Pilot Archive

Thread: JTL after Ace = Quenkers in space

Nifty
Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:08 pm
#27

a month later and deep space is still pretty damned empty. at least on Starsider it is. I think that shows not many people are interested in Space PvP as it is now, and that's with no penalties for dying.


I got nothing against PvP. I just wouldn't want to be forced to do it every time in space if I was a Imp or Reb.



Starsider: Abici Sselof, Master Entertainer, Musician and Pistoleer; Master Pilot
Electro5
Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:23 pm
#28

We've already established Perma-Overt is bad. I won't poke that wound again.


But I will say regarding the space PvP.... my opinion of why it doesn't happen is because there is really nothing to it. From what I hear, its basically 2 ships fly straight at each other, whoevers lasers hit first wins. Takes 3-4 shots to kill someone, and thats usually 1 pass. There's really no point as I see it.



Bria - Electro (N) ~ Shadowfire - Hydrolus (R) ~ Sunrunner - Zaxu Trizki (I) ~ Ahazi - Xonoryt (R) ~ Gorath - Geitizo Nimoirist (I) ~ Radiant - Tygran Virfais (N)
Datink_Nieleft
Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:07 am
#29






Archimedies wrote:

vnicula is like donkey in shrek.






Donkeh!



GostNDajtink
Original Smuggler
My bowels are loose and I'm a little gamey Want some toast?


Drave
Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:54 am
#30

You forgot one thing, until JTL gets at least a 50% damage reduction for pvp, it isnt worth it when you can be blown up in 3 shots.



Datink_Nieleft
Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:49 am
#31



5 Stars action plan activated



GostNDajtink
Original Smuggler
My bowels are loose and I'm a little gamey Want some toast?


Rhysen
Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:10 pm
#32


There are two amusing things about this thread


  1. The lack of maturity from the people responding

  2. The willingl ignorance to the fact that it's absolutely true.

I've seen children react better to PvP situations on XBox Live than some of the alleged adults that responded to this thread. It's something I've always found funny when the subject of PvP comes to a forum in a game like this. The Anti-PvPers often take the situation so seriously, take the actions that take place in a game so much to heart, that they toss their maturity straight out a window and begin to act worse than the people they loathe. This is a big fat ole "Grow Up!" to some of you (and you know who you are). At the pace yall are travelling, your children will need to start punishing you.


As for the situation, I'm actually incorrect. vnicula is not 100% right. At least running Quenker missions can lead to further progression for the player. They can begin the path to Jedi. They can grind another combat profession while retaining their current mastery. They can collect resources they need for ongoing business. A master pilot cannot do any of that. And the funniest thing of all is the people so vehemently opposed to PvP will demand SOE give them bigger, different looking space-bound Quenkers. Then complain just as vehemently that there's nothing to do. Because there won't be anything new to do.


The NPCs in space lack the ability to substantially change the player's game from day to day. New missions = more NPCs that the player has already killed. With the only thing that changes is the text the mission giver uses. That 90% of the people completely ignore. Wave after wave of Tier 5 NPC carbon copies. Even destroying the capital ships quickly becomes the same thing, as the NPCs will never change their tactics or strategies. Regardless of how a person may feel about Player vs Player combat it is rarely the same thing, especially when it's Open PvP. There is no guarantee if you'll be attacked. No guarantee when you'll be attacked. No guarantee where you'll be attacked. No guarantee that the forces that attacked you before will bethe same attacking you now. No guarantee that the person that attacked you before will attempt to use the same tactics they used before. Each PvP encounter has the potential to be substantially different from the last.


The Anti-PvPers will continue to vehemently attack and denounce anyone supporting PvP. Then complain viciously when all SOE can deliver is something that remains new for 1 or 2 encounters, becoming grinding material thereafter. The irony is amazing.

Message Edited by Rhysen on 12-25-2004 03:05 PM

TomoRainer
Sat Dec 25, 2004 4:42 pm
#33

If people don't like PVP, though, why is forcing them to do it going to make them have more fun? Perma-overt status, then, would sacrifice their fun--and they seem to be the majority--for that of a smaller group of players. That's a terrible way to run a game. Calling them immature and their actions ironic (even if they are) doesn't change that fact.

