Pilot Archive
Thread: New Ship Stats
Vegitaa wrote:
Honestly, the Hvy TIE/LN is better than the JSF. The Hvy Z95 is better than the JSF, all craftable and can be used by non-ROTW enabled players.
Composite in space is what we already had. Every Rebel flew an AWing in DS with EOL4, WOL3, ReactOL4, etc....
Every Imp flew either an Oppresor or Intercepter, both of which were overclassed by the AWing. I didn't hear Rebels screaming NERF then. Point is, you can still fly Iconic ships and they're still just as useful. I used to take out AWings in my FireSpray, sure I was outturned but I could manage. Why is it that these new ships are so bad?
With 6 of them 3 iconic in our timeline ships and 3 reward vessels... more variaty is good, we definately agree there. No one having an "I Win" button, we agree there. But personally, I think if I felt like I was being killed "unfairly" by someone in a JSF, I'd just go get myself a Hvy Z95 and own them with it. Or the new XWing (not sure on it's stats though).
I've been here since launch, this much I have learned... when the Dev's NERF something, it isn't in "balance" they NERF it to DEATH! Thus making it useless. I don't want to see my new pretty ships (or your new pretty ships) end up like that.
I KNOW we already have composite in space, I've been arguing about that since JTL beta. In fact, one of my main points in one of the later focus threads was just that: Ship JTL in this shape, and we will have a "composite in space" situation; everyone will fly the smallest, most maneuverable ship of their faction. There is too little difference in the strength of a heavier ship compared to an ultra light one.
But, the fact that we have this situation is not reason enough to make things even worse. With the "Heavy-but-somehow-ultra-maneuverable-versions-of-older-ships", we're in a situation where the rest of the ships are completely pointless and all data concerning them might as well be completely purged from all SWG databases. After all, what's the point of these ships anyway?
And again, I have highlighted the biggest problem in yellow. Obviously, the SWG developers are completely clueless on things like this. They have proven that time and time again. Make something "uber", more "powerful" than "regular" stuff, and people WILL automatically move towards using them. They have no choice, they have to do the "flavor of the month" thing. It's ok to do it by mistake, if you fix it quickly. Do it by purpose, then please: Don't ever design anything that needs balance ever again.
Oh, as to the point of the existing "older" ships. I still use the one's I was using 3 weeks ago. Why use them.. because they're cool! My FireSpray still has way better components than my JSF. My advanced has better stuff than my RG TIE, and My Deci is still loaded and ready to bear (even though the Y8 would make a better gunship)
For that matter, before ROTW the only reason most people used lower cert ships was to level then they got sold or stored. I was still flying my TIE-IN after my fourth Ace. I just don't think the new ships are so game-breaking as many people think. Just my opinion though.
The Vaksai has ONE weapon slot????
Sorry, that is useless, I'll take my Krayt over the Vaksai any day. Guess I'll stop working the quest now.
SpinningCloud wrote:
The Vaksai has ONE weapon slot????
Sorry, that is useless, I'll take my Krayt over the Vaksai any day. Guess I'll stop working the quest now.
Y'know, didn't pick up on that till you pointed it out, Kinda sucks.. Royal Guard TIE only has one too if that makes you feel any better...
Vegitaa wrote:
Something to consider...
Lets say you get your way. They NERF these ships. How do you propose they do that? Better than an AWing? Worse than an AWing?
Ok, that goes through.. whatever you're thinking gets added. Now what. Do we NERF the AWing now? Or the Oppressor? Why not? We wouldn't want to have 4 ships at the top. You see my point. I'm not argueing just to argue (btw.. good discussion man! Love how pilots can discuss wthout flaming!)
So what do you actually propose and where does the NERFing stop? Who gets the #1 be all end all of PvP? Because thats the situation. Should all three factions have 1 top ship with the same stats across the board making it "fair"? or should it be Rebels get fastest, Imps get most maunuevorable, and Nuetrals get the shaft?
How do you propose this magic NERF come out in the end? Because I tell you this, leave it to the Dev's and JTL will be completely useless.
/bowrespectfully
That's simple enough, bring the ships in line with the current ships. There should be a reason for people to fly each ship, but unfortunately that's not thecase for PvP currently. But these ships are also way out of line for the PvE game, and I suggest that they use that as a base for their nerf. Quite simply: With these new ships, there is absolutely no reason ever to fly anything else than them in PvE either, whereas in the current PvE game you might do alot better with a B-wing, X-wing or Y-wing when it comes to taking on bigger stuff. For instance, I could most certainly solo a Corvette or Star Destroyer much quicker in my B-wing rather than my A-wing, not that I should be able to solo these ships, but... You get the idea. With the new ships, they are really all you need. High mass, handles better than the A-wing, more slots for weapons... Whatever would you need?
