Pilot Archive

Thread: Alternative nerfs for the ETA Actis 2

CuchulainnDarklight
Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:36 pm
#40






Yoda-5499 wrote:





CuchulainnDarklight wrote:





Raptor2k1 wrote:






PaceNebulon wrote:



the devs have already said that they would rather adjust the old ships rather than nerf the new ones.







When have they ever said that? I'd like a link, or I'm gonna call BS on that one.







They have NEVER said that, what they said was they would PREFER to make the older ships better to compete!



However this is of course the Idiots Array hand from Sabbac.


Why, well we have all seen that the servers can barely (sometimes not at all) cope with the load introduced into space with ROTW, so Firstly we have to upgrade the servers. Once thats doen we have to take over THIRTY ships and rebalance them with EIGHT ships that havent even been balanced with EACH OTHER. Once this is done we then have to REBALANCE EVERY single ship component ingame as they are all balanced for JLT (preROTW) ships mass and manouverability ranges.


OR


You could just balance the EIGHT new ROTW ships in with the EXISTING working balance system.


HMM, 1-2 weeks of work compared to 6 months to a year of work. Yeah you JSF lovers are right lets take the longer route to fixing it. And the longer way your ships will STILL end up balanced with everyone elses, so you dont gain that much of an advantage.







I'd like to direct your attention to my post a a few scrolls up clearing quoting a Dev and giving a link about the changing of some ships. Not to be rude it is staring you in the face.




Thank you very much to pointing me towards your post a few up quoting a Dev. Not to be rude to you but it is staring you in the face that as I mentioned earlier they said that



They have NEVER said that they WOULDNT NERF the new ships, what they said was they would PREFER to make the older ships better to compete!






Brekkee - *Imaridirl* Many players feel that the most of the new player starships introduced in ROTW are significantly overpowered compared to all the JTL fighters. Are there any plans to adjust any of the stats on the new ROTW ships to bring them more inline with all the other ships?

Darth_Platypus - I'm constantly looking at the balance of ship stats, so I can take a close look at the new fighters and see if they need adjusting. They're pretty powerful...and zippy...but that also makes them a lot of fun to fly.

and

Brekkee - *yivvits* DP says the new ships are zippy and fun to fly, and man are they ever! But that is the problem. They outfly all the other ships that us shipwrights make. Is there any possibility that the existing ships could be modified to compete with these?

Darth_Platypus - Well, I would always rather buff things up than nerf them...
Darth_Platypus - Ship balance is a tough call to make, but I will look at the existing ship balance scheme very carefully and see if the new ships need to be brought in line, or if the old ships need a facelift...





As you can see from the yellow and red bits above I was, not being rude about it, correct, they have never, as some people have errouneously stated, said that they would never nerf the ROTW ships but increase the stats of the older ships.


Once again my original argument coupled with the laxadaisical work ethic of the SOE staff, would lead an intelligent person to presume that rather than balancing the9 ROTW ships, the 30+ JTL ships, every crafted ship component, every looted ship component, every NPC ship, and, upgrading the servers to compete with the JSF/BSF the SOE staff would prefer to just balance the ROTW ships inline with the existing, working, tested JTL balance system as it is considerably less work with less financial cost with the same final outcome in a shorter timespan.




...has mastered the Pilot profession
The above post does not represent the views or beliefs of the poster, his countrymen or government, or anyone he remotely knows or has heard of, though in a perfect world he would be the government and his word law. The above post is also wholly fictitious, and any resemblance to any persons or entities living or dead is purely coincidental. Unless, it sounds really cool, in which case its all true, really.
Use the test centre avatar if you have any issues with the NGE or SOE, like me!
RedOnedi
Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:44 pm
#41

Ahh, a good point, Master Yoda


But I pose a counterpoint:


During that time, there were a *lot* of Jedi


The Jedi were very much a part of the war


The name of the ship itself, for crying out loud


The headpiece the pilot wears...no microphone, so it's probably not a communications device. It's obviously not a helmet. If you notice, it was worn in both the Delta, and the Actis...so, what might it be then? Hrmmm...


I also pose a question: Exactly how do these ships negatively affect your own personal gaming experience? Since you have the choice to not fly them, hence possibly making PvE trivial for you (I make no presumptions either way of your piloting skills, which is why I said possibly...no insult intended). So, by deductive logic, that leaves us with only one possible answer as to how these ships could possibly affect your gaming experience in a negative fashion...


