Pilot Archive
Thread: FOTM Jedi Starfighter....
JoKen_Jash
Fri May 20, 2005 8:58 am
#27
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
Jergob wrote:
You're just mad because a guildie of mine just blew you up.
Your A-Wing was the same thing that you're complaining about before RotW came out.
Deal with it, adapt and fly better.
Kehtal has a point. The A-wing is at least balanced to the other ships, the new RotW ships are not. Given its manueverability and profile, the JSF should have less mass then the A-wing, not more.
I've tangled with Kehtal a few times in the last few nights, and I would rate him as a very skilled pilot. In any ship except the RotW ships, I would place money in his favor. The only ship I've seen take out a JSF using blasters (not missiles) was another JSF. The RotW ships need to be balanced, not nerfed though... nerfing leads to them have no use, and I'd like to see them have a little use, but not be the I Win Button they have become.
Kehtal, see if you can squeeze an Image-Rec 2 launcher in your A-wing. As an old Bomber pilot, the IR2s have been standard operating procedure for TIE Bombers / Oppressors for taking out A-wings, and they are going to be the standard for taking out JSF now too. Every ship I have is loaded with them for just that reason, even my JSF.
One problem with that - a good Opp is manouverable and has 3 missile tubes!
The X-wing only has 1 (even though it should have 2) and the A - wing has 1. the other rebel ships are too crap at manouvering to be worth taking up against a JSF!
Arc-170 + Image Rec Mk. II Launcher and missles + Wingman = Havoc against a Jedi Fighter.
Get your friend to go in first and distract the guy, then pull in and whack the lunch out of him with the image rec launcher. I've done it quite effectively.
CuchulainnDarklight
Fri May 20, 2005 9:10 am
#28
Exactly - how does that work in 1 on 1 engagements? It doesnt, there is no effective rebel, imperial or freelancer countermeasure against the JSF except the JSF!
JoKen_Jash wrote:
Arc-170 + Image Rec Mk. II Launcher and missles + Wingman = Havoc against a Jedi Fighter.
Get your friend to go in first and distract the guy, then pull in and whack the lunch out of him with the image rec launcher. I've done it quite effectively.
CuchulainnDarklight
Fri May 20, 2005 9:15 am
#29
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
X-wing only has 1? Ouch, I'd expect 2. Just means you have to reload more often.
X-wings are suppossed to have 2 in star wars but for some reason only have 1 even though their graphics show 2 tubes - underneath and on either side of the cockpit!
Zade_Taerin
Fri May 20, 2005 9:22 am
#30
I managed to take out two JSF's last night on Kettemoor using a Heavy X-wing... and it was simply because the pilots didn't bother to use their ships strengths to an advantage. The firstkill was in Kessel, I was doing some overt faction farming and managed to catch at the last second an Imperial JSF moving in behind me...slammed down the boosters and then started barrel rolling, when he got in close I just hit the brakes, he flew on by, took the shot and splashed him. The second one most have been part of Jergo's group... jump in to DS to see a bunch of Blues floating nearby... lovely... they go red and I start in pursuit of an Oppressor, Opressor down... a JSF lines up and flys in straight... dispatched but my forward shields and armour are out... get in to a circle fight with another JSF... around and around... I think I got a nice glancing shot in on a Krayt or Firespray (?)... looks like 3 other reds about... eventually get taken down.
Kind of convienent for Imperial craft to be starting attacks on the Rebel Outpost from the Rebel jump-in point, isn't it Jergo 
... but in the end, final score for the night is 4 kills to one death, not bad considered I was outnumbered, outgunned andin a craft that could be outmanoeuvered.
Vegitaa
Fri May 20, 2005 9:22 am
#31
Kehtal wrote:
Urgently needs to be nerfed. Why? Because it is insanely unbalanced.
It has more mass than an A-Wing, has a much smaller profile than an A-wing, turns faster than any other ship i know, and also accellerates faster than any other ship i know. Tonight in deep space I came across an enemy pilot in the new FOTM ship, and we went at it. The fight was over relatively quickly, the entire time I was turning as hard as my A-Wing could go, but to no use, he stayed just off of my screen but was able to turn so fast that he could shoot me and continue flying in circles semi-infront of me.
Rinse-Repeat 6 times, same story.
This is rediculous, and needs to be balanced as soon as possible.
