Pilot Archive
Thread: FOTM Jedi Starfighter....
Vegitaa <== Hates NERF cries. I have since they NERF'ed BH's back in the day, then AT-ST's, then CH's, then .. well the list goes on.
Is balance needed in JTL? Probably, I've seen a lot of well thought out arguements for bringing the new ships into balance. Most have centered on reducing YPR and leaving mass as is at first. Maybe adjusting mass in a second pass.
My big problem with all of it, the Dev's have NEVER nerf'ed something just a little. It's always nerf it into uselessness.
Last thing I want in JTL is me or anyone else to have an "I Win" ship. Especially since it makes people think "He just shot me down because he has that ship." In some cases that is definately true. But I was PvP'ing in the original TIE Intercepter long before these ships came out, quite successfully I might add. AWings were tough at that point. Yeah, I know the advanced had better stats for PvP but I wanted to fly an intercepter.
So, I am not calling for a NERF. I won't jump up and down and lose my mind if it happens either. I just don't want to see these ships become useless, that shouldn't happen. So, I'd like to see middleground, I know that is asking alot on the forums actually.
Personally, I fly the ships I fly for the look and style. I like my JSF for faction farming in DS, I like my RG TIE for PvP, I use my Oppressor for mining, and I have a Heavy TIE for just screwin around. I'll agree that there's some balance issues, but I'll also say that we'd be really screwed if we just let bad pilots determine what is and isn't balanced.
When Ritha says, it's out of balance. I listen. When Viduus says, it's out of balance, I listen. When some guy who just got shot down 20 times says it's out of balance... I have to ask myself if he knew what he was doing in the first place.
There's a difference between a CL80 saying NERF BH they own everytime in PvP and a CL15 saying the samething. I'm in it for the pilots. I want good clean fun in JTL. I want to see that it's possible for eveyone to have the same possiblity of getting ships with good stats not just one faction or the other.
So, take that as you will. I'm not for, nor against a well thought out and carefully tested balance of these new ships. On the otherhand a blind nerf motivated by screaming newb's would do more damage than good in my experience with the Dev teams.
Hey! I resent that!
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Vegitaa wrote:
Double-checked. You're right.
The three new "heavy's, the JSF, Grievous have identical YPR's.
But I must say, I fly my Royal Guard TIE and it feel pretty damn close. Regardless, these ships can be taklen down either way. I was fighting AWings in my Oppressor successfully. My Firespray had quite the nice kill ratio as well. I fly those two way more in PvP than I ever did my Intercepter.
My point is, one on one it's all about skill. 3 on 1.. well you're dead of course.
Not neccessarily, on once occassion I hyped into DS forr a free repair in my battle damaged Xwing and I appeared right in the middle of an attack on freedom station - 60 secs later I hyped to Tatooine leaving 3 dead Oppressors, 1 firespray and 1 krayt at their respective DS entry sectors. Only the Firespray saw it coming and he was flying that big blaster magnet so he didnt have a chance.
My point is the inclusion of the JSF, the grevious and to a lesser extent the starter heavies (cut their mass to 30-35 k at most), and to a even lesser extent the faction rewards (higher mass and better PYR than their counterparts???) makes several massive changes to PvP - especially small scale ie 1 on 1 engagements (which are tha majority).
1. All JTL ships are now obsolete in PvP!
2. Skill when in a non-JSF is now rendered obsolete unless you are flying against a real idiot!
3. Battles can only be one against JSFs if you joust and missile them or their pilots are really stupid.
I really dont like the idea that if I have superior skill to another pilot he wins 90% of the time because he has a quest reward unavailable to me and iI have no countermeasure in my factions armoury. I know a lot of imperialaces feel the same way now. Like the one who said to me last night "Come back mate, im not in a JSF!" (I was going to log anyway lol)! I reckon it wont be long until flyers of JSFs in DS who claim they are "uber" their ships are "balanced" as the Awing is now not "an I WIN button" and that it shouldnt be "nerfed" will be treated with the disdain they are due by the true rebel/imperial/freelancer aces on their respective servers and on the forums!
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 05-20-2005 10:01 AM
I have a favorable kill ratio in my firespray (none with missiles either), "didn't have a chance" when speaking of someone in a firespray is dead wrong as it is when speaking of any ship (before RotW)... well, maybe the noob ships.The only real countermeasure we've been able to come up with against a Jedi Interceptor is the Advanced X-wing, and that only works in larger battles. One-on-one, of course, the Jedi Interceptor will outturn in an X-wing. However, if that Interceptor can be tied up for a bit, an Advanced X-wing loaded to the gills can draw a bead and one-shot the Jedi craft. I know, because one of my squad mates has done it.
