Pilot Archive
Thread: Suggestions for improving the fun of space PvP
Rorenikibi wrote:
You say modifying PvP to take longer would result in extended slugging matches. You mean, like, well, maybe, PvE in space is? Damn, that might actually be entertaining to think combat with another player would have more to do with skill and endurance than whether I dropped my profession to go Imperial for a few hours.
No, it would not be like PvE. With my capacitor, and CtSS4 you would not kill me until I fell asleep. In *any* of the new ships, it would be even worse.
PvP Does take longer, I flew against a JSF in my RG Int the other day, it was one on one, and was at least a minute of blood pumping, adrenaline junkie, rush for me. My ships was outclassed, but managed to recover from a hit, fire two missiles, and finally get him in the crosshairs of the cert 10 cannon I strapped onto the RG Int. Yes I blew him up, and it was pretty much one shot since he recovered most shield from the missiles I sent hit way, but it was intense.
I use all my ships, I have 6 fighters I constantly rotate between for different things, and my usage of them is pretty equal, althought the TIE Advanced has not been used much lately. I try to PvP as much as I can, and yeah, I get oneshotted sometimes, or take a salvo of missiles from a couple ships and can't chaff enough before even getting in a return shot...sure, happens. Just means they are using tactics, and decent equipment, and above all, teamwork!
The ONLY grievances I have with PvP is the high rate of decay, and the overload downtime. Niether of those is enough to stop me.
It also speaks incredibly badly for the JSF pilot.
KaylBreinhar wrote:
The only way a Longprobe pilot could habitually down an overt in a JSF is by mounting a monster SW-crafted engine and booster and performing high-speed "drive bys."
It also speaks incredibly badly for the JSF pilot.
Well, it is again tactics. Despite what the poster thought, the longprobe pilot is an intelligent pilot using great tactics. He missiles them, and the JSF pilots, cocky, or just not that good, or too new to PvP, are not packing chaff. If anything, this proves there is balance, and that it is skill and intelligence.
The problem here is that too many people equate PvP to one-on-one. Try a big battle, you fight in a big battle, no one will ever die if it takes you 5-8 shots to kill them. Hell, no point packing chaff, no point in anything but the biggest, and most guns you can load, and a good shield. then pound and pound and pound...Ok, not so great players will die and kill each other, good pilots and great pilots....will go on and on in a draw, forever, because that slight mistake doesn't matter, your shields can take a hit or two, CtSS4 and you are good again, keep turning, yawn, keep turning, oooo! you get a shot or two on him!! Wooo! oh....CtSS4 and his shields are back up...yawn, turn...ugh.
Honestly, get a replaceable chassis, get replaceable components, get up there and practice! Figure out how to survive a head to head encounter, tactics to get on thier butt, tactics to survive multiple missiles, and how to get your ship to a point where *you* can do all this stuff. No load out in the current game is the *I win* loadout. This is not like the ground game, there is no magic macro for your class, no magic order to your hits, nothing like that. This is figuring it out, honing your tactics and skills and being skilled.
However, you will remember that ground PvP wasdiminished while gear PvP deaths caused decay, and picked back up after PvP decay was removed. I'll bet SOE could dig those stats up if they really wanted. I've no idea how the desire for longer-lasting PvP could be determined, except by either hosting a poll or counting the number of unique posters who support each option. All I know is what I observe, and what I hear from my Pilot peers. There are some folks that believe that ground combat should be more lightning-fast too, and they have some good points. What I am saying, is that we would probably get more people trying it for a first or second time if it was more similar to the PvE game, and if they could have enough time to learn what they were doing instead of just flying along and suddenly blowing up. Message Edited by GranitePhoenix on 06-20-2005 11:35 PM
On the subject of PvP damage reduction:
CTSS4 for the never ending battle. No one dies unless their AFK.
On, "Not everybody wants to be subject to PvP while gathering faction in space."
Tough. It's called risk vs reward. You can farm 15 FP per kill on the ground in complete saftey. in space the FP rewards are MUCH higher. There needs to be a risk involved. That said, if sony were to reduce FP rewards to be equivlant to the ground (or slighly less since mass slaugher is easier in space), then i have no problem with a combatant/ SF system in space like there is on the ground. Under current FP gains however, No way.
Alyxian wrote:
The problem here is that too many people equate PvP to one-on-one. Try a big battle, you fight in a big battle, no one will ever die if it takes you 5-8 shots to kill them. Hell, no point packing chaff, no point in anything but the biggest, and most guns you can load, and a good shield. then pound and pound and pound...Ok, not so great players will die and kill each other, good pilots and great pilots....will go on and on in a draw, forever, because that slight mistake doesn't matter, your shields can take a hit or two, CtSS4 and you are good again, keep turning, yawn, keep turning, oooo! you get a shot or two on him!! Wooo! oh....CtSS4 and his shields are back up...yawn, turn...ugh.
In XvT we had E/W/S energy management.
In JTL we have overloads.
Its different in that with XvT sure you could dump power back into your shield, but you had to reroute power from the engines or weapons to do it. You lost in speed or weapons, so You had a clear cut trade off. In JTL, the way overloads are, its like playing XvT with E/W/S ALL set to "recharge at maximum rate". Theres no trade off, that makes something like CTSS4 all that much more pronounced. An extra shot or two in XvT is alot different then JTL. Besides that, all ships in XvT were standardized. in JTL, each and every one is a custom job, which further brings JTL even further away from XvT as a point of comparision.
an excellent point about the standardized ships. damage reduction, btw, would be a great idea if we all had identical ships with identical equipment. there'd be parity there as well.
but when we have variables like we do in JTL damage reduction will not work.
you people aren't getting it. 1-2 shot PVP is here to stay vs light/heavy fighters for the duration of this game.
