:
AnzelVincir wrote:Try posing the same question to the folks over in the Force Sensitive forum and I'll betcha you get much different results...Thanks again...Thats always a tought one. If you polled the BH forums an overwhelming majority would want to hunt Jedi in space. If you polled the Jedi forums an overwhelming majority would want to have special abilities. If you polled the Smuggler forums they would want to have restricted movement and/or many special smuggler only missions.
Would these things be better for pilots in general? Maybe yes maybe no, but the compairisons could go on for a long time. What I have always tried to do is take no profession (or the FS posting group) over the rest of the pilots. One of my famous personal quotes from my time in restaurant managment regarding focus groups is "beware of asking a question of a specific group when you allready know what the answer will be" and I think asking this in the FS group would get the same "yes" answer as things like "would you like for easier conversion rates?", "would you want special bonuses for ******".
Bingo. The Pilot and JtL forums are full of the people who fly. They are the people who are out there and come to the forums because they care what happens to the Pilot professions and space in general. Going to the Smuggler forum and asking 'Should the Devs add Smuggler-based content to space now?' is lip-service, nothing more. Asking that question in the Pilot and/or JtL forums and you will get responses from a wide range of Pilots, including several prominent Smuggler-Pilots, and I believe you will get an answer closer to what would be best for the Pilot Profession as a whole, if not space in general.
Shona
Message Edited by SheenaBrelya on 04-18-2005 12:22 PM