Pilot Archive

and you still wont likely see people taking their pob ships out very much because even the new pob equipment is only marginally better than the original mk 5 stuff

for an example, on anelite shield, i'd like to see, oh maybe 7k hps with 25 recharge

the elite guns, oh like 8k max with the max damage sub component,

as fighters go, i have a problem with adding 80k mass to an xwing, while adding only 30k to the interceptor(and still only 1 gun, while the xwing has 3, which is 1 too many imo)

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Kitten_Starsider wrote:

I would like to disagree on the issue of the A-Wing being overpowered.

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As a longtime (and now former) imperial pilot who's flown against Awings several times, i agree completely. The T/I and T/A are infact superior in manuverabitly (4.4 Yaw/Pitch in A wing vs 5.2 or 5.4 Yaw/Pitch in T/I or T/A)

What makes the A wing good is its small profile. Its very hard to hit .... with guns.. *COUGH* What i always thought unfair, was how the oppressor trumps it the rebels best playing card.

Well, of course my opinions are just that, my opinons.

On the other hand I'd like to see some actual stats on what is being proposed. If you don't like the JSF stats what would you suggest to make them fair?

For examples sake:

• Current Jedi Starfighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R


• Adjusted Jedi Starfighter: 65k mass, 2 SP Weapon, 1 Ordance, 1.0 speed, 250/250/125 P/Y/R


• Another Adjusted Jedi Starfighter: 50k mass, 2 SP Weapon, 1 Ordance, 1.0 speed 300/300/150 P/Y/R

(btw, I just used the current AWing and Intercepter stats as examples for the suggested changes... livable? too little? too much? Discussion?)

Some more suggested numbers instead of unspecific NERF this NERF that. How would you change it? My point is, if you leave the Dev's to their own devices we might as well pull these ships from the game. Personally, I like em and don't want that to happen. Keep them useful but brought into "balance" would be fine with me.

Can we start listing some reasonable solutions for the Dev's here? Less theroy, more hard numbers.

/bowrespectfully

Heavy Scyk: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R (Not as many complaints...)
Heavy TIE/Ln: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R (Not as many complaints...)
Heavy Z-95: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R (Not as many complaints...)

ARC-170: 125K mass(?), 1 SP weapon 2 MP, ? ordnance, ? speed, ?/?/? P/Y/R
Grievous Fighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R (Major NERF Cries...)
Jedi Starfighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R (Same stats as above, so major NERF cries)

Heavy X-Wing: 180K mass, 3 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95/.90 speed foils open/closed(?), 300/200/150 P/Y/(?) (Needs a NERF'in?)
Imperial Guard Interceptor: 80K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, 1.0 speed, 400/400/200 P/Y/R(?) (Needs a NERF'in?)
Vaksai: 150K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, 1.0 speed, 300/300/150 P/Y/R(?) (Needs a NERF'in?)

My main thing is, everytime the Dev's try to balance something for us, "in our best interests or the best interests of the game" It usually ends in a cluster f*** that renders that mechanic pointless, useless, or lame. If you want to see something NERF'ed lets get some hard numbers first.

Message Edited by Vegitaa on 05-09-2005 03:54 PM

Hey TomoRainer, wanna chime in? (Very nice, discussion going here. Would love to hear your input.. not a single flame yet!!!! WOOT!!! Pilots for the Win!)

Rough layout i would have done.

Heavy starters: 40K mass, teir 4 or master level cert, Same YPR as now.

Grevious & Jedi starfighter: Same stats as T/A. Yeah i know, how vanilla, but they shouldnt be ovepowering, just different.


Heavy Xwing: same YPR, but make mass like 110K to 120K tops!
RG T/I: 65 to 70K mass, 2 gunmounts, same YPR as T/A.
Vaksai: 65K mass, same YPR.

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Ducimus wrote:
Rough layout i would have done.

Heavy starters: 40K mass, teir 4 or master level cert, Same YPR as now.

Grevious & Jedi starfighter: Same stats as T/A. Yeah i know, how vanilla, but they shouldnt be ovepowering, just different.


Heavy Xwing: same YPR, but make mass like 110K to 120K tops!
RG T/I: 65 to 70K mass, 2 gunmounts, same YPR as T/A.
Vaksai: 65K mass, same YPR.

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See, thats what I mean, lets give the Dev's some hard numbers. Otherwise... well.. y'know.

Those are stats I know I could live with btw....

Actually, Ducimus is really close to where I was thinking the ships should end up before I saw the numbers in beta. I thought 40K would be a great mass for the light heavies, 120-140K on the Heavy X, 70Kish with two guns on the new Interceptor, maybe 70K on the Jedi and 80K on the Grievous (bigger profile--though actually I thought this ship was going to end up like the Rihkxyrk, or something crazy like 60K mass and 3 weapons), and 70-80K on the Vaksai (bigger profile, too). I'd probably have messed with the speed mod and PYR accel rates, too, as I'm not sure they were given much weight. These kind of numbers would keep the new ships close to existing models while not lending them too great an advantage.