Make no mistake, my Actis makes anything I do easier by a very noticeable degree...even if it still had a crappy setup. This is the reason I choose not to fly it most of the time. I have PvP'd against several different types of ships, and once you figure out how to beat the small, zippy fighters (all of them, including pre ROTW), I think you will find that these ships are not as horribly out of whack as it seems. Now in the hands of a true Ace, they are deadly machines, but said Ace has the choice to fly them or not, and so does everyone else.


I mean no disrespect Yoda, or to anyone else for that matter, but the horribly disrespectfulway that some choose to discuss this matter really needs to stop (not saying you, Yoda...but others).


Fly them or don't


Join them, or beat them...and I think Janu has the right way of going about it. When I end up Rebel (and I will), chances are really high that I will follow the same path.


Domingo


CommTampers
Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:51 pm
#42

Obviously, most of you have missed the point, by turning this into a flaming thread. My original proposal was to add a hyperspace ring as new content and hopefully encourage a few pilots, however few that would be, into returning to the Tie Advanced.




Bon ~Co-Commander of Verctor Squadron~ Field Doctor
a.k.a. Hatzo (Eclipse) ~ Irebo Motely ~ Starsider Remastery Alt
...has mastered the Pilot profession.
>: 4 8 15 16 23 42g
Yoda-5499
Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:51 pm
#43



RedOnedi wrote:

Ahh, a good point, Master Yoda

But I pose a counterpoint:

During that time, there were a *lot* of Jedi

The Jedi were very much a part of the war

The name of the ship itself, for crying out loud

The headpiece the pilot wears...no microphone, so it's probably not a communications device. It's obviously not a helmet. If you notice, it was worn in both the Delta, and the Actis...so, what might it be then? Hrmmm...

I also pose a question: Exactly how do these ships negatively affect your own personal gaming experience? Since you have the choice to not fly them, hence possibly making PvE trivial for you (I make no presumptions either way of your piloting skills, which is why I said possibly...no insult intended). So, by deductive logic, that leaves us with only one possible answer as to how these ships could possibly affect your gaming experience in a negative fashion...

Make no mistake, my Actis makes anything I do easier by a very noticeable degree...even if it still had a crappy setup. This is the reason I choose not to fly it most of the time. I have PvP'd against several different types of ships, and once you figure out how to beat the small, zippy fighters (all of them, including pre ROTW), I think you will find that these ships are not as horribly out of whack as it seems. Now in the hands of a true Ace, they are deadly machines, but said Ace has the choice to fly them or not, and so does everyone else.

I mean no disrespect Yoda, or to anyone else for that matter, but the horribly disrespectful way that some choose to discuss this matter really needs to stop (not saying you, Yoda...but others).

Fly them or don't

Join them, or beat them...and I think Janu has the right way of going about it. When I end up Rebel (and I will), chances are really high that I will follow the same path.

Domingo




Alright, this will be the last post and then this thread can die.

The only negative impact that affects my gameplay from the JSF is that the people who pilot them (no offence to those who fly the JSF and don't do this) in most cases believe they have the superior ship, hence they should challenege me or make fun of me because I don't have that ship. That's the only thing I have against it right now. That is, of course, without my applying how it is against canon. Sure, I could /ignore them but I'd really hate to go there.

But I'd like to counter your thoughts on Jedi in the Clone Wars. It was about a one to two Jedi on a planet. Yoda was on Kashyyk, Ki-Adi-Mundi was on Mygeeto, Aayla Secura was on Felucia, and so on. They were generals in the wars, commanding troops and they were very spread out. 192 Jedi on a Star Destroyer seems very unlikely, even there they might have been well over 192 Jedi around. If there were indeed 192 Jedi per ship already in the Battle of Coruscant, I don't think they would have to have called Anakin and Obi-win all the way from the Outer-Rim seiges. And they really needed to, why didn't they send in some back-up Jedi with them?

That is all I have to say. Oh, and CuchulainnDarklight, I had thought you meant there was no place stating that nothing was to be done about anything realting to the RotW ships. Sorry if I offended you, or anyone as a matter of fact.



***My Signature***

Adnil Nedlog
Master Droid Engineer/Master Artisan/Master Merchant
Master Pilot/Freelance Pilot Ace/Novice Marksman

Read my posts as if I talked just like C-3PO:

"Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1!"
RedOnedi
Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:59 pm
#44

Ahh, a good debate, Master Yoda...and I agree, let's just leave it where it is.


