Pilot Archive
Thread: Alternative nerfs for the ETA Actis 2
DanteTheMagnificent wrote:
JanuHull wrote:
Blue_Slushy wrote:
I don't understand why all you whiners just can't accept the fact that the JSF is a superior ship to any other. Is it that hard? I mean come, they are not invincible like Jana said, she takes them out in her A-Wing
Adaptation to the JSF is your friend. You might as well get use to it. Because the Devs aren't changing it.
*kick B_S in the nuts* That's Janu, and he's a dude.
Yeah! Janu's only a girl on Thursday nights down at that rough leather bar in the East Village.
The things that guy'll do for free drinks...
*flip da bird* Hey, if I were a girlie man, I'd fly an Actis.
Exactly. Ionly ever died to a missile when I flew the JSF as far as I remember. I die more in the TIE, but I also have more fun and get a lot more respect.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
A realistic comparison would be ME flying an Xwing, facing ME in a JSF! The ME in a JSF would beat ME in a Xwing EVERY time. In factif I was piloting a JSF I could kill myself in ANY pre ROTW without much effort.That is a more effective comparison and shows that the JSF is an unbalanced ship as it makes me nearly invulnerable.
I havent died in PvP in my JSF in MONTHS! Thats boring and isnt fun.
PaceNebulon wrote:
the devs have already said that they would rather adjust the old ships rather than nerf the new ones.
When have they ever said that? I'd like a link, or I'm gonna call BS on that one.
Raptor2k1 wrote:
PaceNebulon wrote:
the devs have already said that they would rather adjust the old ships rather than nerf the new ones.
When have they ever said that? I'd like a link, or I'm gonna call BS on that one.
Call BS all you want... I am not going to hunt through the billions of posts on this subject.
Raptor2k1 wrote:
PaceNebulon wrote:
the devs have already said that they would rather adjust the old ships rather than nerf the new ones.
When have they ever said that? I'd like a link, or I'm gonna call BS on that one.
One of the Statics chats. First one after RotW's release, I believe.
Raptor2k1 wrote:
PaceNebulon wrote:
the devs have already said that they would rather adjust the old ships rather than nerf the new ones.
When have they ever said that? I'd like a link, or I'm gonna call BS on that one.
HA! I found it! I'll just quote key points:
Brekkee - *Imaridirl* Many players feel that the most of the new player starships introduced in ROTW are significantly overpowered compared to all the JTL fighters. Are there any plans to adjust any of the stats on the new ROTW ships to bring them more inline with all the other ships?
Darth_Platypus - I'm constantly looking at the balance of ship stats, so I can take a close look at the new fighters and see if they need adjusting. They're pretty powerful...and zippy...but that also makes them a lot of fun to fly.
and
Brekkee - *yivvits* DP says the new ships are zippy and fun to fly, and man are they ever! But that is the problem. They outfly all the other ships that us shipwrights make. Is there any possibility that the existing ships could be modified to compete with these?
Darth_Platypus - Well, I would always rather buff things up than nerf them...
Darth_Platypus - Ship balance is a tough call to make, but I will look at the existing ship balance scheme very carefully and see if the new ships need to be brought in line, or if the old ships need a facelift...
Here's the location if you think I'm making this up.
/sigh
First of all folks, when it comes to canon, it seems like everyone is wrong and right at the same time...but here is the reality:
Star Wars Galaxies is not the prequels
Star Wars Galaxies is not the originals
Star Wars Galaxies is not the expanded universe
Star Wars Galaxies is not the Star Wars complete manual (or whatever these books are called that people are linking to)
Star Wars Galaxies is an alternate Star Wars reality, with an attempt at fun, and being part of a Star Wars universe. Notice I did not say *the*, I said *a*, and this is an important distinction that has been made by SOE in the past. As long as SOE continues to make this game profitable, and as long as they do not *defame* George Lucas, or his creation, they will stay at the helm. SOE has made an amalgamation of all of these eras in the Star Wars universe, and added their own flair, to give us a (notice I again said a) Star Wars universe in which we can participate, with the ultimate goal being fun. It is far from perfect, but all things considered, it is really well done. Honestly, these canon arguments really need to stop, because they only apply in the barest of backdrop scenery ways.
