Pilot Archive

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xTekx wrote:

Hmm.. Apok.. the fact is you'd still be using Epulse.. doesn't matter if its' 1, 2, or 3. That tactic is a way to damage an opponet with out using any skill. All you have to do is press a button. No amount of rationalizing on using EP2 instead of EP3 will clear the fact that it is a command that does not belong in PvP. I really don't see how you can hate EP3 and still use EP2. EP2 may not kill you, but it could leave you disabled... which is the same thing.

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The devs made EPulse. Is it overpowerd? yep. Is it a cheap shot? yep. Is it a sploit, cheat, hack? nope. It's there for people who like being pirates. And even if you don't role play there is a reason you became a freelance pilot rather then a faction pilot. Whatever that reason is it probably has nothing to do with "rules", "law and order", or being Mr./Ms. popular. Some people like the insane power of freelance ships. The made a choice to go tank instead of nimble. Those same people probably like the idea of being able to be sneaky seaky which is fine.

And even if JTL is twitch based PVP there is no need the role playing needs to stop at the PVP level. If I played a pirate/smuggler/bounty huntercharacter you bet your buns I'd use every trick in the book to make sure I lived to fight another day. If my engines are down and my shields are gone and I'm a sitting duck should I wait for the guy to come back and finish me off or should I use my last ditch attack and kill or be killed? If he gets tore up by my EPulse it's his fault for not staying outside the sitting ducks range and using a missile.

Are there people who abuse this? Of course. These are the "leet doodz" who just want to "pwn" everything. But you get that in every profession and every faction. If a pilot is a known EP3 abuser 9 times out of 10 that person is also a rotten pilot and that rotten piloting will catch up to him someday. Just like the RGI, there are ways around EP3.

So if this guy wants to use EP2 my hat is off to him. He's trying to play the game and have fun and at the same time find a happy medium between what people think is "wrong" and what the devs seem to think is right. Give him a break. He could just say "I use EP3: Deal with it."

Here's some general rules of etiquette that I can think of...

1. Don't use dummy missiles, or lag missiles, or whatever you want to call the fake purple missiles.


2. If you're flying a ROTW ship, don't trash talk when you beat someone who's flying a pre-ROTW ship.


3. Don't complain when someone beats you with missiles. Learn to use chaff.


4. Don't use epulse in PvP.


5. When you see someone load in, hold back until you see them start moving.


6. If you keep killing a noob over and over, give him some pointers.


7. If you're hunting for PvP, and come across someone who obviously doesn't see you, try to get their attention before vaping them.


8. If you come acrossa noob in DS who's only interested in PvE at the moment, leave them alone. If you keep taking them out, all you do is drive them away from PvP completely.


9. Don't intentionally target someone's engine when doing PvP outside of Deep Space. Target their reactor if you want to try to disable them, since decayed reactors are much easier to replace.


10. If you come across some players doing an RP PvP event, such as if everyone is intentionally using lower lever weapons, or if everyone is flying only lower level ships, don't just fly in and vape them all.

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Apok76 wrote:

Before publish24, an EP2 from a YT-1300 at 300m would just do about 60% shild damage to the facing shield quad, you had to be within 100m for it to be a disabling hit. I know, we tested it thoroughly. That was tested using a craftedMark4 shield. I have not done any testing since the pub24, but I will, and I will post what we find.

This is why I decided it was acceptable to use EP2 from a POB, I guess I should test post-pub24, to see how it changed it.

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/sigh

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Thradd wrote:

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Imaridril wrote:

Here's some general rules of etiquette that I can think of...

1. Don't use dummy missiles, or lag missiles, or whatever you want to call the fake purple missiles.


2. If you're flying a ROTW ship, don't trash talk when you beat someone who's flying a pre-ROTW ship.


3. Don't complain when someone beats you with missiles. Learn to use chaff.


4. Don't use epulse in PvP.


5. When you see someone load in, hold back until you see them start moving.


6. If you keep killing a noob over and over, give him some pointers.


7. If you're hunting for PvP, and come across someone who obviously doesn't see you, try to get their attention before vaping them.


8. If you come acrossa noob in DS who's only interested in PvE at the moment, leave them alone. If you keep taking them out, all you do is drive them away from PvP completely.


9. Don't intentionally target someone's engine when doing PvP outside of Deep Space. Target their reactor if you want to try to disable them, since decayed reactors are much easier to replace.