I appreciate you calmly illustrating your points, and doing it quite well, though I think perhaps we both might be right and wrong, heh.


I just want to say this also:


Regardless of what I have said in this post, and any other post that remotely touched on the topic of ROTW ships...I really wish I could have been in DS when it was Return of the Jedi era (plus some freelance ships) only. That is something I really wish I could have seen, and quite frankly...would like to see again. I would not be terribly affected if SOE took away all of the ROTW ships, but it would cause me to grind Imperial, and at some point end up as a Rebel because the X-wing is the ship that is the most *me*. Call me what you want, but I went freelance for the Falcon...and only the Falcon.


Thanks again for your candor, Yoda


Domingo


Washell
Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:22 pm
#45






RedOnedi wrote:

The name of the ship itself, for crying out loud








Which plane did the Red Baron fly?


Whichship did Anakin fly? Hey, Jedi war hero flies an ETA-2, guess a nickname like Jedi Starfighter is easily earned.


It only takes a single person to give something a nickname.

noggs
Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:32 pm
#46


Dragon942 wrote:

Ok, obviously some poeple are missing the point. Of course you can kill a JSF if you are a better pilot. Janu does it in an A-Wing, I do it all the time in a TIE Heavy that is not even equipped with JSF hunting in mind.

The point is:

ANYTHING YOU CAN DO IN ANY SHIP, YOU CAN DO BETTER IN A JSF.

Do you understand now?

Anything. PvP. PvE. Taking out cap ships. Everything in all of JTL. From a completely technical point of view, there really isn't a good reason not use it. And how fun would space be if everyone used the same ship?
JSF Koosh ball FTL.




All I hear from everyone is WAH WAH WAH! YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING BETTER IN A JSF! WAH WAH WAH!

GET OVER IT! Its unbalanced great, deal with it!

Wow, you can do everything better in it, great for you, again, deal with it!

And, all you ppl saying it shouldn't be in the game, because of timeline issues. If you haven't noticed yet SOE disregards all sticking to the timeline crap, they do not care, they only care about keeping that account of yours alive so they come out with offtime stuff to add candy/content so you keep paying that $15 a month.

Message Edited by noggs on 08-01-2005 09:33 PM



WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Flander Comack - Elite Carbineer
Merick Craven - Cloak And Run Jedi
Youngun of FTW


<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3






Yoda-5499
Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:38 pm
#47



noggs wrote:

Dragon942 wrote:

Ok, obviously some poeple are missing the point. Of course you can kill a JSF if you are a better pilot. Janu does it in an A-Wing, I do it all the time in a TIE Heavy that is not even equipped with JSF hunting in mind.

The point is:

ANYTHING YOU CAN DO IN ANY SHIP, YOU CAN DO BETTER IN A JSF.

Do you understand now?

Anything. PvP. PvE. Taking out cap ships. Everything in all of JTL. From a completely technical point of view, there really isn't a good reason not use it. And how fun would space be if everyone used the same ship?
JSF Koosh ball FTL.




All I hear from everyone is WAH WAH WAH! YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING BETTER IN A JSF! WAH WAH WAH!

GET OVER IT! Its unbalanced great, deal with it!

Wow, you can do everything better in it, great for you, again, deal with it!

And, all you ppl saying it shouldn't be in the game, because of timeline issues. If you haven't noticed yet SOE disregards all sticking to the timeline crap, they do not care, they only care about keeping that account of yours alive so they come out with offtime stuff to add candy/content so you keep paying that $15 a month.

Message Edited by noggs on 08-01-2005 09:33 PM



The thread is over.



***My Signature***

Adnil Nedlog
Master Droid Engineer/Master Artisan/Master Merchant
Master Pilot/Freelance Pilot Ace/Novice Marksman

Read my posts as if I talked just like C-3PO:

"Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1!"
CommTampers
Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:45 pm
#48






Yoda-5499 wrote:

The thread is over.




It ain't over untill:

1- the fat lady sings

2- dessert is served

3- someone gets banned

4- the thread gets locked

5- the problem is solved

6- boredom

7- The author says so!!!




Bon ~Co-Commander of Verctor Squadron~ Field Doctor
a.k.a. Hatzo (Eclipse) ~ Irebo Motely ~ Starsider Remastery Alt
...has mastered the Pilot profession.
>: 4 8 15 16 23 42g
JanuHull
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:24 am
#49






DanteTheMagnificent wrote:






Dragon942 wrote:





Lipe wrote:
just go get a jsf for ur self and call it even





The JSF does not fit in the timeline at all and in terms of gameplay makes the ENTIRE REST OF JTL USELESS in comparison (much like the old composite armor one might say). Again, not an idea I am willing to accept.





