Pilot Archive

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silverlady wrote:

But for you to continuously call for a nerf of the ships that 80% (or more) of the pilots in space use, and enjoy using, just because they make you *not as uber in PvP*, is wrong.

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If they're not unbalanced, why does 80% fly these new ships then?

And we're not complaining about not being uber, we're complaining about being too uber. Our old school skills, our painfully RE'd low mass components and knowledge of the game means we kick the carp out of everything in PvE and all the new pilots. We prefer a challenge, not an "I win" ship.

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JanuHull wrote:

Well, we've b*tched and moaned enough. How would you change them? What would make them "balanced" in your opinion? Lets run this under the "rational" assumption that we're bringing the new ships into line with the old.

I'm only commenting myself on ships I've faced personally.

Imperial Guard Interceptor: Fix the hitbox location

Actis-2: Reduce mass to 60k. I can live with it being small, I can live with it having top performance maneuverability, but having 50% more mass than a ship its 33% smaller than, doesn't fit logic or gameplay balance. Reduce weapons load out to one gun.

Bel-22: Same as the Actis.

Advanced X-Wing: Reduce mass to 140k or worsen flight performance to match its enhanced mass. 180k puts it entirely too close to a B-Wing's level of loadout with a space superiority level of performance.

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Janu - I want to thank you for not taking the typical approach to responding to a post such as the one I made. You have taken the intelligent, and well-spoken path, and I applaud you for it.

In addition, you are correct on all counts, and I agree with you on almost every point that you made.

Yet, you contradict yourself in the last paragraph: First, you say that uberness is the combination of skill and wit, not the ship you fly, but at the end, you say that the ability to tinker your ship to perfection is/was the hallmark of a true Ace pilot...which boils down to the ship that you fly giving even more of an edge than your skills and wit.

I agree that SOE made 2 mistakes concerning ROTW ships, and both of them are in the area of certification levels. They all should be Master level certs, period. That way, every pilot (including those of us who grind/regrind pilot profs) would have to reach their mastery in an original ship. Then, after reaching mastery, use the *easy mode* ships, if they choose. No easy road to mastery for anyone, and that's how it should be.

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silverlady wrote:

Janu - I want to thank you for not taking the typical approach to responding to a post such as the one I made. You have taken the intelligent, and well-spoken path, and I applaud you for it.

In addition, you are correct on all counts, and I agree with you on almost every point that you made.

Yet, you contradict yourself in the last paragraph: First, you say that uberness is the combination of skill and wit, not the ship you fly, but at the end, you say that the ability to tinker your ship to perfection is/was the hallmark of a true Ace pilot...which boils down to the ship that you fly giving even more of an edge than your skills and wit.

I agree that SOE made 2 mistakes concerning ROTW ships, and both of them are in the area of certification levels. They all should be Master level certs, period. That way, every pilot (including those of us who grind/regrind pilot profs) would have to reach their mastery in an original ship. Then, after reaching mastery, use the *easy mode* ships, if they choose. No easy road to mastery for anyone, and that's how it should be.

Rapax - Not that many pre-nerf items? I disagree, completely. You also say that most, if not all, of them are not being used anymore because of the ROTW ships...which is part of my point. The fact that these ships exist practically forces those of us who have/had this pre-nerf equipment to start using other things, which a brand new pilot also has access to - equipment advantage nullified. This sucks, but I am glad to see it happen, because I feel wrong if I use a pre-nerf DI in deep space, knowing that the chances that my opponent has one are less than 50%, which can allow me to mount that little bit extra firepower, armor, etc...and they can't.

SOE messed up: they went a bit overboard when they tweaked the values on these ships, but here is the thing that just can't be ignored. The primary reason was fun factor for the largest part of the playerbase as a whole in space. And while these ships are *easy mode* for any pilot worth their salt, we have the option to not use them.

A final point: I have noticed a lot of the same people who claim that these ships are unbalanced, also say that they destroy them with ease. This comes down to skill, wits, and supreme ship knowledge (assuming you are using a JTL ship), which still leaves you with the ultimate edge...experience. SOE was able to level the equipment availalbe playing field, but they cannot protect uninformed newbies from an experienced pilot in PvP, regardless of the ships involved.

