Pilot Archive

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JanuHull wrote:

Well, we've b*tched and moaned enough. How would you change them? What would make them "balanced" in your opinion? Lets run this under the "rational" assumption that we're bringing the new ships into line with the old.

I'm only commenting myself on ships I've faced personally.

Imperial Guard Interceptor: Fix the hitbox location

Actis-2:Reduce mass to 60k. I can live with it being small, I can live with it having top performance maneuverability, but having 50% more mass than a ship its 33% smaller than, doesn't fit logic or gameplay balance. Reduce weapons load out to one gun.

Bel-22:Same as the Actis.

Advanced X-Wing: Reduce mass to 140k or worsen flight performance to match its enhanced mass. 180k puts it entirely too close to a B-Wing's level of loadout with a space superiority level of performance.

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In edition to this...I think the JSF etc should have it's mass brought down. Same with the Heavy X-wing and Vaksai [because the Vaksai really doesn't -need- 150k mass.

Mainly though, I want to see the RGTIE hitbox fixed. If even they -only- fixed that, I'd be happier.

/shrug. I'm sticking to my A-wing regardless ofif I die more now[got bored of the belb after five minutes], simply put the challenge isn't there...not the kind of challenge I'm after anyhow. As I see it, I'll only ever respect anyone who kills me in pvp if they're flying somthing similar to my ship or worse. Like Haro the other day with his lvl 6 engine and T/A. Thats what I call good...

Message Edited by LeaphChausew on 08-15-2005 11:21 AM

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silverlady wrote:

But my original question still remains: If you are capable of smoking ROTW ships with ease in a JTL ship, and if you choose to not fly them in your own PvE adventures...exactly how are they unbalancing for you? We have covered PvP, we have covered the learning curve, we have covered a possible solution of changing all ROTW ships to master level certs, but my original question is still unanswered...how do any of these things affect you, in your own personal gaming experiences, other than the *ambience* in space?

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Since there's very little master content other than PvP, and PvP is where most of the imbalance becomes evident, isn't that enough of an answer?

Pilots are driven towards the best. Pre-RotW I considered (briefly, not sure I could stand the scum!) going rebel to fly the A-Wing, as I considered it superior to Imperial ships in terms of my flying style. Even if people here brag about smoking RotW ships, the truth of the matter is that two equally matched Aces, one in an RotW and one in a JTL ship, the RotW will win. There is a clear best right now which so clearly outshines the original ships, that the only think keeping Deep Space from becoming a sea of RotW ships are stubborn pilots like myself who, for whatever reason, have self imposed restrictions on what we'll fly. But I have to concede that I will die quite often in my TIE Interceptor, as some of the better pilots on Bloodfin do like the new ships.

I do (sometimes) fly an Actis in PvE, just for the added firepower. But PvE is boarderline trivial in nearly any ship.

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S-1-l2-H-C wrote:

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DeepFatFryer wrote:
ROTW ships are not fun.

They take any fun out of Jump To Lightspeed's excellent component-statistics game. JTL kept me amused from the moment it was launched until the moment ROTW hit.

I am currently thinking of cancelling my account thanks to the fact that these new ships are too instantly-gratifying and generic/faceless.

I feel that some other posters have made the balance arguments better than I could, so I shall leave my post at this.

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that "excellent component-statistics game" went out the window as soon as they started nerfing loot. JTL for me was getting boring because i hit the limit on what an awing could do and there was no room left for improvment since parts of the quality i had no longer dropped.

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DeepFatFryer wrote:


Be that as it may, I still feel the ROTW ships killed off the bettering-your-ship game for me personally.

I do wish SOE would start getting things right the first time though, instead of putting a half-thought-through system in. This goes for your comment about loot nerfs and ROTW ships. Infact it could go for half of this game

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Actually Attacca, that is not enough of an answer, and here's why: It sounds like both of us (and many others as well) do not fly the ROTW ships, particularly the JSF/Belb for the above mentioned reasons. However, the good/uber pilots who do fly them cannot be faulted for using what they consider to be the best tool available for the job. I am not saying that you fault them, nor that you implied it...I'm just saying that a good pilot who flies these ships, for any reason, should not be looked down upon.

