Pilot Archive
Thread: ROTW ships ruining space
What needs balance is space pvp itself.
Space pvp is currently a joke. Its all about ypr and speed because the first shot wins. If you are doing space pvev there is on choice in ships to use really
Andur_R wrote:
Umm...I just like to fly and shoot things. So I created 3 pilots for all 3 factions and just fly and do space combat PvE. Who cares who has what ship? Pilots in JTL play to fly and to dogfight and blow things up. Most JTL pilots could care less about the arguments in this whole thread.
Not entirely true, but close enough for now.
Just keep in mind what a rat f*cked mess PvP on the ground became because PvP players adopted the attitude "I don't care if its Star Wars, I 1nt 2 pwn!!!11!1one!!!".
You're correct, we want to fly and see explosions on the business end of our blaster bolts, but at the same time, some consideration needs to be paid to the immersion factor. Neither part works very well without the other.
I see your point, and I personally don't think these new fighters should be better than anythign we already have. However, if that was the case, and they were not any better than what we had with jtl, what would be the point of getting the new ships? Expansions typically offer better equipement than what is currently in the game. I still use my A-wing (because I can replace it easily) even though I have a grevious. I don't think the new ships are game breaking. But then, I don't see pvp in space that big of a deal, because there is very little on kettemoor anyway, and I'm not really into pvp anyway.
Kirsha - Kettemoor
I wouldn't call it very little, we've seen quite a bit more space action since the CU, and we've gota big battle soon.
alyris wrote:
I see your point, and I personally don't think these new fighters should be better than anythign we already have. However, if that was the case, and they were not any better than what we had with jtl, what would be the point of getting the new ships? Expansions typically offer better equipement than what is currently in the game. I still use my A-wing (because I can replace it easily) even though I have a grevious. I don't think the new ships are game breaking. But then, I don't see pvp in space that big of a deal, because there is very little on kettemoor anyway, and I'm not really into pvp anyway.
Kirsha - Kettemoor
I have thought time and time again to post a very clear an concise post as to why they should be adjust to make them fit into the paradigm that governs balance in JTL. However nothing i could say hasn't already been stated in ALL THE OTHER THREADS.
A new thread really wasnt neccessary.
Vegitaa wrote:
I've been involved in this exact same discussion about a dozen times in various threads... you know what, here's what I think.
Before these new ships it was extremely rare to see a Rebel overt in Deep Space, Kessel, or anywhere else. After ROTW it's still rare to see. For all the complaining and discussions and BS about these new ships... personally, I think it's bull. Why would you Rebels care either way? It's not like you actually participate in PvP except on maybe starsider. Otherwise Rebel pilots are totally unorganized and unwilling to fight anyway.
On my server the Rebel alliance is a joke when it comes to JTL. Ahazi, one of the more populated servers and I can sit in Deep Space overt for HOURS and never see a single Reb. How about this, when you finally get a squadron in the air, then you can complain. Till then just continue nerf-whoring on the BH/Jedi boards.
This whole balance, don't balance discussion is pointless. The Dev's have a hard enough time keeping servers up and you want them to meddle with things that aren't totally broken? Lets see... numerous professions completely borked, combat system borked, inventory borked, bugs with almost every new quest and item.... I hate to say it but JTL is the red-headed step child in SWG and you won't be seeing anything for quite sometime.
Though I support "balanced" gameplay in space, it's not a high priority issue when 90% of my flight time is spent killing the same NPC's over and over. Get some freakin pilots in the air then I'll take this seriously.
The only servers that I know of that can say they actually have real PvP in space are stardier and valcyn. If pilots from there wanna complain I'll listen. Otherwise, 2-6 Rebel pilots willing to PvP doesn't sound like a "majority of the population" to me.
Sorry but i PvP regularly and so do a lot of pilots on Chimaera - it is those regular PvPers (BOTH imperial and rebel) that dont like ALL the new ships, why?, because they havent been balanced yet!
Why dont we like this - because it ruins the variety of Space combat and as such turns it into composite wars in space! I am more than able to deal with most of the new crop of Imperials on my server who have gotten the JSF as they believe it will give them an edge in PvP. Mainly because, to be blunt, they are crap at fighting another human! However, when it comes to fighting someone i regularly pvped previous to ROTW they nearly always win because it isnt their skill that counts anymore - its the fact they use a ship which is not balanced and give them a huge advantage! They dont like it either, because they KNOW its their ship and not their skill that gets them the kill, plus, its so much miore BORING!
Scoooter wrote:
What needs balance is space pvp itself.
Space pvp is currently a joke. Its all about ypr and speed because the first shot wins. If you are doing space pvev there is on choice in ships to use really
Space PvP is fine - 1 shot DOES NOT KILL - unless you have no shields - just dont engage an enemy head to head!
