Pilot Archive
Thread: ROTW ships ruining space
I don't have anything specific to add just yet, but it's just always interesting to discuss how you think a change is going to play out in the game, then see how it actually affects things.
TomoRainer wrote:
We just had an absurdly good dogfight. Lots of Eta-2s and Belbullabs on both sides, a few of the new light heavies, even one ARC. Unfortunately, Eta-2s and Belbullabs had replaced almost every TIE on the Imperial side, but there were still plenty of A-Wings out there. Lots of Xs, too.
I don't have anything specific to add just yet, but it's just always interesting to discuss how you think a change is going to play out in the game, then see how it actually affects things.
For the record, you and Naithan both had a huge edge in surviving all the missiles I kept chucking at you--the stupid reloads from the replenishment ship aren't very good. They hit for less damage than my cannons. 
Anyways, it was an interesting fight, and ended up basically a draw. I only saw three or four non-RotW ships on the Imp side (a couple TIE Oppressors and Advanced, an Interceptor or two, a Firespray I blew up at least twice)...mostly Jedi Interceptors, Red Guard (?) Interceptors, and heavy-mass variants. The Rebel side had a much larger component of older JtL ships--standard X-wings and A-wings, and even one Nova Courier which got vaped immediately after declaring.
CommTampers wrote:
There are solutions other than nerfing the current ships. Why not advance the "prototype" ships, like the Awing and Tie Advanced?
Because we all know that the real objection here has nothing to do with any kind of imbalance whatsoever...
Halyn wrote:
For the record, you and Naithan both had a huge edge in surviving all the missiles I kept chucking at you--the stupid reloads from the replenishment ship aren't very good. They hit for less damage than my cannons.
Pssht, we don't even get to reload, so in this case it's literally better than nothing. I was wondering how I was soaking so many missile hits though, lol.
Best moment of the battle for me: when me and Jo'shua lined up on each other from about 1km out and headed towards each other at max speed. He totally raked me with his wall of ionic pulse weapons, while my wimpy level 6 and 5 guns actually punched through to his armor. It's hard to describe, but the way we just charged each other like two dumb bulls just cracked me up; not only did it make me realize how cocky I'd gotten in that one, but the crazy thing was this wasn't at the start of an engagement, it was after there'd already been a serious scrum. We just sort of perked up out of nowhere and bounced off each other. After a moment like that, it almost made me feel bad to blast him into the vacuum.
During that same fight in Kettemoor over Kashyyyk, a fully outfitted Decimator with a full array of POB components made by a very talented Master Shipwright was nuked in four shots.
He had time to see the red dot, call out "incoming" to his gunners, then BOOOM!!
Though I wouldnt mind leaving the stats the way they are and release new POB ships with stronger stats instead (still waiting and dreaming of commanding and walking around in a real corvette!).
TomoRainer wrote:
Halyn wrote:
For the record, you and Naithan both had a huge edge in surviving all the missiles I kept chucking at you--the stupid reloads from the replenishment ship aren't very good. They hit for less damage than my cannons.
Pssht, we don't even get to reload, so in this case it's literally better than nothing. I was wondering how I was soaking so many missile hits though, lol.
I think you're better off without the reloads, to be honest. If I had been using the crafted missiles I had left over from last week that Li gave me, I could've at least taken down a couple of Imp fighters with them...I never got more than about thirty percent shields peeled off any enemy ship with those blasted reload IR2s. If I hadn't been trying so hard for a lock with those, I might have picked up one or two more early kills with lasers.
Though to be perfectly honest, I also used a *lot* of chaff and soaked up a few missiles myself.
TomoRainer wrote:
Best moment of the battle for me: when me and Jo'shua lined up on each other from about 1km out and headed towards each other at max speed. He totally raked me with his wall of ionic pulse weapons, while my wimpy level 6 and 5 guns actually punched through to his armor. It's hard to describe, but the way we just charged each other like two dumb bulls just cracked me up; not only did it make me realize how cocky I'd gotten in that one, but the crazy thing was this wasn't at the start of an engagement, it was after there'd already been a serious scrum. We just sort of perked up out of nowhere and bounced off each other. After a moment like that, it almost made me feel bad to blast him into the vacuum.