I never believed the A-wing was out of balance with the original craft. The TIEs were just as maneuverable and the Advanced could be better-armed, plus the fact that the Imps had the TIE Oppressor for the missile barrages.
On the Alliance side, I always believed the X-wing was a viable PvP craft. It required a little more work and a little better pilot, but it was very possible to use. It has the agility it needs, IMO.
But the Jedi Interceptor has thrown the space PvP out of balance. Hell, it's thrown space out of balance, period. It makes PvE much easier.
Oh, and it's not just the Jedi Interceptor, either...it's all the heavies. The problem with the new ships is that they don't have an apparent weakness. Typically the heavier craft were less maneuverable and had a larger profile, while the lighter craft were more maneuverable and had a smaller profile. But everything's changed.
I personally am a 9 year veteran of WW2 FlightSim MMO's starting with the Airwarrior series 1-3, then most recently Aces High (great game btw). In those games NPC's didn't exist and the pilot community was incredible.
JTL flight is VERY basic in comparison. To compare the twoo is very difficult because you're never going to have to worry about your AWing going into a stall during an inverted Immelman. You're never going to have your character Blackout or Redout from turning to fast or pushing the limits of physical abilities. The realism is of course not there.
Now, this is of course a Space Flightsim in it's easiest of formats. Allegiance is a spacesim that takes it a step further and Freelancer was always fun. Again, the comparisons don't really match up.
I will say this, for some odd reason there isn't an organized dedicated flight community in SWG. Probably because guilds were formed ages before JTL, and besides Starsider there's not that many people up looking for PvP. There's other stuff to do. Mining, farming NPC's for loot, cash, and faction. I wouldn't remove any of that but I find it disturbing that there's not many organized squadrons. Hopefully thats just a "for now" situation.
Something needs to be added to help boost that along. Hence why I'm holding organized events on my server. Trying to get the pilots out of the shadows and into the skies. We need capturable bases, we need reasons to get people overt. You can't say "It's because of these new out of balance ships" because this is how it was before ROTW.
So, thats why I don't want to get too caught up in this NERF this NERF that stuff. I rather be involved in organizing and motivating Pilots to dominate the skies on their own servers. Get more newbies trained, learn how to fly in formations, develop tactics, the list goes on.
I'll let everyone else worry about NERF's. You could completely remove these ships from the game and it wouldn't do a darn thing to get more pilots in the skies and overt. I'm way more concerned with getting people to fly than I am with what they fly.
To loki - the firespray had its back to me and i could hardly miss with 3 adv blasters before he turned lol
To vegitaa and halyn- I dont hate nerf cries per se, i hate people who shout "he wants my new toy nerfed" whenever someone saids something is unbalanced. It is those, unlike you, who were unable to work out that the benefits of certain craft over the Awing who fall into this category in regard to the JSF. And on my server its the guys i regularly see flying, whatever there faction, and especially those who PvP regularly who are annoyed at the gamebreaking unbalance of the new ships! Those who now frequent DS in their shiny JSFs looking for players to kill never seemed to go their before and they are the ones who like the new ship. To put it in CU terms its like when the CU came, all professions where made better but only members of a certain faction could reach CL80 while everbody else could only reach CL60. And good for you on using the interceptor for PvP. It was always a thrill when i say people taking light duty TIEs and interceptors and advanced into DS against me instead of the stock Opp. Now its the stock JSF ffs. I on the other hand have PvP well in Y, B, X and the A wing and have a supremely deadly Awing (not cause of it being an Awing but because of its components) and a moderately deadly Xwing, soon to become a supremely deadly Xwing heavy which i PvP in.
to avelom - Dogfights should be a mixture of tactics not just one, and now the only feasible counter to a JSF is to strap the fastest engine you have in a ship and point it at the JSF, launch missiles, run straight in full boost, slow and turn around, then repeat. My PvP was always fun and full of manouvers, not just turns that the JSF as an opponent makes unviable as they can always outmanouver my "crazy man" tactics.
Vegitaa wrote:
I personally am a 9 year veteran of WW2 FlightSim MMO's starting with the Airwarrior series 1-3, then most recently Aces High (great game btw). In those games NPC's didn't exist and the pilot community was incredible.
JTL flight is VERY basic in comparison. To compare the twoo is very difficult because you're never going to have to worry about your AWing going into a stall during an inverted Immelman. You're never going to have your character Blackout or Redout from turning to fast or pushing the limits of physical abilities. The realism is of course not there.
Now, this is of course a Space Flightsim in it's easiest of formats. Allegiance is a spacesim that takes it a step further and Freelancer was always fun. Again, the comparisons don't really match up.