Problem here, though, is the new ships are undeniably fun. I stuck a freshly RE'd level 10 engine in my Jedi Starfighter and took her out for a test spin and, to be honest, the things I was able to do with it were both exciting and scary. Exciting because it's one hell of a ship.. scary because it might be too much ship.

I'm pretty concerned about the balance issues on these, particularly when it comes to PVP and the blurring of specialized roles. For instance, I always loved the Dunelizard as a light/medium hybrid that excelled at neither but could do well at both. Now, however, the Jedi Starfighter packs a pretty good mass and firepower onto a light fighter's frame--and not only does this obsolete all the old light fighters, but it may have usurped the superiority role from ships like the standard X-Wing. It strikes down a lot of the tradeoffs and limitations that used to keep such an impressive balance to JTL.

How do we restore that balance? And how do we reconcile these ships' PVP superiority with the fact that, Heavy X-Wing aside, they're really not that great in PVE, where firepower remains a top priority? How do we keep them fun and exciting and worth the effort without turning them into clones of JTL ships? If we think they need a nerfing, how do we prevent soon-to-be-massively-overpowered pre-nerf chassis from existing when preexisting items are almost never changed when a balance pass comes around?

Basically, how do we get them to fit into the range of ships we've already got in a way that's both rewarding and fair? Are there more creative solutions than a simple mass nerf? Are there basic systemic changes we could make that would both integrate the new ships and create better-defined roles for some of the more neglected ships, such as the TIE Bomber, Ixiyen, Y-Wing, etc.? Because, in some ways, it's not that these new ships are overpowered so much as they expose flaws and simplicities in the original JTL system--flaws which it would now be the perfect time to address.

Those are some of the things I'm thinking about now. My personal inclination is they mess with balance too much and need to be changed, but I'm holding back from pressing hard on the issue till I've heard more from the community. If you've got an opinion one way or the other on these ships, now's the time to air it.

I'll say it again: preserve the heavy novies. They are the only new ship that is craftable. Let them compete.

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CommTampers wrote:
I'll say it again: preserve the heavy novies. They are the only new ship that is craftable. Let them compete.

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Tomo, Vic, Ducimus, hell even Vid.. How about this....

Here is my proposal.... I do not support NERFing anything, but if balance is to be had, this is a good start....

(I copied these stats from the "New Ship Stats" Thread as well as the Pilot FAQ - thanks and credit given to the original posters...)

Current known ship stats in Green, My proposed changes in Red.

Rebel:

• Z-95: 5k Resources ~12k mass [SP: 1 Gun] 1 missile [Spdx 0.95 Acc 50 Dec 50 Pitch 600 Yaw 600 Roll 300]


• Y-Wing: 15k Resources ~150k mass [SP: 1 Gun MP:+1] 1 missile[Spdx 0.85 Acc 15 Dec 25 Pitch 80 Yaw 80 Roll 40]


• Y-Wing LP: 30k Resources ~170k mass [SP: 2 Guns] 2 missiles[Spdx 0.85 Acc 10 Dec 20 Pitch 70 Yaw 70 Roll 35]


• X-Wing: 60k Resources ~100k mass [SP: 3 Guns] 1 missiles [Spdx 0.95(Foils Closed) 0.90(Foils Open) Acc 25 Dec 30 Pitch 300 Yaw 200 Roll 150]


• A-Wing: 80k Resources ~65k mass [SP: 1 Guns] 1 missile[Spdx 1.0 Acc 40 Dec 60 Pitch 250 Yaw 250 Roll 125]


• Heavy Z-95: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R


• Revised Z-95: 80k mass, 1 sp weapon, 1 ordance, .95 speed 600/600/300 P/Y/R


• Heavy X-Wing: 180K mass, 3 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95/.90 speed foils open/closed(?), 300/200/150 P/Y/(?)