Secondly, this JSF thing:
I don't know why no one has said this yet but...there is a really good reason it's nicknamed the Jedi Star Fighter...both the Eta 2, and its predecessor (Obi Wan's from EP 2, don't know the name), are starfighters that are so tricked out, only a Jedi can fly them. I have no idea if they have/had shields/hyperdrives, but it really does not matter since all player-pilotable ships *must* have the option to load them (or not, in the case of Rapax's Suicidal Maniac :cool
. Think of the JSF's in terms of something we have today...the F-16 Falcon. The aircraft's frame is so inherenty unstable (which gives it its uber maneuverability), that it *must* be fly-by-wire...just a pilot could not fly this aircraft, and the same applied for both versions of the JSF. Fortunately, SOE was nice enough to remove this restriction, so that anyone who completes the quest can fly one, if they CHOOSE. Which leads me to my final point.
The JSF (in fact all of the ROTW ships):
Choose to fly it
Choose not to fly it
The reason(s) for either are your own, and are completely valid, as it is your play experience that matters, not anyone else's opinion on it...but don't be an ass and begrudge someone their choice (to fly, or not to fly, that is the question), just because you are on one side of the fence or the other.
In case anyone wonders:
If I need to get something done, or just want to have a lot of fun, chances are I will pull either my Actis, or my Vaksai out of the barn. I could use a Dunelizard, but I am out of spots for ships atm, and I use my lizard for mining.
If I want to really work on making myself a better pilot, I pull out my Krayt, since I cannot fly against tier 5 capital ships worth a damn in that thing, but I use it to make myself better.
If I were an Imperial pilot - I would fly the Tie Advanced, or the Oppressor, both almost exclusively...I would fly my JSF when I wanted to have some fun, and that's about it.
If I were a Rebel pilot - X-wing, A-wing, maybe B-wing, exclusively...same applies for JSF in above example.
Just fly in space however it brings you the most fun/success/loot/whatever, and don't scorn anyone else's choice in doing the same.
Both the canon, and ROTW ship arguments really just need to go away, but I don't think they ever will 
Domingo
Message Edited by RedOnedi on 08-01-2005 02:49 PM
PaceNebulon wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Unfortunately, before you start to make comparisons, its always good tochoose ones that dont end up proving an opposing viewpoint to yours!
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 08-01-2005 01:49 PM
What I wrote wasn't an opposing viewpoint. What meant to get across was that these arguments are supid and a waste of time. the devs have already said that they would rather adjust the old ships rather than nerf the new ones. Therefore, asking for a nerf then having the rest of the community argue about it is not only a waste of forum server space but one that has been been done numerous times already.
BTW a comparison between "equal skilled pilots" is irrelevent because there is no such thing. Even if it is a minute detail one will always be better.
Okay, you say what you wrote wasnt an opposing viewpoint. YES it was. It was opposing because it was a viewpoint and someone else is bound to oppose you therefore you oppose them. Unless you are arrogant enough to presume that 4 or 5 lines of badly thought out rambling masquerading as logical arguments means everyone will bow to your superiour knowledge of course.
How exactly are you suppossed to get accross that argueing about these things are stupid and a waste oF time by actually arguing about these things yourself? More flawed logic or arrogance.
The devs say many things - do you always believe them. Here is an example, "Smuggler will get a revamp!", "Ranger will get a revamp!". Hmm, please go to the smuggler and ranger boards and inform them that SOE ALWAYS does what they say, I think you may be unpleasantly surprised.
Here we also see the NERF word. ALWAYS used by proponents of the JSF (who dont care about the other ROTW ships as they only fly the JSF). What does this word NERF tell us about PaceNebulon. Well firstly, the use of may suggest a lack of understanding of simple english language and comprehension though as the OP already used it we will let this go, for now. Secondly, it tells us that this is a JSF flyer, why? because a non-JSF flyer will say the word balance (a postive act making the game more fun) whilst a JSF player will say NERF to make it sound like a BAD THING! that his overpowered toy goes away. Finaly we have the use of the personal insult, you cant outfly JSFs thereofore your crap! in this earlier post. I beg to differ, I outly JSFs therefore I am NOT crap using your reasoning and have the knowledge to then say YOU fly a JSF therefore YOU are CRAP! However, I would not stoop so low as to use personal insults, yet!
