Pilot Archive
Thread: PVP In Space a Joke
ewano
Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:21 pm
#27
I have tried PvPon the groundwith my friends. I had aT21 with the best slice and armor andpower upsI could get. I have to shoot enemy's dozens of times before I can ever get though there armor. Then after I get through thierarmor I have to chew thierblock then get to thier buffs i use my 630 damageT21 on thierarmor.overcharge on thierHAM itself and still takes a while to get to the HAM down.
PvP friend uses average weapons.he's a 1111 rifle man and uses a laser rifle
seems complete logic to me?? why would it be differend in space?
JadenStriker
Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:34 pm
#28
Hum, intresting, either your experanced lag and saw only 4 shots out of 9 or 10, or the damage done was faulty. I don't mined PvE having enemies with much stronger shielding, cause Dookay is right about A.I., with out the extra power they are dead. PvP wise, the math should add up right though. A 435 weapons should have to take 3 hits to kill a 1k shield. A 1 shot killed shield by such a weapon against such a shield is BS and can only be, lag, bug, cheat, or bad programmed math.
I hope your issue was lag, but for those who started talking smack about him not knowing PvP, your on my "cheaters/bug exploiters" watch list. The math is correct, so unless Fyreblay28's info is inaccurate, one of the other 4 stated above occured and needs to be countered in some way. We all know lag can be countered by a faster or more stable connection, and and the rest can be patched against. And yes skill matters, but the componat math should not be flawed. No it should not be like ground PvP but no a 435 weapon should not take out a 1k shield either. Besides, a skilled pilot with a lesser equpment can kill a lesser skilled person with greater power, espcially when you take manuvirability into account. The Z-95 can turn much better then a Y-Wing, run circles possibly pending skill gap.
Zealot-ICE
Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:20 pm
#29
Kierra87 wrote:
did you do much dmg with tk 2222 in pvp?
no?
what makes you think you should be able to with pilot
please wait at least a month, get some skills and test it out properlly before you complain its totally rubbish
Message Edited by Kierra87 on 11-04-2004 03:10 PM
Amen
Zealot-ICE
Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:30 pm
#30
Okram2k wrote:
have you guys ever played a flight game where you shoot each other? The point is to dodge, get behind, and kill. Not to rely on armor and and shields to keep you alive. You have to outmanuver your opponent, then kill them. Agility and speed will out weight fire power any day when you are dog fighting with a real opponent.
Most dog fights are ended as soon as somebody gets behind someone else, they're dead. Unless you can react fast enough to manuver out from their fire and escape their volley, game over man, game over.
So go ahead, complaing about pvp not being able to take more then a couple hits, you're not supposedto, you're in a fighter not a cruiser, now get over it and learn how to dodge.
I agree with this wholeheartily....In SWG we are so used to being able to fight toe to toe.If you use the same tactics in space and don't adapt to JTL you won't have any fun and make a bogus thread of how pvp sucks in JTL. So ADAPT or DIE!!!
tibarraji
Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:56 am
#31
ok... i agree that things are a little srewy here. however, there are still issues with the balance. now.. im not screaming expolit or bug like others are. but i do think that things are a bit out of whack. i have run a few tests... the weapons boost from a TIE is able to cut through a 2600 lvl 8 shield with our emergency shield runnin, and a lvl 8 1500 hp armor and destory, in less than 4 shots. the weapons used in theis were lvl 5 blaters with 800 hp dmg x2. granted, the TIE loses his shields while doing this... however, ther x-wing loses his weapons. doesnt really add up to being all that fair.
i htnk the 75% reduction is a bit much. i agree that the rush from the combat is fun.. and a very big part of it. but to be honest.. i dont get to feel that rush... since im dead so quickly... basically... i dont even get to hear the bullet that kills me.
the only solution i can think of is that if the imps are getting the ability to increase their weapon power, as a special, than it would be nice if the rebels were given an adequate way to protect themselves from it... using a special. i have not tried this yet using our droid shield realignemnt stuff, yet, and since bria went down on me b4 i could finish testing, i will have to wait. but i will do it as soon as possible... and add my results there, as well as better document everything involved.
i also agree that in twitch dogfighting, it is all about who can fly better... so i guess..we just need to practice more.
my biggest overall complaint is with the corvette part of master. i had no problems being forced into PvP during the 30 kills part... it added ALOT to the overall quest. but i think the corvette should be moved out of kessel
NoHandleWanted
Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:37 am
#32
Hey, PvP is cool and all for those who enjoy it, and I am even willing to tolerate it for the Master Box. Part of the game and all.
The only beef I have is getting killed so fast I do not have time to realize I am being attacked. What is the point of having shields and armor if a guy can cut through them in one or two shots? Even those tier 5 Imp ships with turrets that never miss take a fewbefore my armor is boiling away, lol. I am 4/4/4/4 Rebel, and my X-Wing is a joke in PvP. While I am busy targeting the nearest bad guy, some AI intercepter or something, taking ten shots to take him down, a player slips in behind me and dusts me before I even know what is up.
I am game for the challenge, but there is no challenge here, other than to be the first to detect the other player. Basically, player enemies have the firepower of ten computer enemies, so first player to get the shot off wins. More or less.
No real skill there, other than spotting the player-controlled fighter first. Shrug.