10. If you come across some players doing an RP PvP event, such as if everyone is intentionally using lower lever weapons, or if everyone is flying only lower level ships, don't just fly in and vape them all.

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Going to have to disagree with that one. Poor situational awareness is the #1 killer among new pilots and vet pilots alike. Just a few nights ago I had been in DS for about 3 hours and handn't see a sign of any other pilot. SO I started to zone out and kill NPCs. Next thing I kow I notice my rear shields are going down faster than normal, and just before I got my cut scene, I hit the Z button and there was Jerom and his little B-22. Now should I be mad at him for being sneaky and taking adantage of a good situation or should I be mad at myself for not staying on top of my environment?

I have found the best way to teachnew pilotsthe importance of keeping your head on rotate is by moving in, and sending them back to the space station. Afterward you talk to them and tell them what just happend and why.

At that point one of two thingsare going to happen. The pilot is going to pay more attention next time and thus become a better pilot...or he is going to whine about not being given a chance and never come back to space again. I am perfectly happy with either result. Good pilots we need. Cry baby pilots who expect to "pwn", we don't.

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Suggestions welcome.

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LeaphChausew wrote:

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Apok76 wrote:

Before publish24, an EP2 from a YT-1300 at 300m would just do about 60% shild damage to the facing shield quad, you had to be within 100m for it to be a disabling hit. I know, we tested it thoroughly. That was tested using a craftedMark4 shield. I have not done any testing since the pub24, but I will, and I will post what we find.

This is why I decided it was acceptable to use EP2 from a POB, I guess I should test post-pub24, to see how it changed it.

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/sigh

The epulse issue has been debated over and over and over again but in summary...those who actually KNOW what they're talking about tend to agree that Epulsers have no actual piloting prowess and are generally simply trying to save grace by justifying its cheapness.

Epulse is cheap and I don't care about the oppinions of anyone else who disagrees with that because 1. I have much more pvp experience than you and 2. Frankly, if you havn't shot me down with blasters (or hell even missiles, at least they're counterable) as much as or more than I've shot you down then I think I have a little more authority on the workings of pvp. Funnily enough, there is only one pilot who ever outkilled me in pvp and they quit before I could catch up. Oh and 3. The reasons why Epulse is cheap and unbalanced have been quite clearly stated before and any damned idiot could see from reading the full argument on other threads that the reasons against Epulse GREATLY outweigh the reasons for epulse in pvp.

Arrogant viewpoint I know, but I'm just fed up of the increase in charlatan comments on this board.

Oh and before I get burned at the stake....

1. I never loadcamp

2. I don't fly a JSF and no I'm not a Jedi

3. I never used launchmissile

4. I've never EVER used purposeful lagging in order to win a fight

5. As I said, I'll handle myself just fine against odds which aren't in my favour and if I have died du to being 'ganked' then I'll come back to fight because frankly, it's fun.

6. I may come over in this post as a bit self righteous but to be honest I can afford to be because not only do I know what I've talking about...I've also got the practical skills to back them up.

7. I don't really care about my kill ratio to be perfectly honest, but when people start talking rubbish I'll pipe up and lay down some facts even if I sound big headed or whatever.

/rantover.

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I bet you don't have more PVP experience than I do kiddo. If I could bring my Vaksai or squint to Starsider I'd cram that A-wing of yours right up your booster I've got an Imp ace on Starsider but there is no way I'll be able to get him caught up to the other pilots partswise. However, if you want to meet me in Kessel sometime in a prototype ship let me know. No missiles, no EP, no overloads, no uber componants. Just 2 pilots in starter ships pitting skill against skill.

And it's too bad you're not a Jedi. You've got the whole "I R leet" attitude down. You should at the very least be a ground PVPer. Shame to waste all that attitude on space.

I got EPulsed a few weeks ago. The guy couldn't hit me. He was in a JSF I was in my Vak. Even when I flew in and around a Reb vette with the vette and the other NPCs shooting at me he still couldn't hit me (am I just that damn good or is the Vaksai hit box bugged too?). So after baiting him a bit I decided it was time to end it. I flew up and over the vette to close in then *BAM* I'm dead. Was it the vette? Was it a one shot hit from his megga cannons? Nope. EP3. But I'm not going to get mad at him for using it or cut him down or flame him for it. I'm going to get mad at myself for not avoiding it. Hard as it is to avoid I still could have. I could have missiled him to death, I could have flown better. I could have tripped him up in the NPC swarm. I could have done any number of things. But one thing I won't do is hate on the guy for using a last ditch attack to get the win. The person I will hate on is the person who abuses EP.

