Pilot Archive
Thread: Suggestions for improving the fun of space PvP
i would say out of maybe 80+ fights more thanhalf have gone into a "dogfight" if you pardon the often abused expression. theremainderare charges won by a good shot (read: badly timed juke on someone's part) and the occasional ambush.
it's a button on your joystick, a blip on your radar, sounds around you and now the highly visible enemy box. if surprises are the majority of your pvp experience, fix it. i posted on page one a few ways to do that and if you query'd the board you'd probably get a ton more replies. hell, look at starsider. go query that server board and ask how many people hate the speed of space PVP pertaining to fighter battles.
now ask them how to make improvments to PVP onyourown server and i bet you get many more intelligent replies.
quadpers0n wrote:it takes less than 1 minute. hyperspace from station to base and enter the zone, during the meantime you can run 2 droid progs irregardless of the quality of your DI. if you aren't a "noob" (your words) you are embellishing for effect. saying PVP is too fast is no different. it's not too fast. inexperience makes it too fast. i'm not saying you are a noob, i'm saying your perspective would change with more experience.
It took me a little more than three minutes to start from Dant station, hit Alliance 2 to go overt and then to deep space when I timed it tonight. In that time I was able to get 2 overloads done and then hit the third when I got into DS(it takes about 75 seconds to get one overload completed with ~15 delay DI, if you've got one). Unless your opponent is waiting for you to re-spawn right next to the point of entry into the zone, it's going to take more time to re-acquire the target. So he's not really embellishing the point to say it takes 5 minutes to go from blown up to back in the action.
A point to be made here is, how are these pilots who are fresh to space PVP going to get 'more experience' if their encounters are always so short?
To be fair, this point has been beaten to death, and I really like DS PVP the way things are now. However I do find it amusing that you guys grabbed onto the first point and hit it with so much vitriol. And considering how often it comes up, I'm also suprised you guys don't think it has some popular support. And I see no point in going overt in sectors other than DS. I know folks aren't masters who head to Kessel overt to faction farm, but they are generally there because a)they aren't masters, b)they're ground rebels/space freelancers or c)know that there are less people overt in Kessel, and have a smaller likelyhood of running into PvP they don't really want. But my anecdotal evidence here is about as important as all the others.
I would like to see some more debate on some of his points:
Problem: Downtime to get back in the action is long.
Problem: Nobody wants to duel or PvP in normal sectors, due to decay.
Problem: No purpose for the "tuning" programs
Problem: No incentive to PvP -- nothing to show for it
And to be honest, I like the core idea behind the different suggestions made:
Core Idea: Reduce the downtime for getting into PvP, and back into it after a death. Decrease or eliminate the penalties for losing. Enable consequence-free PvP in all sectors. Make having a bigger gun and heavier armor count for something.
With or without the instant overloads idea, I could really get behind the 'respawn at the factional station when blown up in DS' idea. Cuts down one leg of the trip back to DS.
*edit cause it looked really awful
Message Edited by Kharn on 06-21-2005 02:11 AM
Malcolm_CaKre wrote:
Problem: No purpose for the "tuning" programs
Idea: Change Tuning programs to instead perform slow, decayless, repairs over time to the affected components. If DI is shot off, all tuning benefits disappear.
Idea: If component decay is otherwise removed, keep decay on overload damage, unless an equal-or-better tuning program is also present.
Idea: Change Tuning to not reduce component effectiveness, and allow it to be run simultaneously with overload to mitigate increased power draw (at the cost of hogging up lots of droid memory, etc).
How about revise both the tuning and overload programs so both are worth while depending on the situation, for example:
Engine Overload: Boosts Speed at the cost of reactor drain. Does not increase YPR.
Engine Tuning: Boosts YPR at the cost of reactor drain. Does not increase Speed
Weapon Overload: No Change (besides fixing WO3)
Weapon Tuning: Increase Refire Rate, at the cost of reactor drain. Does not affect weapon damage or capacitor drain.
Weapon Capacitor Overload: Increases Capacitor Energy, at the cost of reactor drain. Does not affect recharge rate.
Weapon Capacitor Tuning: Increases recharge rate, at the cost of reactor drain. Does not affect capacitor energy.
You sway space PvP in ANY WAY to the "easy" side of the fence, and you WILL kill it. It's that tenuous. And I fear that at the root of this is just a hidden desire to make DS easier to farm for tens of thousands of faction points, not really a true desire to make PvP as a whole more "fun."