This debate has gone on in-debth in the "New Ship Stats" thread. You may want to go take a look over there.
and.. FYI... The JSF/ARC170/Greivous/Reward TIE/XWing/Nuetral as well as all three new "heavy" fighters have identical stats in terms of YPR. Mass is slightly different but if you NERF one, you must NERF them all.
cdigby
Fri May 20, 2005 9:22 am
#32
Ok, here's the thing about this thread: I'm Khaymen one of two jedi starfighter pilots Kehtal went up against in deepspace. I was using a 104spd 64YPR engine. To load this engine, appropriate sheilds and other parts, I have to use two light weapons. That means I don't get one shot kills. And we only killed him twice, not his "wash-rinse-repaet-6 times.Yes, I killed Kehtal twice after the two longest pvp space fights I've had since the CU. He was the second pilot to come up against us while we were on the rebel space station. After the first rebel showed, I was checking for players everytime Iswitched targets, along with my three wingmates. Khetal fails to mention that he did manage to shoot my lady down in her jedi starfighter twice before I could turn his awing to slag. Against a total of 4 imperial aces at once with top of the line equipment, he killed one of these "super" ships twice before being killed. When he started sending me tells, I told him to get a better engine (maybe a 97spd 75ypr engine) and bring friends. You never see real pilots fly without wingmen. Last night was the reason why. We defeated him thru combined fire and vigilance. If I see one player come after my lady, I'm gonna be ready for the next. I have no problem with the jedi starfighter because I used to fly an A-wing on Eclipse. It was very hard for any imperial player to lock me up long enough to burn me. Now, the imps can do the same thing too. People might have a problem with needing to own ROTW to get these fighters freely, but that is a marketing strategy by SOE. Their game means their rules. Find a new way to succeed (as in adapt).
CuchulainnDarklight
Fri May 20, 2005 9:33 am
#33
Note that the above ships in red DO NOT have the same YPR as the others!
Vegitaa wrote:
This debate has gone on in-debth in the "New Ship Stats" thread. You may want to go take a look over there.
and.. FYI... The JSF/ARC170/Greivous/Reward TIE/XWing/Nuetral as well as all three new "heavy" fighters have identical stats in terms of YPR. Mass is slightly different but if you NERF one, you must NERF them all.
CuchulainnDarklight
Fri May 20, 2005 9:36 am
#34
cdigby wrote:
Ok, here's the thing about this thread: I'm Khaymen one of two jedi starfighter pilots Kehtal went up against in deepspace. I was using a 104spd 64YPR engine. To load this engine, appropriate sheilds and other parts, I have to use two light weapons. That means I don't get one shot kills. And we only killed him twice, not his "wash-rinse-repaet-6 times.Yes, I killed Kehtal twice after the two longest pvp space fights I've had since the CU. He was the second pilot to come up against us while we were on the rebel space station. After the first rebel showed, I was checking for players everytime Iswitched targets, along with my three wingmates. Khetal fails to mention that he did manage to shoot my lady down in her jedi starfighter twice before I could turn his awing to slag. Against a total of 4 imperial aces at once with top of the line equipment, he killed one of these "super" ships twice before being killed. When he started sending me tells, I told him to get a better engine (maybe a 97spd 75ypr engine) and bring friends. You never see real pilots fly without wingmen. Last night was the reason why. We defeated him thru combined fire and vigilance. If I see one player come after my lady, I'm gonna be ready for the next. I have no problem with the jedi starfighter because I used to fly an A-wing on Eclipse. It was very hard for any imperial player to lock me up long enough to burn me. Now, the imps can do the same thing too. People might have a problem with needing to own ROTW to get these fighters freely, but that is a marketing strategy by SOE. Their game means their rules. Find a new way to succeed (as in adapt).
Whilst Imperials have 3 ships which are EXCELLENT A-wing killers the Rebels and freelancers have NO ships which can compete with the JSF therefore it is unbalanced. Therefore the game is unbalanced. Therefore the game is broken. Therefore fix it!
Vegitaa
Fri May 20, 2005 9:37 am
#35
I fly my JSF rarely (mainly for pve) I fly my Royal Guard Intercepter often for PvP.
Point is, these ships aren't invincible. There really is no need to NERF anything. Keep in mind missles could care less what your YPR is.
It was a three on one fight. Even if they were all flying POS TIE's this guy would have lost. Thats just the way it is. In response to the.. "He was in the left hand corner of my view and was still hitting me.." I used to do the exact same thing in my standard TIE Intercepter. That just means he had a far superior engine with much better YPR.
You got shot down. Take it like a man and quit your whining. NERF the JSF all you want, a standard TIE intercepter would still be able to do the same exact thing and anyone who knows anything realizes that all TIE's have a disadvantage in terms of mass and an advantage in terms of YPR.
Facts are facts, you were outnumbered and out manuevored. Don't like it? Go get yourself a Heavy Z95 and a couple of friends then go up and do the samething to them.
CuchulainnDarklight
Fri May 20, 2005 9:42 am
#36
Once again i should point out that the TIE advanced has more YPR and the same mass as an Awing therefore it does not have a disadvantage except its larger size which is counteracted by its extra gun (crowbaring required)!
Vegitaa wrote:
I fly my JSF rarely (mainly for pve) I fly my Royal Guard Intercepter often for PvP.
Point is, these ships aren't invincible. There really is no need to NERF anything. Keep in mind missles could care less what your YPR is.
It was a three on one fight. Even if they were all flying POS TIE's this guy would have lost. Thats just the way it is. In response to the.. "He was in the left hand corner of my view and was still hitting me.." I used to do the exact same thing in my standard TIE Intercepter. That just means he had a far superior engine with much better YPR.