After playing Devil's Advocate for a bit, now I'm going to change over into a more constructive mode. Here is what I personally would like to see happen in the near future (after bugs are fixed) in the first balance pass that will probably happen, knowing SOE:

There is only one real nerf, and here it is - the heavy variants of the starter ships need to be brought down to 65k mass, and put on a tier 4 certification. What this does: it removes the ability for first-time pilots to easily go up the pilot tree on their own with no consideration for mass needed. It also leaves these chassis as a viable choice in any endgame encounter, on par with the A-wing and Tie Advanced, etc.

All ROTW ships moved to master level certification. In addition...all ROTW ships are locked out of deep space. What this does - It restores deep space PvP to what it used to be, with the addition of the heavy starters for added variety. All ROTW ship owners can still use them for PvE, be it farming, questing that does not involve deep space (none currently), and overt PvP in normal space. No ships get nerfed, and old-school PvP is restored. I would think that most everyone could live with this outcome...

And the last - sorry I lied, one more nerf...all pre-nerf DI's need to go. I hear a lot of folks saying that these are not a big deal, but I think they are. Put everyone back on a level field in terms of equipment. When I say level playing field, I mean that every pilot, with enough effort and patience (or luck), has the same opportunity to bulid their ship as those of us who have been flying for a long time do. Right now, that's not totally the case, and it needs to be.

What does anyone think of these ideas? Any and all opinions are encouraged, and welcomed.

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silverlady wrote:

There is only one real nerf, and here it is - the heavy variants of the starter ships need to be brought down to 65k mass, and put on a tier 4 certification.

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S-1-l2-H-C wrote:

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DeepFatFryer wrote:


Be that as it may, I still feel the ROTW ships killed off the bettering-your-ship game for me personally.

I do wish SOE would start getting things right the first time though, instead of putting a half-thought-through system in. This goes for your comment about loot nerfs and ROTW ships. Infact it could go for half of this game

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ive really given up hope on SOE making JTl what it could be, simply because i think they are incapable of it. the whole system is flawed right down to the increadibly small star systems. JTL as it is though is still alot of fun in large scale pvp, which is the only reason i stick around.

i am hoping that someday we will get a starwars galaxies 2 that will make space combat more like XWA and also has an EVE online style capital ship system.

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That'd be cool.

Hmm however. To be honest, I don't know. I have fun working on my little A-wing still and seeing how I can compare with the better ships. There is no doubt about the fact that they are better. I mean...you can say that some of the older pilots are just sore because they don't kick a** as much anymore but..you really havn't been flying enough if you think that is the attitude. Fact is, -everyone- has access to these ships and most of the older pilots are indeed actually flying them...and are more or less invincible. The fact newer pilots last longer too is complete rubbish. The only case that is true for is the RG TIE and personally I am yet to even have my A-wing touched by a new pilot in a new uber ship.

The things I don't like about the new ships are mainly canon related and its been demonstrated time and time again that canon in this game really doesn't seem to matter so that kills a large part of my argument. The only ship which is in desperate need of fix is the RG TIE and I'll stick by that no matter what. When you're in a battle where the guy you're fighting can't get a shot even close to you and you've pounded them 600 times over but none of those shots have registered on it's miniscule hitbox..it isn't funny. It isn't even helping the new pilot as they have no hope of ever scoring a hit on you..and even then their victory would be false. For every badmouthed RG TIE pilot who has sent hate tells to me when I've simply gone to FP Farm because even then they can't hit me...I've just told them 'well you just died about 20 times over anyway so bring back a real ship..even a JSF would do and we'll try again'. The point is..if a pilot is really that bad, no amount of reducing the hitbox is going to make them fly any better. It just prolongs their agony and gives them a bad attitude.

At least the JSF accepts when it has been hit..even if the mass allows a good engine/gun/shield and multiple shield shunts in between infrequent hits.