You also say this has been gone over numerous times. You know why that is dont you? Its not cause the JSF is a finely balanced piece of gamery thats for sure!
Please forgive me if english is not your first language, however i think i made it very clear in my rebuttal of your ideas (see earlier posts) that I was not comparing TWO pilots of SIMILAR skill, but TWO versions of ME (clones if you will).Your arguement was, in summary, that because some exceptional pilots (such as myself) can vape JSF after JSF after JSF flown by pilots of similar or lesser skills it somehow makes the ships balanced. This is blatantly untrue and extremely foolish. You dont have to be a research scientist to see the flaws in your logic or experimental ideas here.
You said , and i quote "The only thing the JSF does is give bad pilots a bit of a boost in PvE. In PvP it doesn't really matter (reference all the people talking about killing JSF in thier a-wings or even Novas.) If you do think it makes a big difference in PvP... then learn to fight and whinning or go back to grinding j33d3y3."
I intelligently and effectively pointied out the flaws in your reasoning (twice now) on this point and you seem unable to formulate a rebuttal that doesnt include a direct lie when taken against your former post. EVERYONE who has PvPed in a JTL ship and a JSF knows that the JSF is a superior ship in every way in a PvP engagement. The fact that you are flying against some 10yr old who cant see over the control console and has the reaction speed of a glacier MAY mitigate the performance boost theROTW chassis gives them but it DOES NOT mean that another pilot who is extremely well skilled in starfighter combat and with the reflexes of a cobra, the REed parts of a mad scientist who tinkers like some crazy abomination of a mix of Han Solo and Chewbacca DNA, will not get a boost in combat when progressing ffrom their ship of choice in JTL to the JSF. After all the JSF will match their previous PvP ship in 40% of its capabilites and be superior to it in 59% of its capabilites.
BTW, I never madea comparison between "equal skilled pilots", go back and actually READ what i posted instead of just the last line this time.
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 08-01-2005 02:50 PM
Raptor2k1 wrote:
PaceNebulon wrote:
the devs have already said that they would rather adjust the old ships rather than nerf the new ones.
When have they ever said that? I'd like a link, or I'm gonna call BS on that one.
They have NEVER said that, what they said was they would PREFER to make the older ships better to compete!
However this is of course the Idiots Array hand from Sabbac.
Why, well we have all seen that the servers can barely (sometimes not at all) cope with the load introduced into space with ROTW, so Firstly we have to upgrade the servers. Once thats doen we have to take over THIRTY ships and rebalance them with EIGHT ships that havent even been balanced with EACH OTHER. Once this is done we then have to REBALANCE EVERY single ship component ingame as they are all balanced for JLT (preROTW) ships mass and manouverability ranges.
OR
You could just balance the EIGHT new ROTW ships in with the EXISTING working balance system.
HMM, 1-2 weeks of work compared to 6 months to a year of work. Yeah you JSF lovers are right lets take the longer route to fixing it. And the longer way your ships will STILL end up balanced with everyone elses, so you dont gain that much of an advantage.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Raptor2k1 wrote:
PaceNebulon wrote:
the devs have already said that they would rather adjust the old ships rather than nerf the new ones.
When have they ever said that? I'd like a link, or I'm gonna call BS on that one.
They have NEVER said that, what they said was they would PREFER to make the older ships better to compete!
However this is of course the Idiots Array hand from Sabbac.
Why, well we have all seen that the servers can barely (sometimes not at all) cope with the load introduced into space with ROTW, so Firstly we have to upgrade the servers. Once thats doen we have to take over THIRTY ships and rebalance them with EIGHT ships that havent even been balanced with EACH OTHER. Once this is done we then have to REBALANCE EVERY single ship component ingame as they are all balanced for JLT (preROTW) ships mass and manouverability ranges.
OR
You could just balance the EIGHT new ROTW ships in with the EXISTING working balance system.
HMM, 1-2 weeks of work compared to 6 months to a year of work. Yeah you JSF lovers are right lets take the longer route to fixing it. And the longer way your ships will STILL end up balanced with everyone elses, so you dont gain that much of an advantage.
I'd like to direct your attention to my post a a few scrolls up clearing quoting a Dev and giving a link about the changing of some ships. Not to be rude it is staring you in the face.