You got shot down. Take it like a man and quit your whining. NERF the JSF all you want, a standard TIE intercepter would still be able to do the same exact thing and anyone who knows anything realizes that all TIE's have a disadvantage in terms of mass and an advantage in terms of YPR.
Facts are facts, you were outnumbered and out manuevored. Don't like it? Go get yourself a Heavy Z95 and a couple of friends then go up and do the samething to them.
Vegitaa
Fri May 20, 2005 9:45 am
#37
Heavy Scyk: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Heavy TIE/Ln: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Heavy Z-95: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
ARC-170: 125K mass, 1 SP weapon 2 MP, 1 ordnance, .97(?) speed, 400/400/200 P/Y/R
Grievous Fighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Jedi Starfighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Heavy TIE/Ln: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Heavy Z-95: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
ARC-170: 125K mass, 1 SP weapon 2 MP, 1 ordnance, .97(?) speed, 400/400/200 P/Y/R
Grievous Fighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Jedi Starfighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R
Heavy X-Wing: 180K mass, 3 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95/.90 speed foils open/closed(?), 300/200/150 P/Y/R
Imperial Guard Interceptor: 80K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, 1.0 speed, 400/400/200 P/Y/R
Vaksai: 150K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, 1.0 speed, 300/300/150 P/Y/R
Imperial Guard Interceptor: 80K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, 1.0 speed, 400/400/200 P/Y/R
Vaksai: 150K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, 1.0 speed, 300/300/150 P/Y/R
Double-checked. You're right.
The three new "heavy's, the JSF, Grievous have identical YPR's.
But I must say, I fly my Royal Guard TIE and it feel pretty damn close. Regardless, these ships can be taklen down either way. I was fighting AWings in my Oppressor successfully. My Firespray had quite the nice kill ratio as well. I fly those two way more in PvP than I ever did my Intercepter.
My point is, one on one it's all about skill. 3 on 1.. well you're dead of course.
Zade_Taerin
Fri May 20, 2005 9:47 am
#38
Looking at the numbers on the Heavy Z-95, they are impressive. I've got a guild SW cooking one up for me right now. It matches the JSF for YPR and speed but has a larger profile. It has more mass but only mounts one gun. One gun that could do 3.6k-4.2k damage, combine itwith Weapon Overload 3 and it should be more then enough to disable if not destory a JSF in one pass. Missiles are not looked upon as sporting but if you outmanned and you have to use them then use them. The 95k of the Heavy Z-95 will allow for a good shield, good engine, good armour and a half-way decent droid interface. I'm looking forward to outfitting mine. I wished that they had heavied the A-wing to match the same specs because it's more stylish and in line with the timeline (the Z-95 is over 20 years old)... but you have to take what you can get... and I'm not eager to be dropping Rebel Colonel and regrinding pilot all over again to get the JSF.
CuchulainnDarklight
Fri May 20, 2005 9:59 am
#39
Vegitaa wrote:
Double-checked. You're right.
The three new "heavy's, the JSF, Grievous have identical YPR's.
But I must say, I fly my Royal Guard TIE and it feel pretty damn close. Regardless, these ships can be taklen down either way. I was fighting AWings in my Oppressor successfully. My Firespray had quite the nice kill ratio as well. I fly those two way more in PvP than I ever did my Intercepter.
My point is, one on one it's all about skill. 3 on 1.. well you're dead of course.
Not neccessarily, on once occassion I hyped into DS forr a free repair in my battle damaged Xwing and I appeared right in the middle of an attack on freedom station - 60 secs later I hyped to Tatooine leaving 3 dead Oppressors, 1 firespray and 1 krayt at their respective DS entry sectors. Only the Firespray saw it coming and he was flying that big blaster magnet so he didnt have a chance.
My point is the inclusion of the JSF, the grevious and to a lesser extent the starter heavies (cut their mass to 30-35 k at most), and to a even lesser extent the faction rewards (higher mass and better PYR than their counterparts???) makes several massive changes to PvP - especially small scale ie 1 on 1 engagements (which are tha majority).
1. All JTL ships are now obsolete in PvP!
2. Skill when in a non-JSF is now rendered obsolete unless you are flying against a real idiot!
3. Battles can only be one against JSFs if you joust and missile them or their pilots are really stupid.
I really dont like the idea that if I have superior skill to another pilot he wins 90% of the time because he has a quest reward unavailable to me and iI have no countermeasure in my factions armoury. I know a lot of imperialaces feel the same way now. Like the one who said to me last night "Come back mate, im not in a JSF!" (I was going to log anyway lol)! I reckon it wont be long until flyers of JSFs in DS who claim they are "uber" their ships are "balanced" as the Awing is now not "an I WIN button" and that it shouldnt be "nerfed" will be treated with the disdain they are due by the true rebel/imperial/freelancer aces on their respective servers and on the forums!
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 05-20-2005 10:01 AM