For as much time as I or any other well-versed pilot has spent on my ship, in every engagement, we only have about a 5-10% advantage (maybe 20% in a nugget vs. experienced rookie situation) over another human pilot that we're not going to catch an unlucky stray bolt.
5-10% advantage ain't much when the fight can be over in 10 seconds.
Kharn wrote:
It took me a little more than three minutes to start from Dant station, hit Alliance 2 to go overt and then to deep space when I timed it tonight. In that time I was able to get 2 overloads done and then hit the third when I got into DS(it takes about 75 seconds to get one overload completed with ~15 delay DI, if you've got one). Unless your opponent is waiting for you to re-spawn right next to the point of entry into the zone, it's going to take more time to re-acquire the target. So he's not really embellishing the point to say it takes 5 minutes to go from blown up to back in the action.
your first problem is you went overt. deep space is a PVP zone, you don't need to be overt. that just cut your trip time in half. your second problem is you may be going up against someone who wants to grind and not PVP. when i kill someone in DS the first thing I do is rush to 3km from the station. why? because i want to fight, not fly around looking. lastly, it should not take you that long to find your target in DS, fly from one base to another, chances are you'll see him. don't see him? well in what area of DS did you die last? avoid all of this by grinding your faction within 2-5km of the base, it's the most efficient way to do so anyway.
and we seized the OPs first point with such vitrol because it has the potential to be so game breaking. please, don't comment on what you think damage reduction will do until you have gone up and done the tests. if you think you can simply outfly someone with a better engine in 20 shot pvp, by all means post your experiment for all of us to see. FRAP it. prove me wrong. i know for a fact now than with low level guns, one on one, the difference between eo3 and eo4 is insurmountable.
if you had bothered to read the rest of the thread you'd know that people dissected his other points as well ascredited his valid ones.
TFA_Maverick wrote:
exactly... like I said, none have made it any closer. They die long before they reach the range of turn-fighting. As I said... quickdraw. Or in your book do I have to grant them that courtesy to consider myself "experienced?" One shot... gone. The end. All of them. There really aren't any happy embellishments to it... they reach gun range and die. I don't even use missiles... I like to be that sporting. Take that as you will...
But I've spoken my peace... hopefully the Devswill take a balance pass at space eventually. I recall they once catered to the cause of buffs and comp too... but we see where that era has happily gone.
your fights are short. you are "sporting" because you don't use missles. yet i don't see you slapping some lvl 3 guns on your ship and making PVP longer for yourself. why is that? i'll tell you why, because you don't want long PVP, you want your grind ship to be safe from surprises. real sporting.
if you want to be sporting why not go out for a month in bazaar equipment and a light fighter? use a lvl 3 gun. awww it'd impact your grinding wouldn't it? i wanted sport so i put a weak lvl 5 on my PVP ship for an entire month. you're just interested in smashing noobs it seems.
to read you write about balance is hilarious though. any person can kill any other person with any kind of equipment (to an extent) that is balance. heavy fighters can take light fighters, light fighters can take heavy fighters, etc. etc. that is balance. what you are asking for IS composite and buffs and you don't even realize it.
do the tests. grab two identical ships, have one person run eo4 and the other eo3 with lvl 3 guns. who wins? was it fun? there's your PVP.
Message Edited by quadpers0n on 06-21-2005 08:43 AM
No worries Alyx, I hear there's a brand new FS conversion thread you can post in too.
Alyxian wrote:
*gives up beating the dead horse on this and the other 100 threads like it*
Wrong. If I take out someone who is obviously new I give them tips and pointers and encourage them nicely to keep at it. Knowledge is free, and I don't have any trouble passing it out. A lot of pilots I know are the same. Any pilot starting PvP today has the benefit of all the posts on the subject, and some really first class teachers out there on the servers. If you think that would mean it takes them longer to learn, we disagree.
Kharn wrote:
>>>>>how are these pilots who are fresh to space PVP going to get 'more experience' if their encounters are always so short?
>>Same way the rest of us did.
The biggest problem with this is that when the rest of us were doing it, everyone was a noob. An expert going up against a green pilot is 9/10 going to wax them very quickly and that green pilot will probably stay green for a much longer time then you did.
he's right. if you go up and find someone better than you, and instantly give up, what the hellare you doing PVP'ing anyway? some kind of tourism?
i would relish the oppertunity to face pilots on another level than me and i would PVP against them every chance i had. they would probably get extremely tired of blowing me up.