I just have two suggestions for PvP: One, a 60-second anti-griefing timer upon entering a PvP zone. Very annoying having to spend the next ten minutes patching my ship up and flying back into the suicidal grief spot and having to repeat as desired, lol. 
Two, a damage reduction in PvP. 75% is too LITTLE at the rate things are going now, lol. (But fair enough.) Think of it: Tier 5 guys take about 6 shots to get through my shields, another four or five for armor.I have taken two shots and survived systems damage, but my poor shiphad seen better days at that point, lol.
Conversely, comparably-equipped players completely dust me in two hits--if that many. So, I can survive about 13 PvE tier 5 hits, maybe2 player hits. That is completely out of whack and entirely unplayable.
Well, it would be playable if we did not pretend the ships had shields and armor. My tactic has always been not to mind a few hits to the shields--they will recharge, no big deal. If PvP is supposed to be instant-death, then, why bother giving us shields and armor, lol? First on the target wins! Again, little-to-no skill involved here.
That is all: I just want PvP to be playable, not instant-death, as it definitely appears to be. If a guy slips on my six and hits me five times and I cannot shake him, yeah, I deserve to die. If a guy targets me first and hits me once and I die, well, that at least follows the movies, lol.
WarNerve5776
Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:07 am
#33
Okram2k wrote:
have you guys ever played a flight game where you shoot each other? The point is to dodge, get behind, and kill. Not to rely on armor and and shields to keep you alive. You have to outmanuver your opponent, then kill them. Agility and speed will out weight fire power any day when you are dog fighting with a real opponent.
Most dog fights are ended as soon as somebody gets behind someone else, they're dead. Unless you can react fast enough to manuver out from their fire and escape their volley, game over man, game over.
So go ahead, complaing about pvp not being able to take more then a couple hits, you're not supposedto, you're in a fighter not a cruiser, now get over it and learn how to dodge.
Exactly.
Sc0rPs
Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:11 am
#34
Basically what your saying is as a novice marksman you should able to defeat a master pistoleer?
NoHandleWanted
Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:14 am
#35
Okram2k wrote:
have you guys ever played a flight game where you shoot each other? The point is to dodge, get behind, and kill. Not to rely on armor and and shields to keep you alive. You have to outmanuver your opponent, then kill them. Agility and speed will out weight fire power any day when you are dog fighting with a real opponent.
Most dog fights are ended as soon as somebody gets behind someone else, they're dead. Unless you can react fast enough to manuver out from their fire and escape their volley, game over man, game over.
So go ahead, complaing about pvp not being able to take more then a couple hits, you're not supposedto, you're in a fighter not a cruiser, now get over it and learn how to dodge.
Back to me:
Great, sounds good. Let me take out computer fighters in one or two hits, as well. And let them do the same to me, of course. Even it all out for fairness. Would make "jousting" a whole new game, that is for certain, lol.
NoHandleWanted
Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:07 am
#36
Pondering further on this line of thought, is all: If we are going to turn PvP into a "2 hits, you are dead" kind of thing, I am ditching my shields, armor, and interfacefor better weapons, engines, capacitors, and boosters--no sense keeping useless mass. As such, would I get a bonus in maneuverability if I choose to reduce the mass I use? If I only use 75% of my maximum mass, after all, should I not get some bonus to maneuverability for my craft being lighter? IF the game is going to be based on maneuvering and dodgingand not on being able to absorb a few hits with the shields and armor, as the "flight game" argument suggests,I mean.
Basically, it seems to me armor and shields are in the game for a reason. As such, make them worth the investment inmass and reactor power.
JadenStriker
Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:47 am
#37
PvP Game play that is suppost to be based on Flight sime skill and skillful use of componants, yet it sounds like neither exist in PvP.
Have any of you played MechWarroirs 4? I'm guessing a lot of the people arguing flight sims as a comparisan for JTL have not. That game is based on skillful use of both fighting technique and equipement.
People stop being so bias towards either all flight sim like or all equipment like.
There is very little skill in getting behind a player and killing the person in only a few hits just like there is very little skill in using only the best equipment and letting the computer calculate your chances while spamming a specail attack command. JTL needs to be more like MW4, a PLAYABLE competition of skillful fighting abilityAND skillfuluse of equipment.
Cyzada
Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:21 am
#39
problem is that this is a game, how would you like it if a basketball match ended when 1 team got 5 points. offcourse skill matters but as the game is atm its rather the skill of luck.
Its better to take 100 encounters and meassure who gets most hits, than to see who gets the first hit because of factors like luck of angle. If you still win after 100 ship vs. ship encounter then its skill, andnot luck as it is now*.
Yes to compare you can take sports where 1 perfect hit gives you the win, but in a game like jtl where lagg, limitations of control and other factors interfere this system dont work.
*To turn around my argumentation games likecs where a skilled ak-47 user can take out a opponent in one hit, then that is whatJTL pvp is now, and for 6-7 years this system have been used in cs with succes, so why not in swg?. - But i dont think it will work in jtl because the system is totally different in many aspects making them hard to compare.
I have no conclusion just giving2 possible outcomes of jtl. Leaving the question open "what does the majority prefere?".
(sorry for gramatical errors english is not my primary language, *cough not that my primary would have less errors) 