My best moment was spinning and maneuvering like crazy around the Rebel space station when there were only a couple of us Rebel pilots left against (I think) most of the Imperial fighter group. I got six kills before someone (I don't know who, but I know it wasn't a cheap tactic) got me. The best individual kill was diving on a Firespray, because I'm 90% certain that was supposed to be a trapthat I managed toslip through.
For any of you interested, I wasone of twoRebels flying an Actis. I think the only Rebel that had a longer survival against massive numbers was Kitten and her A-wing, though Pro and his Grevious *did* last quite a while, too.
Landorin wrote:
That's another aspect, besides the missing pvp damage reduction, POB ships should get beefed up, similar to an NPC gunboat maybe (or tougher), which means stronger shields and armor as well as stronger guns. They wouldnt be uber (because the gunners still dont hit as good as the npc turrets) but would last longer or maybe even stand a chance (in comparison to now). An NPC gun takes a lot longer until its shields and armor fail (tier 5), certain (or all?) POB ships should be similar.
Though I wouldnt mind leaving the stats the way they are and release new POB ships with stronger stats instead (still waiting and dreaming of commanding and walking around in a real corvette!).
Well, to end this threadjack in progress, I'll explain to you what I believe is wrong in space PvP:
The best shields, aside from POB shields, max out around 2000-2500 in value. Most single man or pilot/gunner ships cannot mount better than a Type IV, which runs about 1877 front/back.
The best armor maxes out around 1500-1800 that I've seen. Most combat starfighters cannot mount this and heavy shields at the same time. The best I can mount on an X-Wing is Type II, my B-Wing can mount Type IV.
The best weapons max out around 2500-3500 andcan be fired a dozen times within seconds. Most smaller starfighters usually mount advanced weapons, which top out at 2500, or heavy, which average 1800-2000.
JanuHull wrote:
Well, to end this threadjack in progress, I'll explain to you what I believe is wrong in space PvP:
The best shields, aside from POB shields, max out around 2000-2500 in value. Most single man or pilot/gunner ships cannot mount better than a Type IV, which runs about 1877 front/back.
The best armor maxes out around 1500-1800 that I've seen. Most combat starfighters cannot mount this and heavy shields at the same time. The best I can mount on an X-Wing is Type II, my B-Wing can mount Type IV.
The best weapons max out around 2500-3500 andcan be fired a dozen times within seconds. Most smaller starfighters usually mount advanced weapons, which top out at 2500, or heavy, which average 1800-2000.
Most ships mount at least two weapons. Many mount more than this. The math is simple.Player offensive capability is grossly overpowered compared to player defense. So long as this exists, PvP will remain nothing more than a very quick way to waste a LOT of credits on expensive chassis and component replacement.
Where ROTW adds a new element of imbalance is the exceptional performance stats on chassis inherent maneuverability in the JSF and CG TIE Interceptor. ROTW starfighters, given equal engines, fly circles around standard ships.
The CG TIE interceptor is reasonably, okay, i followed one for a couple of minutes last week going "That ship looks so cool!", then i blew it up!
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
JanuHull wrote:
Well, to end this threadjack in progress, I'll explain to you what I believe is wrong in space PvP:
The best shields, aside from POB shields, max out around 2000-2500 in value. Most single man or pilot/gunner ships cannot mount better than a Type IV, which runs about 1877 front/back.
The best armor maxes out around 1500-1800 that I've seen. Most combat starfighters cannot mount this and heavy shields at the same time. The best I can mount on an X-Wing is Type II, my B-Wing can mount Type IV.
The best weapons max out around 2500-3500 andcan be fired a dozen times within seconds. Most smaller starfighters usually mount advanced weapons, which top out at 2500, or heavy, which average 1800-2000.
