Pilot Archive
Thread: Pondering a new implementation of E-pulse
thegame350 wrote:Hold on tomo. You have obviously never been a freelancer or you would know that when Epulse 3 is used it drains everything in the capacitor, and all shields. My shields are 2433/2433 right now not RE'd at a recharge rate of I think 11. My capacitor while overcharged fills to 1879. Shunting shields drains from the capacitor as well so if I do an Epulse 3 I have to wait until my capacitor fills before I can shunt them about full again.
I know it wipes out your cap energy, too--I was a freelancer the first couple months, and we had some pilots run some epulse tests once it started to become an issue on Starsider--but it's still far from instant death for the user if any of his enemies are left standing. I've experienced and seen plenty of pilots get their shields wiped out, then fly defensively until they've shunted them back and are good as new. I see and do that every time we have a battle. It's incredibly hard to hit some pilots when they're flying to hit you, let alone when they fly defensively; waiting an extra 10-15 seconds for your cap to recharge doesn't make that big a difference.
Epulsing does leave you naked for a brief window, and if you get hit in that window, you're toast. But given how well you can avoid fire in this game, getting tagged in that window is far from a sure thing.
AzidarNath wrote:I bet the player who killed the 4-6 PvPers was flying a Jedi Starfighter and even then I'd have a hard time believing the other 4-6 pilots were worth a damn.
First time I saw it happen was when it came down to Kitten in an A-Wing against 5-6 Interceptors and Advanceds, including myself, the Imperial commander Naithan, and my wingman Derker, among others; she killed us all in what was the most amazing flying I'd seen to that point. In another battle, Derker took his Advanced alone against an entire Rebel wing of about 10 and killed 7 of them before getted dusted. Still later, an A-Wing pilot named Vym was taking on the remnants of our fleet by her lonesome, and survived so long I was actually able to repair, reload all my droid commands, and fly back to the fight before we finally got her. The last time I saw it happen, I was in an Eta-2 against the remnants of the Rebel fleet, which was one or two Belbullabs and a few Eta-2s (I don't remember the exact numbers, as I was too crazy on adrenaline to do anything but react and shake a lot).
Each time, the pilots left against those solo artists were among the best on our server, battle-hardened PVPers who would be dangerous one-on-one, let alone in a pack. That they survived so long and in some cases won was part luck and part flying above even what they're normally capable of, but it was possible in the first place because JTL is a game that's founded on skill and luck. If you've got either on a given day, you can be effective in a fight; if you've got both, you can do extraordinary things, up to singlehandedly turning the tide of a battle.
Epulse negates both those elements, elements that are the core of this game. There's no way to know it's coming, no way to avoid it when it's used, and no way to survive it when it hits. It doesn't need to be removed completely, but for the good of the game, I do think it needs to be changed.
FeydmanKassan wrote:
I thought I was experiencing deja-vu when I read this thread. Didn't we go around and around with issue for NINE PAGES a week or two ago?? Personally, I think it would be more constructive to talk about ways to provide Freelancers with more PvP competitive ships.
Until we come to a consensus or epulse is changed, those against epulse will continue to bring it up in an effort to have it changed/rebalanced/removed from PvP. If it *is* altered, then there will be threads demanding it come back.
I agree 100% with Tomo. The problem is not only that Epulse is over powered (it was balanced for NPCs with massive shields and is now being applied to players) but it is out of the spirit of JTL. It's definetly true that fights between good PvPers can last a long time with only a handful of shots landing, increadibly low hit:shot ratio. Yet Epulse is 100% garunteed hit if you are anywhere near them.
Dragon942 wrote:
it was balanced for NPCs with massive shields and is now being applied to players
Paladon wrote:
Dragon942 wrote:
it was balanced for NPCs with massive shields and is now being applied to players
Yeah, sure, Considering how completely worthless Epulse is against NPC's.
....
And what, you think they balanced it for players? Try using it on lower level npcs. It can completely obliterate a whole swarm of tier 2s with the press of a button. But I guess it onlydamages tier 5s. Sorry its not an I Win Buttonfor every ship inPvE too.
Spacey wrote:
I like the idea about Epulse, in PVP, only doing Shield damage. It kind of makes sense, the shields absorb the EM pulse - and if the Epulse is bigger than your shields, go with some .1 - .3 efficiency... That would actually work I think.
That is a great idea. It sounds like a fair trade to lose your cap energy and pilot command to take down the shields of all the ships near you (especially if you have a wingmate or two). That would actually be a useful and balanced command for PvP, and it would be even better if they came up with similiar things for all factions.
) But yes, a charged ship, especially as big as the ships we get as privateer, would make jousting considerably more dangerous for anything at the end of my Vaksai 
A charge 1 min long. A 2187 spd ship. A barn sized weapon
Dragon942 wrote:
Paladon wrote:
Dragon942 wrote:
it was balanced for NPCs with massive shields and is now being applied to players
Yeah, sure, Considering how completely worthless Epulse is against NPC's.
....
And what, you think they balanced it for players? Try using it on lower level npcs. It can completely obliterate a whole swarm of tier 2s with the press of a button. But I guess it onlydamages tier 5s. Sorry its not an I Win Buttonfor every ship inPvE too.
Spacey wrote:
I like the idea about Epulse, in PVP, only doing Shield damage. It kind of makes sense, the shields absorb the EM pulse - and if the Epulse is bigger than your shields, go with some .1 - .3 efficiency... That would actually work I think.