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Washell - The reason is that they are fun to fly for most pilots. I don't fly mine very often, but I do sometimes. I have a lot more fun in my old school ships. Instead of asking for a nerf, why not ask for harder content? I know harder content has been requested for quite some time, as well as master only content besides deep space, but I think that should be the focus, not nerfing the ships.

Attacca - Looking at my post count, and assuming that I do not read the majority of threads on this forum on a daily basis is a bad assumption...and quite wrong.

I want to apologize for my Jedi talk comment in my original post. Even though it is howI feel sometimes, I should not have said it. I asked for a civil discussion, yet I opened with a blatant flame, and for that I apologize. I do appreciate not being flamed so far in this discussion.

Just for clarification:

Vets - I am in your camp, believe me. I too, wish that it could go back to the way it used to be. That being said, nerfing the new ships is not the right way to go. Nor is boosting some, or all of the old ships. One way angers a lot of people, the other way angers the most experienced, so these are not good solutions. Sometimes I think that maybe not allowing the ROTW ships into deep space would be a decent option, although if they did that, it would be nice if they boosted the Kiraxzh closer to the T/A and A-wing...maybe 55k, or 60k mass, so that while still being more responsive, it would have to make a sacrifice somewhere that the other two would not to balance them.

And if we really want to get down to it - all, repeat all, snub fighters are way overpowered...period. While it is true that some can be/are godly in a Kraty/B-wing/Rixh, etc, it is debatable whether or not they are the best choice in PvP as it currently stands. Nerfs to all snub fighters I would be happy to see, and maybe some offensive/defensive (particularly defensive) boost to the heavier ships. Keep in mind that my style of flying caters to a small, agile fighter, and a nerf/change of this direction would cause some adjustment on my part.

You are absolutely correct, Janu...absolutely. I would love to go back to the days of JTL only ships, but nerfing the ROTW ships is not the way to go. Besides, because of the responsiveness and hitbox issues, SOE would have to nerf the ships (particularly the JSF/Belb) to below the A-wing and T/A...otherwise, they would still be *the better ships*, even if you took off a gun mount. Frankly, flying a JSF sells games, not the old stuff, and that is the as-yet-unmentioned-by-me (but mentioned by others in the past)central point of their current status.

As far as the learning curve: As I stated before, if all ROTW ships were master level certs only, then all new pilots would have to learn the skills, and experience the trials and tribulations of going up the pilot tree the way we had to...except, they don't have a pre-nerf DI, and I am willing to bet that most, if not all, of us that have been flying since JTL launched (or beta) had, and still have at least one of these. And they do make a difference, especially on the original ships. Someone in this thread said something about *having to learn how to fly a ship that doesn't turn well*...well, only Rebels *had* to go through this. Neither Imperials nor Freelance had this situation forced on them. Imps had mass management, Rebels had the Y-wing, and Freelance...well, Freelance got the easy ride, imo. Back to the point, as it stands right now, these new pilots who may or may not have learned the flying and mass/equipment management skills that we had to learn - they will have to learn at some point, if they want to be competitive in deep space.

Well, just to close out here. JSF's can sell all the games it wants, but that doesn't imply its supposed to be the end all be all fighter.

I do like the idea of moving them to Master level certs.

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silverlady wrote:

Attacca - Looking at my post count, and assuming that I do not read the majority of threads on this forum on a daily basis is a bad assumption...and quite wrong.

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Attacca - I didn't say that you said that, I said that your post implies that I have not read any of those threads. It sounds like I was mistaken in reading your post, and for that I apologize. That's the thing about text communication, there is no inflection in the words, no body language, so we are forced to take it at face value...which is most often not the way it was meant.

Janu - I understand what you (and others) are trying to say, and I do agree...where we disagree is when it comes down to what to do about it (if anything). Nerfing new/boosting old are not the right way to go. If folks want to try to call either of these methods *balancing*, go ahead...but it's really not balancing, it'sthe desireto restore something that really was not balanced on any point other than mass in the first place.

I'd be happy if SOE locked all ROTW ships out of deep space...quite happy indeed.

But my original question still remains: If you are capable of smoking ROTW ships with ease in a JTL ship, and if you choose to not fly them in your own PvE adventures...exactly how are they unbalancing for you? We have covered PvP, we have covered the learning curve, we have covered a possible solution of changing all ROTW ships to master level certs, but my original question is still unanswered...how do any of these things affect you, in your own personal gaming experiences, other than the *ambience* in space?