Apok, you and your family do what you need to do. Play the game, have fun, and give 'em hell. You are obviously not one of the a55hats who abuse the EP weapon and seem like a nice person and a good pilot. It's a shame that there is a group of cool kids in the pilot community who can't see past their own "rules". Pilots are getting just as bad as Jedi and the rest of the ground PVPers.

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CNevyn wrote:

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Thradd wrote:

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Imaridril wrote:

Here's some general rules of etiquette that I can think of...

1. Don't use dummy missiles, or lag missiles, or whatever you want to call the fake purple missiles.


2. If you're flying a ROTW ship, don't trash talk when you beat someone who's flying a pre-ROTW ship.


3. Don't complain when someone beats you with missiles. Learn to use chaff.


4. Don't use epulse in PvP.


5. When you see someone load in, hold back until you see them start moving.


6. If you keep killing a noob over and over, give him some pointers.


7. If you're hunting for PvP, and come across someone who obviously doesn't see you, try to get their attention before vaping them.


8. If you come acrossa noob in DS who's only interested in PvE at the moment, leave them alone. If you keep taking them out, all you do is drive them away from PvP completely.


9. Don't intentionally target someone's engine when doing PvP outside of Deep Space. Target their reactor if you want to try to disable them, since decayed reactors are much easier to replace.


10. If you come across some players doing an RP PvP event, such as if everyone is intentionally using lower lever weapons, or if everyone is flying only lower level ships, don't just fly in and vape them all.

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Going to have to disagree with that one. Poor situational awareness is the #1 killer among new pilots and vet pilots alike. Just a few nights ago I had been in DS for about 3 hours and handn't see a sign of any other pilot. SO I started to zone out and kill NPCs. Next thing I kow I notice my rear shields are going down faster than normal, and just before I got my cut scene, I hit the Z button and there was Jerom and his little B-22. Now should I be mad at him for being sneaky and taking adantage of a good situation or should I be mad at myself for not staying on top of my environment?

I have found the best way to teachnew pilotsthe importance of keeping your head on rotate is by moving in, and sending them back to the space station. Afterward you talk to them and tell them what just happend and why.

At that point one of two thingsare going to happen. The pilot is going to pay more attention next time and thus become a better pilot...or he is going to whine about not being given a chance and never come back to space again. I am perfectly happy with either result. Good pilots we need. Cry baby pilots who expect to "pwn", we don't.

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Have to agree with Thradd on this one. Though just as often I'll hang back and see what they'll do. 'bout half the Sunrunner DS flyers are quite aware, and we'll toss a wave as we pass and begin our dance. The other half are much newer and "If I boost in with guns blazing I'll 'git 'im!".

Sometimes I'll do a flyby on a newer pilot to wake them up, but more often than not I'll attack from stealth. Kinda goes with my ground profession... and well, I haven't figured out a suitable RP warning for Rebels. Imps can make up and quote Imperial protocols, regulations and citations... but what shall I do? Warn them their violating the safety zone around Freedom station when I'm buzzing the ISD looking for targets? lol

Suggestions welcome.

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Well, the reason I think its bad etiquette to vape someone who doesn't even see you coming is that 90% of the time when you do that, they don't bother coming back. Even if someone is a total noob, if you give them an opportunity to kill you, there's a better chance of them returning for a rematch. The fact is that in JTL, if someone doesn't see you coming, it takes almost zero skill to take them out. I wouldn't even classify it as PvP, since the "versus" part never happened. If you want to do it, go ahead, but personally I don't get any thrill out of it, and I doubt the other person does either. Basically, look at it this way... If you've been flying around for an hour looking for someone to PvP against, wouldn't you rather fight against someone who is going to react and test your skills? All that killing someone who doesn't see you coming accomplishes is to delay an actual PvP encounter for 5 minutes while you wait for the poor sucker to rerun his programs and come back, which most of the time doesn't even happen. If PvP had some sort of global effect on the game, then I could see the arguement for taking out someone that doesn't see you, but right now, the only reason to PvP is for the thrill of PvPing, so what's the point of squandering a PvP chance by boosting in and killing someone before they even know you're their?

Now, that all being said, I think there's a few reasonable exceptions to the rule...