Hm. Ok, I could rant on for ages with things I'm not happy about with the game but yet again, this is another thead which will end up going in circles. How many times have we had this debate now since ROTW launch? Nothing has been done and I can't see anything being done about it. I've resigned myself to not liking the situation...but lumping it none the less. I'm easily broken on that front...however no amount of super funky cool uber 'I win' ships are going to drag me out of my A-wing just so I might be able to 'win' a bit more. I don't fly to just kill things. I fly so I can look pretty and A-wing like...and occasionally 'hey there goes a Leaph shaped A-wing debris cloud'.

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Death_Blossom wrote:

I've had friendly duels and the ever popular shield pinging some people like to do with JSFs and Bel-22s. To be honest, I'm even less impressed with them. I fly a Rihk, a ship with the target profile of a small country, and I still was able to outperform those ships. In the hands of a more capable pilot, I'm sure the RotW ships are challenging but I don't feel they are any better than the JTL originals.

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TrevetOlivaw wrote:

I know I don't post much here, but I think I'd like to throw my 2 cents in, as someone who wants to be an A-wing or regular X-wing pilot in PvP down the line. I've been frequenting the forums for a few weeks now, learning all sorts of awesome things, but I have noticed some constants, and some of these do regard the ROTW ships.

Firstly, my proposed changes:

RGI: Fix hitbox (by which I mean make it the same size as the Interceptor, not a JSF. These games should at least try to mirror what I see when I'm flying, and when I start putting shot after shot through any ship without hitting it because it's designated hitbox is smaller than the 3D model, I get annoyed) I realize this makes it essentially an interceptor with 20k more mass.....I'd say thats a pretty nice boost right there. I don't think a 2nd gunslot should be out of the question, though perhaps that should result in decreased maneuverability. Basically a Heavy Interceptor model, maybe with 100k mass, great speed, 2 guns, but less turning.

Actis: Reduce mass. I know its hard to get a pair of guns in there, but definitely not impossible, and using two L6 guns certainly isn't any weaker than a single L8 gun. The thing hasonly slightly reducedspeed and better turning than theTIE Adv.and A-wing, with more guns and mass. The hitbox is no bigger than either ship, certainly. I'd say you either knock down mass to 55-60k, or knock down maneuver to something around the A-wing/Advanced performance. Personally I'd like to see the maneuverability changed downward. Just looking at the values on the JSF has caused me to do a double-take about 6 times.

B-22: Similar to Actis. I'd say for variety still in ship-thought, maybe give one the reduced mass, and reduce the maneuver on the other one. Both will then still be slower than the Awing/Advanced, but have other advantages that still make them powerful.

Adv. X-wing: I admit, I'm a giant fan of this ship and its (to quote someone who I forgot) Lawn-mowing capabilities. And it really doesn't turn that well, certainly not at speed (though the .5 best turn does have its own advantages...). However, I'd say knocking off 30k mass (bringing overall mass to 150k) wouldn't hurt you.

Vaksai: For people who have said the Vaksai doesn't need balancing, but recommending dropping the heavy X to 150k mass or below.....are you kidding me? The vaksai has one of the highest masses, as 1.0 speed modifier, and turns better than any JTL ship (excepting starting ships and TIE Fighters). Admittedly, it only has one gun. I'd say you still need to somehow bring it into balance. I was considering maybe a 2nd missile hardpoint, with a mass reduced to 100k, and speed maybe chopped to ARC level .97.

Heavy Starters: Reduce maneuver on these. RIght now, none of them are really that great, the hitboxes are gigantic, and your weapons loadout can never be awesome. But for a starter ship, it's a little ridiculous. Chopping it in half seems good.

ARC-170: This ship I have never seen as unbalanced, perhaps because of its lack of use. Can't really say much about it other than the 125k mass really cant go down very much, and its neither as fast, nor as maneuverable as many other ships out there. I've always felt awkward flying it. I also consider it one of the biggest selling points for altering the vaksai's mass lower.

Y-8: I want one. Give me a break. However you broke it, assuming it wasn't intentional, fix it.