The only thing thats wrong with PvP is the fact POBs are so useless!
CommTampers wrote:
There are solutions other than nerfing the current ships. Why not advance the "prototype" ships, like the Awing and Tie Advanced?
1. No-one wants a NERF we want a BALANCE pass - there is a VERY big difference
Feynan wrote:
I hate the new ROTW ships. For so long we complained about the ground game, how it didn't look like it was Imperials vs. Rebels fighting because it was just everyone in composite, well now I can see space battles where it's just Jedi Starfighters vs. Belabubbs. I would literally vomit if I saw that when the space GCW finally takes off. It should be X-Wings, B-Wings, A-Wings, Y-Wings vs. TIE's, or Nova's vs. Deci's.
Solution: Simply make the Jedi Starfighter and Belabubb not as good. They should be options to use, but they shouldn't be the BEST option. Lowering their mass by a significant amount is a good start, but they should only have 1 weapon slot and no ordnance slots (maybe 1 on the belabubb).
Personally, I think this should be in the Pilot Top 5 list for problems. It needs to be fixed before we get too deep in.
Hey, here's a thought, why not just make the existing ships better? Why not add another 30k onto an A-wing? Let's not make things worse. Believe me, nerfing things just leads to more problems. Does anyone here recall when the Devs nerfed Carbineer Knockdown and proceded to nerf every other good aspect of the profession 2-3 years ago? Oh, yes, it took 3 years and a Combat Upgrade to make Carbineer a desirable profession again.
Space PvP is fine - 1 shot DOES NOT KILL - unless you have no shields - just dont engage an enemy head to head!
The only thing thats wrong with PvP is the fact POBs are so useless!
I would disagree - the only fighters that are really balanced in PvP are interceptors at the moment. Everything else should be a lot more forgiving in terms of how much damage they can take. Bombers for instance, your only hope with them is to launch hordes of missiles at opponents in hopes they can't close in for a brief salvo that takes out your ship. Things like Y-Wings, B-Wings, and TIE Bombers should be able to take a lot of punishment; PoB ships even moreso.
The only battles where ships should be even close to 1-shotting eachother is with interceptors.
The only legitimate argument I've seenin favor of this current balanceis that bumping up shields would make interceptors unkillable with cap to shield shunt. Perhaps that's what need to be evaluated instead?
GregorBlack wrote:
Hey, here's a thought, why not just make the existing ships better? Why not add another 30k onto an A-wing? Let's not make things worse. Believe me, nerfing things just leads to more problems. Does anyone here recall when the Devs nerfed Carbineer Knockdown and proceded to nerf every other good aspect of the profession 2-3 years ago? Oh, yes, it took 3 years and a Combat Upgrade to make Carbineer a desirable profession again.
Um, the game is not even 2 years old, but your point is valid.
I also believe that Rage of the Wookies is an expansion yes? And what do expansions add to games, based on expansions for other games? Is it not extra content and UPGRADES to original content? Just because you are not willing to upgrade to an ADVANCED X-wing or heavy Z-95, don't call for an inquisition. If you want to live in the past, by all means, go ahead. But don't bring down the people who want to live in the future. The fact is, Rage of the Wookies is NOW and the best thing they could do to balance things out would be to give existing ships more mass, weapon slots etc.
The FACT is, space has been in decline over the past few months. After people received their Ace Badges when JTLcame out, many if not most, hung up their ships, only to use in interplanetary instant travel. ROTW has brought Space back to life for most people.
Well, what if this is part of a bigger plan, give up heavy starter ships now, then possibly the next expansion will give us heavy advanced fighters. Just a thought.
Kirsha - Kettemoor
Feynan wrote:
I hate the new ROTW ships. For so long we complained about the ground game, how it didn't look like it was Imperials vs. Rebels fighting because it was just everyone in composite, well now I can see space battles where it's just Jedi Starfighters vs. Belabubbs. I would literally vomit if I saw that when the space GCW finally takes off. It should be X-Wings, B-Wings, A-Wings, Y-Wings vs. TIE's, or Nova's vs. Deci's.
Solution: Simply make the Jedi Starfighter and Belabubb not as good. They should be options to use, but they shouldn't be the BEST option. Lowering their mass by a significant amount is a good start, but they should only have 1 weapon slot and no ordnance slots (maybe 1 on the belabubb).
Personally, I think this should be in the Pilot Top 5 list for problems. It needs to be fixed before we get too deep in.
OH shut up will you?
In any case, ground combat is balanced now mostly, now we need the same for space (at least a pvp damage reduction, it's just not fun killing or dieing that fast, I want real battles like in the Xwing games).Message Edited by Landorin on 05-29-2005 03:50 PM