Don't get me wrong, though, I'd love to encourage PVP--I played the PVP server on Asheron's Call (and man was Darktide fun), and did a fair amount in the ground game before it got too stupid to bother with. This is just a bad way to do it. A couple ways to encourage PVP come up in this forum often, ones that don't involve dictating playstyle to people:

1) reduce PVP damage and

2) allow neutral players to earn FP in Deep Space.

I think those would go a long way to getting more pilots squaring off in space. The key to a good, healthy game is to implement rules to encourage PVP without ever forcing it upon those who don't want to participate.







Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent


Odajja
Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:00 pm
#34






vnicula wrote:

After one month its pretty sad to see I was right.

No Kessel forced PvP = NO FUN, kid.









Key word Being KID.


Also Love the FS idea. Say 30 million:1fs Xp. And its good in a new line of FS skill Whiner!!!


Perhaps Cancel is a option in this game that best suits you?




____________________________________________________________________

PBCFR Ranger to the end No matter how Un Iconic or Strawarsy they say it is! Bria
YOU SAY YOU ARE L33T & UBER. LET ME TAKE YOU TO A REAL FIRE FIGHT! THEN GIVE YOU NEW UNDIES>


Odajja not used.
Nicolas_Frost
Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:24 pm
#35






Rhysen wrote:


There are two amusing things about this thread


  1. The lack of maturity from the people responding

  2. The willingl ignorance to the fact that it's absolutely true.

I've seen children react better to PvP situations on XBox Live than some of the alleged adults that responded to this thread. It's something I've always found funny when the subject of PvP comes to a forum in a game like this. The Anti-PvPers often take the situation so seriously, take the actions that take place in a game so much to heart, that they toss their maturity straight out a window and begin to act worse than the people they loathe. This is a big fat ole "Grow Up!" to some of you (and you know who you are). At the pace yall are travelling, your children will need to start punishing you.


As for the situation, I'm actually incorrect. vnicula is not 100% right. At least running Quenker missions can lead to further progression for the player. They can begin the path to Jedi. They can grind another combat profession while retaining their current mastery. They can collect resources they need for ongoing business. A master pilot cannot do any of that. And the funniest thing of all is the people so vehemently opposed to PvP will demand SOE give them bigger, different looking space-bound Quenkers. Then complain just as vehemently that there's nothing to do. Because there won't be anything new to do.


The NPCs in space lack the ability to substantially change the player's game from day to day. New missions = more NPCs that the player has already killed. With the only thing that changes is the text the mission giver uses. That 90% of the people completely ignore. Wave after wave of Tier 5 NPC carbon copies. Even destroying the capital ships quickly becomes the same thing, as the NPCs will never change their tactics or strategies. Regardless of how a person may feel about Player vs Player combat it is rarely the same thing, especially when it's Open PvP. There is no guarantee if you'll be attacked. No guarantee when you'll be attacked. No guarantee where you'll be attacked. No guarantee that the forces that attacked you before will bethe same attacking you now. No guarantee that the person that attacked you before will attempt to use the same tactics they used before. Each PvP encounter has the potential to be substantially different from the last.


The Anti-PvPers will continue to vehemently attack and denounce anyone supporting PvP. Then complain viciously when all SOE can deliver is something that remains new for 1 or 2 encounters, becoming grinding material thereafter. The irony is amazing.


Message Edited by Rhysen on 12-25-2004 03:05 PM





I've got nothing against PvP gaming, I just don't want it forced upon me when I'm trying to do something else.



Jaecob Maragi
Babelonian Militia Captain
Master Smuggler and Alliance Pilot
Captain of the LongShot(2)
THE Official Smuggler Forum Smartass!
The prices of my services are based on "tolerance". The more I have to tolerate you, the more you have to pay me.