A simple first step would be to just bring the Y/P/R in line with the fastest of the old ships (A-wings, TIE-Advanceds, TIE-Ints, etc) and lower the mass some on the uber-small ships. This will go a long way towards ensuring that there is at least a reason to fly the older ships. As for the "heavy mass" versions, that's really a no brainer: They should for the most part handle worse than their smaller counter parts, they are after all "heavy mass" versions.
As for JTL being useless. I would argue that it already is, but... That's what you get when you ship an expansion with no high-endcontent at all and too soon. (And here I thought JTL beta was cut short, did SOE ever surprise me with the length of the RotW beta... At least all the RotW bugs doesn't surprise me). Most everyone I've seen in space since the initial "craze" around the JTL release wore off until RotW was released has been a few brave souls who just love flyin' (probably most everyone in this forum fits in on that description), barely any shipwrights are active, and Deep Space is for the most part completely dead. I'd say that JTL has always been pretty useless. 
All this reminds me of is when the Planetside developers added Big F-something Robots to Planetside. (Yeah, they were technically called BattleFrame Robotics, but we all know what BFR really stands for. 
)
Message Edited by Vicotnik on 05-09-2005 10:28 PM
Vicotnik wrote:
As for JTL being useless. I would argue that it already is, but... That's what you get when you ship an expansion with no high-endcontent at all and too soon. (And here I thought JTL beta was cut short, did SOE ever surprise me with the length of the RotW beta... At least all the RotW bugs doesn't surprise me). Most everyone I've seen in space since the initial "craze" around the JTL release wore off until RotW was released has been a few brave souls who just love flyin' (probably most everyone in this forum fits in on that description), barely any shipwrights are active, and Deep Space is for the most part completely dead. I'd say that JTL has always been pretty useless.
Ihear ya man. Personally I come from that Online WW2 Flight Sim crowd. The very best online flight sim game I ever played was Aces High, just really kewl in that there was no such things as NPC's and all stats are actual. Now thats easier when you have real world planes to work with of course.
But, in terms of wether to NERF or not.. I just don't trust the Dev's to do it right. Beta3 rushed.. plenty of bugs, JTL Beta, rushed even more bugs.. Alpha tester for CU, never happened... CU Open Beta/ROTW Beta, rushed.. more bugs than ever before. I rather see things in JTL stay as they are than trust the Dev's to fix it.
Sure, things need fixing, on this we definately agree. Personally, until I see more than 2 Rebels in Deep Space at a time, I can't imagine PvP getting fixed. Viduus posted a whole bug thing on this awhile ago (has talked my ears off in voicechat about it too) I honestly think, fixing the droid programs to work as intended would do a lot in bringing things to where they need to be. Fix that first, then take a look at ship stats. Take a look at how damage is getting applied in PvP as well.
PvE, well.. I'm sure you've seen the Mexican Jumping beans up in Kassyk space. They need to fix the rubberbanding and wackiness there too. I should not be able to solo the Rebel Station in Deep Space, Rebels should not be able to solo a Star Destroyer... but that started happening on like the second day JTL went live. So I agree with you, at least in spirit.
Just the thought of the Dev's NERFing the only part of the game I enjoy now makes me feel sick (JTL not just the new ships.)
I will continue flying my top 3 ships from before ROTW and will of course add my 3 new "look at how pretty" ships. But honestly, I have always switched ships alot because I love setting them up and I have a real thing for flying what fits my roleplay at the time.
Hehehe.. I currently am contracting my self out to mine roids to craft these ships. I want the TIE/LN more than the Jedi Starfighter actually...
CommTampers wrote:
The high mass varients of trainer shipsare the one thing that shipwrights can capitalize in this game. All other new fighters are reward. I think everyone should buy these high mass varients and support their shipwrights in this time of crafter persecution. Regarding balance, the Z95 has a horribly wid spread. That is the counter-effect.
LOL! I played Planetside as well.. yeah, I can see the comparison. Although, they may dominate the battle these too can be taken down nicely.. (hehehe love my switchblade!)
Vicotnik wrote:
All this reminds me of is when the Planetside developers added Big F-something Robots to Planetside. (Yeah, they were technically called BattleFrame Robotics, but we all know what BFR really stands for.
Message Edited by Vicotnik on 05-09-2005 10:28 PM
Hey guys,
I might have missed this but can someone tell me what level pilot you have to be to fly the Heavy Tie\Ln? I'm not a Ace pilot yet (3322) and would like to get my hands on one.
Noobs can fly the heavy versions of the starters. Noobs can build them too.
I was quite pleased with how my heavy Z95 flew with my T3 post-nerf reward engine. It's like my A-wing, but with better guns. Any skepticism I had when the pictures were first released on an obsolete Friday feature are all gone. If only I could move the guns more toward the fusalage.
EDIT: It just occured to me that hit detection is probably on the server side. You know that "drunken bee" syndrom? Been seeing alot of that after ROTW release. Could it be server side hit detection is trying to keep track of too many things at once? Fast moving objects probably only makes it worse in a PvP scenario.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 05-09-2005 02:04 PM