1. If I'm hunting for loot in DS and come across a rebel trying to take out the ISD, I'll kill him without any warning, since letting him take out the ISD clears all the NPC spawns.


2. If I'm not actively looking for PvP, andI'm instead farming faction or loot, I'll go after someone without warning, since I don't want to have to keep looking over my back to see if they've decided to come after me.


3. If I come across a group of players that I'm fairly certain are looking for PvP, I'll go at them without warning, since they already have a numerical advantage, and I can use the death of one of them as the wake up call to the others.

Generally, the way I try to get the attention of someone who doesn't see me is to target them and then hit escape a dozen or so times in a row while closing on them. Most people realize there's another player in the area when they hear the targetting beep 10+ times in a row.

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Thradd wrote:

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Imaridril wrote:

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CNevyn wrote:

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Thradd wrote:

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Imaridril wrote:

Here's some general rules of etiquette that I can think of...

1. Don't use dummy missiles, or lag missiles, or whatever you want to call the fake purple missiles.


2. If you're flying a ROTW ship, don't trash talk when you beat someone who's flying a pre-ROTW ship.


3. Don't complain when someone beats you with missiles. Learn to use chaff.


4. Don't use epulse in PvP.


5. When you see someone load in, hold back until you see them start moving.


6. If you keep killing a noob over and over, give him some pointers.


7. If you're hunting for PvP, and come across someone who obviously doesn't see you, try to get their attention before vaping them.


8. If you come acrossa noob in DS who's only interested in PvE at the moment, leave them alone. If you keep taking them out, all you do is drive them away from PvP completely.


9. Don't intentionally target someone's engine when doing PvP outside of Deep Space. Target their reactor if you want to try to disable them, since decayed reactors are much easier to replace.


10. If you come across some players doing an RP PvP event, such as if everyone is intentionally using lower lever weapons, or if everyone is flying only lower level ships, don't just fly in and vape them all.

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Going to have to disagree with that one. Poor situational awareness is the #1 killer among new pilots and vet pilots alike. Just a few nights ago I had been in DS for about 3 hours and handn't see a sign of any other pilot. SO I started to zone out and kill NPCs. Next thing I kow I notice my rear shields are going down faster than normal, and just before I got my cut scene, I hit the Z button and there was Jerom and his little B-22. Now should I be mad at him for being sneaky and taking adantage of a good situation or should I be mad at myself for not staying on top of my environment?

I have found the best way to teachnew pilotsthe importance of keeping your head on rotate is by moving in, and sending them back to the space station. Afterward you talk to them and tell them what just happend and why.

At that point one of two thingsare going to happen. The pilot is going to pay more attention next time and thus become a better pilot...or he is going to whine about not being given a chance and never come back to space again. I am perfectly happy with either result. Good pilots we need. Cry baby pilots who expect to "pwn", we don't.

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Have to agree with Thradd on this one. Though just as often I'll hang back and see what they'll do. 'bout half the Sunrunner DS flyers are quite aware, and we'll toss a wave as we pass and begin our dance. The other half are much newer and "If I boost in with guns blazing I'll 'git 'im!".

Sometimes I'll do a flyby on a newer pilot to wake them up, but more often than not I'll attack from stealth. Kinda goes with my ground profession... and well, I haven't figured out a suitable RP warning for Rebels. Imps can make up and quote Imperial protocols, regulations and citations... but what shall I do? Warn them their violating the safety zone around Freedom station when I'm buzzing the ISD looking for targets? lol

Suggestions welcome.

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Well, the reason I think its bad etiquette to vape someone who doesn't even see you coming is that 90% of the time when you do that, they don't bother coming back. Even if someone is a total noob, if you give them an opportunity to kill you, there's a better chance of them returning for a rematch. The fact is that in JTL, if someone doesn't see you coming, it takes almost zero skill to take them out. I wouldn't even classify it as PvP, since the "versus" part never happened. If you want to do it, go ahead, but personally I don't get any thrill out of it, and I doubt the other person does either. Basically, look at it this way... If you've been flying around for an hour looking for someone to PvP against, wouldn't you rather fight against someone who is going to react and test your skills? All that killing someone who doesn't see you coming accomplishes is to delay an actual PvP encounter for 5 minutes while you wait for the poor sucker to rerun his programs and come back, which most of the time doesn't even happen. If PvP had some sort of global effect on the game, then I could see the arguement for taking out someone that doesn't see you, but right now, the only reason to PvP is for the thrill of PvPing, so what's the point of squandering a PvP chance by boosting in and killing someone before they even know you're their?