Gonna hit briefly - with allof my few secondsofexperience showing so clearly - on what Silverlady has said. Yes, the new ships are great, powerful toys for younger players just starting out. Thing is though, when you take that ship designed to be extremely powerful so thatthe new guycan solo asquadron of TIE Advanced and get that 'Star Wars' feel, and place it in the hands of the pilots that were ALREADY soloing a wing of Advanced in a Y-wing.....well, it's unbalancing. Also, to be frank, the new guys who rush through, grab the JSF or RGI and start going, "GREAT, this is so much fun now!".....do you honestly think those are the type of players that seriously care about all these stats, and balancing? Nope. They just got their ship, and now they like killing stuff in it. Change the stats, they probably will barely notice. On the other hand, those that PvP seriously, who've spent hours and days and weeks improving their PvP flying, getting REable parts, etc.....to those guys, it makes a giant difference. Suddenly their old Advanced/A-wing (actuallytwo wonderfully new and revolutionary starfighters)are a match for these antiques out there in space. And if the newer guys notice, and start getting annoyed because suddenly they have to think a little when they fly....well, no harm in that. I really doubt people will be quitting just because their ships are closer to the JTL level of capability.

Also, any point made about pre-nerf components, or the veterans having all these great parts, and how that requires new guys to get uber ships to balance all the great parts the vets have....that argument is ridiculous from the get-go. Because NOW, those vets still have those absolutely awesome parts, and they are sticking them in the new newbie toys, and making ships so unbelievable that when matched with these pilots flying ability.... Well, let's just say the pilots themselves feel bad and terribly unfair using them. Many have stopped. Some don't, and I can easily understand both perspectives. Any uberness granted to a brand new pilot is given x10 to the vets out there.

On the point of all those uber-parts.....those are parts these vets earned. They didn't fall into their lap, and no one is giving away the type of stuff we are talking about. Sure, maybe someone find a non-pilot selling one of the best reactors in the game for 3k....doesn't happen very much. Thevetswent out, and they took duty mission after duty mission, spent hours upon hours in DS, bought for ridiculously insane prices all of the nicest stuff they could find. They masted all 9 badges (not just for equipment, but also for fun and experience, too). I don't want some new player to come in and be able to immediately match that sort of performance and effort (and as noted earlier, thats not how it works out anyway).

As far as making the new ships master level certs....I'm sorry. I've seen pilots walked from Novice Pilot to Master Pilot by guild members or friends, without ever having to learn anything or do anything other than survive some of the hairier missions long enough for friends to kill the assailants. You just postpone the problem by making them master level certs, and some people can and will get carried all the way. I don't think its a bad idea, but it's no solution.

Ultimately, skill is still the largest factor in a space PvP fight. If you are significantly better than the other pilot, doesn't matter much who's flying what, he's going down. But the ROTW ships have suddenly introduced ships that mean that if you are only a little better, and using a classic JTL ship, you might go down despite your parts, efforts, and skills. OK, fine. The pilot community seems to have come to terms with that, and has learned how to fight the new menaces. But their rapid ability to adapt to a suddenly monochromatic lookin space does not mean that the impact isn't still felt, or that the new additions are good things in their current form.

Anyway, that's my two cents on it.

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ok here is my opnion im a old fart that loved the tie fighter game so maybe i know something im talking about and maybe im a quack.

first off dont nerf anything let the new ships for the most part stay as they are other than a few adjustments like the hit box yes that isnt fair i agree needs a fix . next think about this if you bring the other ships up to par with the new ones then it will be a lot more lvled out like the jsf it should be a relic so why would it out perform a new military fighter that right off the carrier . thats like sending a p-52 ww2 eray plane and putting it head first againts a f-16 not much of a fair fight right? you would think . ok so how about taking the ties and start with the heavy make that the standard tie and adjust them from the the interceptor it should have another gun port , bomber should recieve another missile slot its a bomber duh! the x-wing was a stolen plan from the empire it should be a top notch fighter good mass and loadout no question about that but if so were is the tie defender it was supposed to combat that ship . Got forgoten i guess if we got relics why not prototype's also. netural ships for the lower lvl's i generally think arenbt that usefull . Having mastered several pilot class myself i can find several ships in each that have there purpose and i dont think the netural ships do a very good job of that as your leveling up .the heavy x wing should show some handling loss due to the mass incress but not to much to make it a slow target . well this is a few things i was thinking about but like i said just my thoughts

Thanks and take it easy