Most ships mount at least two weapons. Many mount more than this. The math is simple.Player offensive capability is grossly overpowered compared to player defense. So long as this exists, PvP will remain nothing more than a very quick way to waste a LOT of credits on expensive chassis and component replacement.
Where ROTW adds a new element of imbalance is the exceptional performance stats on chassis inherent maneuverability in the JSF and CG TIE Interceptor. ROTW starfighters, given equal engines, fly circles around standard ships.
PvP in DS causes NO component degradation!
The CG TIE interceptor is reasonably, okay, i followed one for a couple of minutes last week going "That ship looks so cool!", then i blew it up!
We were in Kashyyyk space, chief. More than a few chassis ended up replaced last night.
GregorBlack wrote:
Hey, here's a thought, why not just make the existing ships better? Why not add another 30k onto an A-wing? Let's not make things worse. Believe me, nerfing things just leads to more problems. Does anyone here recall when the Devs nerfed Carbineer Knockdown and proceded to nerf every other good aspect of the profession 2-3 years ago? Oh, yes, it took 3 years and a Combat Upgrade to make Carbineer a desirable profession again.
I also believe that Rage of the Wookies is an expansion yes? And what do expansions add to games, based on expansions for other games? Is it not extra content and UPGRADES to original content? Just because you are not willing to upgrade to an ADVANCED X-wing or heavy Z-95, don't call for an inquisition. If you want to live in the past, by all means, go ahead. But don't bring down the people who want to live in the future. The fact is, Rage of the Wookies is NOW and the best thing they could do to balance things out would be to give existing ships more mass, weapon slots etc.
The FACT is, space has been in decline over the past few months. After people received their Ace Badges when JTLcame out, many if not most, hung up their ships, only to use in interplanetary instant travel. ROTW has brought Space back to life for most people.
Before you Flame me for not being a "regular pilot" as you flamed previous posters, I'll have you know that not only do I belong to Valcyn Server ( the unofficial pilot server) but am also a member of the 77th Pilot Organization. Most of the time I spend in-game is spent in space: doing missions, looting components, helping rookie pilots to level up, speaking with other pilots on 77th chat as well asGalaxyPilots Chat and doing guided tours of the Corellian Corvette Escort Mission regularly. I have mastered a Rebel Alliance Piloting tree as well as the neutral Smuggler's Alliance Piloting tree and plan on mastering an Imperial Pilot tree. So, I believe I do have some credibility behind my words.
Think positive before you think negative, my friend. Your post was destined to get flamed by angry pilots sick of people wanting to nerf the ROTW ships, before you even posted it.
Raptor2k1 wrote:
Space PvP is fine - 1 shot DOES NOT KILL - unless you have no shields - just dont engage an enemy head to head!
The only thing thats wrong with PvP is the fact POBs are so useless!
I would disagree - the only fighters that are really balanced in PvP are interceptors at the moment. Everything else should be a lot more forgiving in terms of how much damage they can take. Bombers for instance, your only hope with them is to launch hordes of missiles at opponents in hopes they can't close in for a brief salvo that takes out your ship. Things like Y-Wings, B-Wings, and TIE Bombers should be able to take a lot of punishment; PoB ships even moreso.
The only battles where ships should be even close to 1-shotting eachother is with interceptors.
The only legitimate argument I've seenin favor of this current balanceis that bumping up shields would make interceptors unkillable with cap to shield shunt. Perhaps that's what need to be evaluated instead?
Nope, I pvped fine in a Bwing when I first got it (and entrry to DS), just ask a wallowing pig driver if he is useless in PvP, I doubt he will say no!
TomoRainer wrote:
We just had an absurdly good dogfight. Lots of Eta-2s and Belbullabs on both sides, a few of the new light heavies, even one ARC. Unfortunately, Eta-2s and Belbullabs had replaced almost every TIE on the Imperial side, but there were still plenty of A-Wings out there. Lots of Xs, too.
I don't have anything specific to add just yet, but it's just always interesting to discuss how you think a change is going to play out in the game, then see how it actually affects things.
And therein lies the answer Tomo!