Message Edited by quadpers0n on 06-20-2005 11:16 PM
TFA_Maverick wrote:
Alyxian wrote:
The problem here is that too many people equate PvP to one-on-one. Try a big battle, you fight in a big battle, no one will ever die if it takes you 5-8 shots to kill them. Hell, no point packing chaff, no point in anything but the biggest, and most guns you can load, and a good shield. then pound and pound and pound...Ok, not so great players will die and kill each other, good pilots and great pilots....will go on and on in a draw, forever, because that slight mistake doesn't matter, your shields can take a hit or two, CtSS4 and you are good again, keep turning, yawn, keep turning, oooo! you get a shot or two on him!! Wooo! oh....CtSS4 and his shields are back up...yawn, turn...ugh.
This is obviously an example of a person who never played a real multiplayer Star Wars flight game. As a veteran of online X-Wing vs TIE Fighter (and all its ilk) since '97, a game where there is true space balance, an extra four or five shots to kill someone never resulted in a snoozefest... in 4v4 battles of mixed fighter classes, it only becomes that much more interesting and tactics-based. And yes, we had the granddaddy of CtSS4 at our disposal, that poured energy direct from weapons to shields or back again (repeatedly with no droid delay)... and even smart use of that can only buy you time to recover from a mistake, not immortality. The ability to endure a few hits to overcome an ambush or bad turn and still be able to turn the fight around if you are the more skilled pilot is part of the reason that game still has a strong following, even today. Even the weakest TIE Fighter, with no shields, could take a minimum of two direct hits... average fighters took four to six. That one extra hit meant the T/F pilot could wheel around to a sneak attack and possibly do something to win, if the better pilot. Skill is the talent to react and control a developing situation... the problem is, SWG space pvp does not develop, it ends as soon as it starts. By your own reckoning, a long duel lasted a minute... and that's probably the time to land a clean shot in a good dogfight, but things rarely progress to that point here. The difference in the killing is something like the difference between shootingdown TIE Bombers in the original X-Wingand shooting something in Galaga.
JTL is a quickdraw match... assuming both parties are actually aware of the other, it's a contest of who can line up a single shot the fastest and most accurately during initial approach. If one party is not immediately aware, you have an ambush death in one shot where the victim often doesn't even realize who or what killed him... Granted you should pay attention at all times if overt, but there is no skill or honor in that. I've been PvPing since JTL launched... since mastery, I've never had a victim take more than one shot no matter the tier of chassis. The one time I've died (which was in one of those ambush situations; never got the name) was also with one shot. I'm not arrogant to the point of thinking all those I've killed must be inferior... They were just slower to draw. Only one ever made it close enough for a turning fight, sadly, and it only happened because of a funny situation where we didn't realize each other's presence until passing each other in opposite directions.
There are many things that could be done to help balance PvP here, but it's foolhardy to think it can be done without some form of offensive or defensive rebalance to prevent one-hit kills. Obviously you're beyond listening to such an idea different from your own, so this is more to anyone else who joins the discussion. I find it funny though that many of the people who were the greatest at PvP pre-CU and claimed "skill" were first in line out the door when they lost their macros and super-equipment... I wonder if the same will happen with space?
But, if you do survive some space rebalance far down the line, or play any real SW fighter games... look me up. Always ready for a challenge of skill...
hahahahahahahahahaha
Xwing - plyed it
Tie fighter - played it
X-wing Vs Tie fighter - played it
Rogue squadron - played it
Aliance - played it
any other...probably played it
JTL, PvP all the time
Best know your audience before judgement
TFA_Maverick wrote:
Alyxian wrote:
The problem here is that too many people equate PvP to one-on-one. Try a big battle, you fight in a big battle, no one will ever die if it takes you 5-8 shots to kill them. Hell, no point packing chaff, no point in anything but the biggest, and most guns you can load, and a good shield. then pound and pound and pound...Ok, not so great players will die and kill each other, good pilots and great pilots....will go on and on in a draw, forever, because that slight mistake doesn't matter, your shields can take a hit or two, CtSS4 and you are good again, keep turning, yawn, keep turning, oooo! you get a shot or two on him!! Wooo! oh....CtSS4 and his shields are back up...yawn, turn...ugh.
JTL is a quickdraw match... assuming both parties are actually aware of the other, it's a contest of who can line up a single shot the fastest and most accurately during initial approach. If one party is not immediately aware, you have an ambush death in one shot where the victim often doesn't even realize who or what killed him... Granted you should pay attention at all times if overt, but there is no skill or honor in that. I've been PvPing since JTL launched... since mastery, I've never had a victim take more than one shot no matter the tier of chassis. The one time I've died (which was in one of those ambush situations; never got the name) was also with one shot. I'm not arrogant to the point of thinking all those I've killed must be inferior... They were just slower to draw. Only one ever made it close enough for a turning fight, sadly, and it only happened because of a funny situation where we didn't realize each other's presence until passing each other in opposite directions.
yet you claim to have PVP experience? i'm wondering why that is, since you admittedly havenext tonone.
Message Edited by quadpers0n on 06-20-2005 11:21 PM