That is a great idea. It sounds like a fair trade to lose your cap energy and pilot command to take down the shields of all the ships near you (especially if you have a wingmate or two). That would actually be a useful and balanced command for PvP, and it would be even better if they came up with similiar things for all factions.
Im sorry but that just cracked me up, asuming we're still talking about EP3 of course. Lol, your saying its balanced because an ace pilot can whipe out a bunch of TEIR 2s?!?! Im sorry but the new pilot prototype ship can do that same thing just a little slower. If you ever even bothered to try it, youd know its not even close to an i win button, its PATHETIC. A couple days ago i got into a jousting fight with a t5 awing in kessel. Was gettin tired of it so i did my little ep3 of the next pass hopin for a lucky hit, i knocked its shield down 13% at 98m. Im sorry but if you think thats to powerful for a high lv pilot, you obviously have been flyin some serious POS'. ATM Epulse in PVE is more of a "I Quit" button than a "I win or even feel like having a snowballs chance in hell" button.
I will admit however that shield shunt hasnt been all good, with that little safty net there Im not nearly as carful a pilot as i used to be when those shields goin down ment me dieing.
Message Edited by Rebelcapt on 10-04-2005 11:59 PM
Rebelcapt wrote:
Also i read earlier that tomo said how easy it was to dodge fire in the game. I would like to know what ship hes using that makes it so. The only ship iv ever dodged fire in besides my JSF and grevious fighters is my vaksai with a 117.3 engine running EO4. My krayt takes a hit every time no matter how fell i fly.
TomoRainer wrote:
The fact you hit so rarely in space PVP is integral to why I feel epulse is out of place in JTL. A fight between two skilled pilots can last five, ten, fifteen minutes, with each landing only a handful of shots in all that time. I've seen single pilots last for five minutes against 4-6 hardened PVPers at once--and kill them all.
That epulse can wipe you out in a single hit, without the chance of a counter, without even placing the user at significant risk--yes, draining all your shields is dangerous, but far from a sure death when you're able to shunt them back before any opponents who've survived are able to land a hit on you--is so contrary to the twitch-based system it's almost more puzzling than frustrating.
In my mind, the process of epulsing someone needs to be brought in line with that ideology--to a skill that, much like the PVP system itself, can be nasty, brutish, and short, but can also be avoided or weathered by a good pilot in a good ship.
Exactly how I feel. My suggestion though was made frankly because I've given up arguing against it. I just don't like the skill because well, you pretty much summed it up. However, I appreciate that my oppinion is well..just my oppinion. Personally, I just don't see the point of it. I think in fact, I like Asthrael's idea of having epulse where the Epulser's ship chassis is 'charged' and they have to ram their opponent to cause damage best.
As for 'moving out of range' with my warning idea, I know that it still gives epulsers a big advantage but even someone with the fastest crafted engine is going to have trouble keeping up with a slower but higher r,p,y engine if that pilot is flying off at tangents etc as the crafted engine epulser will have to turn to keep up etc. Still, I guess that wouldn't be too hard to achieve.
Philosophically speaking, I always thought if epulse had never existed, it isn't like people would be asking for an 'I win' button command such as epulse would they for pvp? People would just fly normally and those who currently depend on epulse would either just fly normally or give up. I know that isn't the case, but if you look at it from that point of view, I think it is easier to understand why really it has no place here.
Well on my new alt side project, I went Freelance and took out a Kimogila for the first time last night. I was duly offended by it's obesity. That ship seriously needs to be on a diet. At 108 k mass too I was thinking "Well I guess it was designed by Hutts". Thing is, it handles pretty darn nicely for a ship so horrifyingly fat and ugly. Crikey. Its just a aesthetical nightmare for me having to fly a fat slow and yucky ship but...I'm becoming attatched to it. It is rather worrying. The fact that I had to zoom out to the full range on the starship 3rd person zoom multiplier means little to me now. Still, I prefer my A-wing by far. I guess now I just have a true idea of how badly off Freelancers are for skinny ships. However, the Heavy Syck I notice, though, too is rather large, it's actual hitbox is rather small, comparable to that of an A-wing. (Try it, go group an A-wing and a Syck together. I was shocked).
Oh and Ashtirael, I think it was your idea but I kind of liked it too.
Message Edited by Ralen-Sharr on 10-05-2005 09:40 AM
So let's make it clear, I would like to see pretty much every freelance ship made smaller. I'd have to take a close look at the Dunelizard, Vaksai, and Kihraxz, but I'd wager you could cut every freelance ship's dimensions about in half and not see anything unbalanced.
In that light, maybe it's unfair to look at epulse and the ability to dodge shots from the perspective of an Interceptor or A-Wing pilot, who do have a minimal ship profile that can evade the vast majority of fire. However, given the system we've got now, where freelancers can easily get a B-22 or Eta-2, profile and the ability to dodge is, for those ships, equal among the factions.
Having larger ships is a disadvantage, granted. But if you're not willing to use the smaller-profile ships because they feel like cheating, it seems especially odd to use the overpowered nature of epulse in order to make up for it.
Well i can't but say one thing - how about when you meet freelance in jsf and he is using epulse ....? I met one such guy and it really would help me if at least there was some system message (even after my ship was destroyed - something like your system failed due to electronic pulse or something) because at least i'd know whats going on. Because in this condition fighting with jsf pilot using epulse... it is really a bit too strong :-()