Q (to the) F (to the) E






I disagree that it makes all other ships in JTL useless, but its definitely a more painful than it should be challenge tweaking them up that far.


At the same time, when you start racking up kills against fools like Lipe who think his little poonfighter makes him mommy's special boy, its a real sense of accomplishment to school them in the oldest rule of flying: A superior plane cannot outfly a superior pilot.


I admit, I was among those who's first introduction to the JSF in PvP was painfully inglorious, and I was also one who believed them invincible, until I got off my ass and convinced myself that they could be beaten without sinking to their level and getting one of my own.


I've heard people tell me an A-Wing can't cut it against the JSF. I've been told a Level 6 reward engine is no longer competitive. I've been told crafted parts are useless and inferior. Horsefeathers,these people havegot it wrong, you're not fighting another plane, you're fighting the other pilot. All the uberlooted components can't keep a pilot from frustration at having missed me again. There's no mechanic that covers those situations when a pilot just up and makes the wrong move and then its game over.


The pilot is the weakest link in any spacecraft, and many people who fly the JSF fail to realize this, thinking a capshunt and shield on a ship with unbalanced maneuverability make them teh ultimate fighting machine. They never stop to think that regardless of how well the ship turns, it can always turn the wrong way when you screw up.


Screw'em all, I've proved them wrong and loved every goddamned minute of it. My issue with the JSF, the IG TIE Inteceptor and the Bel-22 aren't a matter of personal envy, its a matter of delusion. People get these ships thinking they've suddenly become king sh*t and should pwn the skies because they've got the ub3r-lewt ship.


Its a false economy that's convincing pilots who are more than above these easy mode ships that its the only way to compete, and its dragging us steadily towards the boring clone mire of the pre-CU Composite Wars on the ground.



Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA

"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

Blue_Slushy
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:29 am
#50

I don't understand why all you whiners just can't accept the fact that the JSF is a superior ship to any other. Is it that hard? I mean come, they are not invincible like Jana said, she takes them out in her A-Wing

Adaptation to the JSF is your friend. You might as well get use to it. Because the Devs aren't changing it.




WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Pinnhead/Craven - Elite Carbineers
Merick Craven - Cloak and Run Jedi
Youngun of FTW



Yoda-5499
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:42 am
#51



Blue_Slushy wrote:
I don't understand why all you whiners just can't accept the fact that the JSF is a superior ship to any other. Is it that hard? I mean come, they are not invincible like Jana said, she takes them out in her A-Wing

Adaptation to the JSF is your friend. You might as well get use to it. Because the Devs aren't changing it.


The problem is that it shouldn't be a superior ship. It was the first building block to the TIE Fighter. And we all no the TIE Fighter isn't a superior ship itself. So, care to explain how it is to be superior now? It has no shields and no hyperdrive. About the only thing that makes it better than the TIE is the fact that it could have an astromech.



***My Signature***

Adnil Nedlog
Master Droid Engineer/Master Artisan/Master Merchant
Master Pilot/Freelance Pilot Ace/Novice Marksman

Read my posts as if I talked just like C-3PO:

"Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1!"
Blue_Slushy
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:47 am
#52



Yoda-5499 wrote:


Blue_Slushy wrote:
I don't understand why all you whiners just can't accept the fact that the JSF is a superior ship to any other. Is it that hard? I mean come, they are not invincible like Jana said, she takes them out in her A-Wing

Adaptation to the JSF is your friend. You might as well get use to it. Because the Devs aren't changing it.


The problem is that it shouldn't be a superior ship. It was the first building block to the TIE Fighter. And we all no the TIE Fighter isn't a superior ship itself. So, care to explain how it is to be superior now? It has no shields and no hyperdrive. About the only thing that makes it better than the TIE is the fact that it could have an astromech.



Just because it doesn't have shields/hyperdrive in the movies doesn't mean it can't have them ever, ever heard of modification? In the movies, its super small. In SWG its small and Small Hitboxes help you out in Space PvP tremendously.




WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Pinnhead/Craven - Elite Carbineers
Merick Craven - Cloak and Run Jedi
Youngun of FTW



Page 4 of 5