I will say this, for some odd reason there isn't an organized dedicated flight community in SWG. Probably because guilds were formed ages before JTL, and besides Starsider there's not that many people up looking for PvP. There's other stuff to do. Mining, farming NPC's for loot, cash, and faction. I wouldn't remove any of that but I find it disturbing that there's not many organized squadrons. Hopefully thats just a "for now" situation.
Something needs to be added to help boost that along. Hence why I'm holding organized events on my server. Trying to get the pilots out of the shadows and into the skies. We need capturable bases, we need reasons to get people overt. You can't say "It's because of these new out of balance ships" because this is how it was before ROTW.
So, thats why I don't want to get too caught up in this NERF this NERF that stuff. I rather be involved in organizing and motivating Pilots to dominate the skies on their own servers. Get more newbies trained, learn how to fly in formations, develop tactics, the list goes on.
I'll let everyone else worry about NERF's. You could completely remove these ships from the game and it wouldn't do a darn thing to get more pilots in the skies and overt. I'm way more concerned with getting people to fly than I am with what they fly.
Try Chimaera mate - we now seem to have started up a weekly battle on Sundays in PvP!
Kettemoor has a couple of excellent squadron-guilds too, and the majority of the space regulars (whether they are in one of those guild or not)make upan excellent and respectful crowd. Although, there has been a large increase in the number of pilots I've seen in DS and Kessel recently, hopefully they will fit in with the same attitude.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Vegitaa wrote:
I will say this, for some odd reason there isn't an organized dedicated flight community in SWG. Probably because guilds were formed ages before JTL, and besides Starsider there's not that many people up looking for PvP.
Try Chimaera mate - we now seem to have started up a weekly battle on Sundays in PvP!
Though to be honest most rebels turn up because thats the only way to get into DS now and compete with the 30 JSFs flying around there. Just to point out 3 weeks ago you would be lucky to see 1 or 2 other players in DS at a time - that tells me that the JSF is wildly unbalanced right there!
COULD A DEV PLEASE DO THE FOLLOWING:
1.) LET THE COMMUNITY KNOW THAT THE JSF WILL NOT BE NERFED.
2.) LOCK THIS THREAD.
3.) STICKY THE RESPONSE IN THIS FORUM
This is exactly what ruined the ground game. Every time some noob got killed in PvP they cried NERF. Nobody even launches into space as it is. I just cancelled my second account yesterday for this very reason. I'm sure you've noticed that there are like 10% of us left. Wanna know why? This is why.
I'm trying to get something similair started on Ahazi.
Plan is to set up three "squadrons" and three public chatrooms for this purpose. Have a squad leader in each so that we can organize events, weekly flight nights, etc...
Wouldn't be a guild (want to let people keep what they already have going) more of a centralized way for pilots of the three factions to help each other out, work on flight tactics, etc... so far, interest is good. I should be getting this up and running in about a week.
/salute
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
Kettemoor has a couple of excellent squadron-guilds too, and the majority of the space regulars (whether they are in one of those guild or not)make upan excellent and respectful crowd. Although, there has been a large increase in the number of pilots I've seen in DS and Kessel recently, hopefully they will fit in with the same attitude.
Well last weeks battle (our first) was ruined by the new PvPers on the Imp side loadkilling (they were all in JSFs natch and thinking they are uber), but hopefully itll be better this week with the decent Imps - those regular PvPers who follow the pilots code - explaining what is considered acceptable in DS.
Well well well, this thread was doing well until some fool who because he has a shiny toy that ruins PvP for real aces thinks he can tell us, who enjoy playing a balanced game, what to do!
Ooola wrote:
COULD A DEV PLEASE DO THE FOLLOWING:
1.) LET THE COMMUNITY KNOW THAT THE JSF WILL NOT BE NERFED.
2.) LOCK THIS THREAD.
3.) STICKY THE RESPONSE IN THIS FORUM
This is exactly what ruined the ground game. Every time some noob got killed in PvP they cried NERF. Nobody even launches into space as it is. I just cancelled my second account yesterday for this very reason. I'm sure you've noticed that there are like 10% of us left. Wanna know why? This is why.
cdigby wrote:
Zade has my respect. Not just for his flight skills, but also for his bearing and maturityin tells and on the forums.
Thank you, Khaymen, for those kind words. It's always a pleasure meeting up in space with fellow pilots who realize that we are out there to enjoy the game and to respect our fellows, regardless of what side of the battle we are on. We have a large number of those types of pilots on Kettemoor and for that we are very lucky.
/salute fellow Kettemoorian Rebel, Neutral and Imperial Pilots