Rhysen
Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:03 am
#36






Nicolas_Frost wrote:

I've got nothing against PvP gaming, I just don't want it forced upon me when I'm trying to do something else.






That's kinda the point: there is nothing else to do after a certain point. I'm about to hit Master myself and can see that there's very little left to do. Farm components in an attempt to make my 'perfect' ship. Help others reach Master. That's it though. No further forward progression. And nothing new to do that I won't have already done more than repeatedly.


So what is the "something else" you plan to do once you reach Master?



Huntseeker
Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:43 am
#37

Ok i don't know wither this works (maybe one of you guys can tell me) but if your not a ACE/Master/whatever yet you have a PVP enabled (ie declared status) then would you still be able to kill other PvP enabled pilots in kessel? And I managed to find a new way to grind faction points in kessel




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VT-49 Decimator R.A.M.B.O {Ranger Armoured, Mobile Base of Operations} Y8-Minning ship RAMBO II {Ranger Armoured Mining Base of Operations}



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Trienco
Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:37 am
#38



Drave wrote:
You forgot one thing, until JTL gets at least a 50% damage reduction for pvp, it isnt worth it when you can be blown up in 3 shots.





even better: reduce ALL weapon damage to sensible values, get a clue and stop npcs from being cheaters from hell that take 20 times more damage than a player ship. whats the point of that anyway? first npcs get ridiculously tough shields and armor to make them more challenging (i guess), then players get overpowered weapons (because else they couldnt shoot down any npcs), then pvp damage is reduced (because player weapons do far too much damage). seriously, has homer simpson found a job as game designer and is doing the balancing?

the moment they realized damage is too high and you die too fast in pvp it should have been a wakeup call, but i guess somebody prefered to be lazy and instead of reducing shield/armour of npcs and weapon damage by x% it was quicker to just hack away and reduce pvp damage.

no surprise deep space is completely empty (havent seen anyone here all day), who cares about being blown apart by an unnoticed player that got off 2 or 3 lucky shots? right now you can either shoot fish in a barrel (npcs) or just not go there at all.
Nicolas_Frost
Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:11 am
#39



Trienco wrote:


Drave wrote:
You forgot one thing, until JTL gets at least a 50% damage reduction for pvp, it isnt worth it when you can be blown up in 3 shots.





even better: reduce ALL weapon damage to sensible values, get a clue and stop npcs from being cheaters from hell that take 20 times more damage than a player ship. whats the point of that anyway? first npcs get ridiculously tough shields and armor to make them more challenging (i guess), then players get overpowered weapons (because else they couldnt shoot down any npcs), then pvp damage is reduced (because player weapons do far too much damage). seriously, has homer simpson found a job as game designer and is doing the balancing?

the moment they realized damage is too high and you die too fast in pvp it should have been a wakeup call, but i guess somebody prefered to be lazy and instead of reducing shield/armour of npcs and weapon damage by x% it was quicker to just hack away and reduce pvp damage.

no surprise deep space is completely empty (havent seen anyone here all day), who cares about being blown apart by an unnoticed player that got off 2 or 3 lucky shots? right now you can either shoot fish in a barrel (npcs) or just not go there at all.




Well, for the NPCs, that's SOE's idea of increasing difficulty- adding zeros to the end of thier stats.

Tier 1 TIEs fight just the same as Tier 5 TIEs, the only difference is how fast they can go, how much damage they deal, and how much damage they can take.

I'd prefer NPCs and players to deal less damage, but the AI be better or worse through the Tiers, instead of NPCs doing one of three things, flying in a cirlce, flying in a straight line away from you, or flying in a straight line at you. I mean, as long as my ship is manuverable and close to the same speed as these NPCs, I can follow them very easily. One-on-One fights are really no challenge.



Jaecob Maragi
Babelonian Militia Captain
Master Smuggler and Alliance Pilot
Captain of the LongShot(2)
THE Official Smuggler Forum Smartass!
The prices of my services are based on "tolerance". The more I have to tolerate you, the more you have to pay me.


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