RedOnedi wrote:
/sigh
First of all folks, when it comes to canon, it seems like everyone is wrong and right at the same time...but here is the reality:
Star Wars Galaxies is not the prequels
Star Wars Galaxies is not the originals
Star Wars Galaxies is not the expanded universe
Star Wars Galaxies is not the Star Wars complete manual (or whatever these books are called that people are linking to)
Star Wars Galaxies is an alternate Star Wars reality, with an attempt at fun, and being part of a Star Wars universe. Notice I did not say *the*, I said *a*, and this is an important distinction that has been made by SOE in the past. As long as SOE continues to make this game profitable, and as long as they do not *defame* George Lucas, or his creation, they will stay at the helm. SOE has made an amalgamation of all of these eras in the Star Wars universe, and added their own flair, to give us a (notice I again said a) Star Wars universe in which we can participate, with the ultimate goal being fun. It is far from perfect, but all things considered, it is really well done. Honestly, these canon arguments really need to stop, because they only apply in the barest of backdrop scenery ways.
Secondly, this JSF thing:
I don't know why no one has said this yet but...there is a really good reason it's nicknamed the Jedi Star Fighter...both the Eta 2, and its predecessor (Obi Wan's from EP 2, don't know the name), are starfighters that are so tricked out, only a Jedi can fly them. I have no idea if they have/had shields/hyperdrives, but it really does not matter since all player-pilotable ships *must* have the option to load them (or not, in the case of Rapax's Suicidal Maniac :cool
The JSF (in fact all of the ROTW ships):
Choose to fly it
Choose not to fly it
The reason(s) for either are your own, and are completely valid, as it is your play experience that matters, not anyone else's opinion on it...but don't be an ass and begrudge someone their choice (to fly, or not to fly, that is the question), just because you are on one side of the fence or the other.
In case anyone wonders:
If I need to get something done, or just want to have a lot of fun, chances are I will pull either my Actis, or my Vaksai out of the barn. I could use a Dunelizard, but I am out of spots for ships atm, and I use my lizard for mining.
If I want to really work on making myself a better pilot, I pull out my Krayt, since I cannot fly against tier 5 capital ships worth a damn in that thing, but I use it to make myself better.
If I were an Imperial pilot - I would fly the Tie Advanced, or the Oppressor, both almost exclusively...I would fly my JSF when I wanted to have some fun, and that's about it.
If I were a Rebel pilot - X-wing, A-wing, maybe B-wing, exclusively...same applies for JSF in above example.
Just fly in space however it brings you the most fun/success/loot/whatever, and don't scorn anyone else's choice in doing the same.
Both the canon, and ROTW ship arguments really just need to go away, but I don't think they ever will
Domingo
Edit: I see someone quoted DP as saying something which I see as rather important..."and boy does that sure make them fun to fly." That's why the ROTW ships are built the way they are...they provide a very fun, exciting *Star Wars elite pilot* feel to the game for a lot of the pilots out there. I am sure that it turns space into easy mode for a lot of the veteran/hardcore/just plain good pilots out there...but you can choose not to use them.Truly, I feel for the veterans...they got shafted both ways when these ships came out. Using them, PvE is easy mode = no fun. Not using them in DS may lead to possible disadvantages in PvP = also not fun. I understand the calls for nerf but as it stands right now you have 3 choices: Accept the challenge, fly them, or unsubscribe. The same 3 choices that the rest of us have. Before you flame, hopefully you have read what I currently do, and what I would (will) do if I was Imp or Reb.EnjoyMessage Edited by RedOnedi on 08-01-2005 02:49 PM
Here is a link to the Venator-class Star Destroyer saying the the "Standard fighter complement was 192 V-Wing starfighters, 192 Eta-2 Actis Interceptors, and 36 ARC-170 starfighters." You really think they put 192 Jedi on each one of these things? So you wouldn't need to be a Jedi to fly it. But that's beside the point here. The point is the these ships aren't balanced. Sure, flying them is fun, but if the Devs just wanted them to be for fun, they wouldn't allow it to have guns. I don't want it nerfed, just changed, or all the ships to be level with it. I agree that SWG isn't a exact replica of what is in the movies or EU, but it shouldn't go out of control. Let SOE add their owns designs, but don't add something that just doesn't work with both timeline and player balance.