• ARC-170: 125K mass(?), 1 SP weapon 2 MP, ? ordnance, ? speed, ?/?/? P/Y/R


• Revised ARC-170: 125K mass, 1 SP weapon, 2 MP weapons, 1 ordance, .95/.90 speed foils open/closed, 275/275/175 P/Y/R


• B-Wing: 150k Resources ~240k mass [SP: 4 Guns] 2 missiles [Spdx 0.85(Foils Closed) 0.80 (Foils Open) Acc 10 Dec 15 Pitch 50 Yaw 50 Roll 25]


• Nova Courier: 150k Resources ~5m mass [SP: 0 Guns MP:+2] 3 missiles [Spdx 0.8 Acc 5 Dec 5 Pitch 50 Yaw 50 Roll 37.5]

Freelancer:

• Scyk: 5k Resources ~12k mass [SP: 1 Guns] 1 missile [Spdx 0.95 Acc 50 Dec 50 Pitch 600 Yaw 600 Roll 300]


• Dunelizard: 15k Resources ~85k mass [SP: 2 Guns] 1 missile [Spdx 0.95 Acc 30 Dec 30 Pitch 300 Yaw 300 Roll 150]


• Kihraxz: 30k Resources ~40k mass [SP: 1 Guns] 1 missile [Spdx 1.0 Acc 40 Dec 50 Pitch 400 Yaw 400 Roll 200]


• Kimogila: 30k Resources ~110k mass [SP: 3 Guns] 1 missile [Spdx 0.92 Acc 35 Dec 35 Pitch 100 Yaw 100 Roll 50]


• Ixiyen: 65k Resources ~95k mass [SP: 2 Guns] 1 missile [Spdx 0.95 Acc 25 Dec 30 Pitch 200 Yaw 200 Roll 100]


• Rihxyrk: 90k Resources ~190k mass [SP: 3 Guns] 1 missile [Spdx 0.89 Acc 35 Dec 35 Pitch 100 Yaw 100 Roll 50]


• Heavy Scyk: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R


• Revised Heavy Scyk: 80k mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordance, 1.0 speed, 400/400/100 P/Y/R


• Vaksai: 150K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, 1.0 speed, 300/300/150 P/Y/R(?)


• Grievous Fighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R


• (Revised Greivous Fighter: 90k mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordance, 1.0 speed 275/275/175 P/Y/R)


• YT-1300: 150k Resources ~5m mass [SP: 0 Guns MP:+2] 2 missiles [Spdx 0.8 Acc 5 Dec 5 Pitch 50 Yaw 50 Roll 37.5]


• MT22 Krayt: 150k Resources ~210k mass [SP: 3 Guns MP:+1] 1 missile [Spdx 0.92 Acc 50? Dec 50? Pitch 100 Yaw 100 Roll 50]

Imperial:

• TIE-LD: 5k Resources ~12k mass [SP: 1 Gun] 0 missile [Spdx ?? Acc 50 Dec 50 Pitch 600 Yaw 600 Roll 300]


• TIE-F: 15k Resources ~20k mass [SP: 1 Gun] 1 missile [Spdx 0.98 Acc 40 Dec 50 Pitch 500 Yaw 500 Roll 250]


• TIE/IN: 30k Resources ~40k mass [SP: 1 Guns] 1 missile [Spdx 0.97 Acc 40 Dec 60 Pitch 300 Yaw 300 Roll 200]


• TIE-Bomber: 60k Resources ~190k mass [SP: 2 Guns] 2 missiles [Spdx 0.85 Acc 10 Dec 15 Pitch 50 Yaw 50 Roll 25]


• TIE-In: 60k Resources ~50k mass [SP: 1 Gun] 1 missile [Spdx 1.0 Acc 40 Dec 60 Pitch 300 Yaw 300 Roll 150]


• TIE-Adv: 80k Resources ~65k mass [SP: 2 Guns] 1 missile [Spdx 1.0 Acc 40 Dec 60 Pitch 300 Yaw 300 Roll 150]


• Heavy TIE/Ln: 95K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R


• Revised Heavy TIE/LN: 80k mass, 1 SP Weapon, 1 Ordance, 1.0 speed, 300/300/50 Y/P/R


• TIE-Agg: 80k Resources ~120k mass [SP: 1 Gun MP:+1] 1 missile [Spdx 0.95 Acc 20 Dec 30 Pitch 150 Yaw 150 Roll 75]


• Imperial Guard Interceptor: 80K mass, 1 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, 1.0 speed, 400/400/200 P/Y/R(?)


• Jedi Starfighter: 90K mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordnance, .95 speed, 600/600/300 P/Y/R


• (Revised Jedi Star Fighter: 90k mass, 2 SP weapon, 1 ordance, 1.0 speed 275/275/175 P/Y/R)


• TIE-Opp: 150k Resources ~170k mass [SP: 2 Guns] 3 missiles [Spdx 0.9 Acc 35 Dec 35 Pitch 100 Yaw 100 Roll 50]


• TIE-Dec: 150k Resources ~5m mass [SP: 0 Guns MP:+2] 3 missiles[Spdx ?? Acc 5 Dec 5 Pitch 50 Yaw 50 Roll 37.5]

Message Edited by Vegitaa on 05-09-2005 10:02 PM

but hey.. before we go "fixing" ships, lets "fix" the crazy AI in kassyk, 90 degree warp turns = frustrated Vegitaa (victorious) but frustrated!