Now, that all being said, I think there's a few reasonable exceptions to the rule...

1. If I'm hunting for loot in DS and come across a rebel trying to take out the ISD, I'll kill him without any warning, since letting him take out the ISD clears all the NPC spawns.


2. If I'm not actively looking for PvP, andI'm instead farming faction or loot, I'll go after someone without warning, since I don't want to have to keep looking over my back to see if they've decided to come after me.


3. If I come across a group of players that I'm fairly certain are looking for PvP, I'll go at them without warning, since they already have a numerical advantage, and I can use the death of one of them as the wake up call to the others.

Generally, the way I try to get the attention of someone who doesn't see me is to target them and then hit escape a dozen or so times in a row while closing on them. Most people realize there's another player in the area when they hear the targetting beep 10+ times in a row.

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Uhhh ok. You're exceptions to your "don't shoot them in the back" rule kind of kills that rule completely don't you think. Unless I'm reading it wrong. You either sneak kill or you don't. No need to justify it either way. It's not like loadkilling.

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The list was a set of ettiquette rulesfor PvP. In other words, they're rules that you should be following if you're actively out looking for another player to fight against. The exceptions I listed are times when a player could be overt but not actively looking for PvP, or when attacking without warning won't completely eliminate the PvP encounter from happening.

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Blasting an overt who isn't aware of you doesn't take skill. I agree. However, it does take skill to be aware of your environment. Natural Sellection. Stay alert, stay alive. All that good stuff. It's not my fault that the other guy, noob or not, wasn't paying attention. I've paid the price for my lack of situational awareness more than a few times.

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That's all true, but what's the point of killing someone like that? You definately don't gain any bragging rights, and there's no in-game PvP score or something? You don't hone any of your skills by doing it, and I'd say the majority of players don't get any thirll out of it. If you actually enjoy the act of pitting your skills against someone else's skills, then vaping someone who doesn't see you just gets rid of an opportunity to do that.

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99.9% of the time the /tells that follow will be an invitation to set up a more skilled and civilized match. No missiles, set meeting place and so on. Then after that you've just got yourself a new sparring friend. If they guy whines then I don't want him in my vacuum anyway. Space should be quick harsh and deadly. Playing pattycake with noob pilots will only make them soft and take them longer to train. Start hard and you'llbe able to train a hard pilot. First lesson...situational awareness.

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Space on your server must be completely different. First off, if you vape someone who doesn't even see you, there's no way they'll be able to send you a /tell, since there's no combat spam and no way for them to get your name. And secondly, if you're the one sending a /tell and asking for a rematch, then why didn't you just try to get their attention in the first place? If you really wanted a straight upPvP fight, what's the point in delaying it by 5 minutes by forcing the other guy to rerun his commands? And I'd have to disagree with you on how to treat noobs. One reason that Starsider has such a healthy space PvP community is that we don't treat the noobs like cannon fodder. We give them pointers, we don't force them into PvP if we know they're still trying to farm the loot they want for their PvP ship, and informal fights we'll go easy on them so that they can get more than 5 seconds of practice time in each fight.

As for "situational awareness", all that means in JTL is pushing your "target next enemy player" button. There's no great skill to be learned there. Heck, a lot of players with programable joysticks just set up a looping macro for it. When the server load is heavy, it can be quite common for an enemy player to not show up until he's only around 1000 meters out. If you're busy doing PvE at that moment, its pretty much a matter of luck as toweather or not you see them in time. If you ambush and kill someone in such a situation, you shouldn't feel like you've accomplished anything importantexcept to take advantage of the limitations of SOE's servers.

This thread was supposed to be list of PvP etiquette, and not a guide at how to win at allcosts. The purpose of etiquette is to enhance a group as a whole, even if some of the behaviors put undue preassure on individual members. As for PvPers in JTL, the group as awholeis benefitted the most when more new players join the PvP ranks, and when those that already PvP choose to PvP more often. I think most JTL players would agree that using epulse in PvP and gunning down noobs that don't see you has the exact opposite effect.

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Thradd wrote:

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LeaphChausew wrote:

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Apok76 wrote:

Before publish24, an EP2 from a YT-1300 at 300m would just do about 60% shild damage to the facing shield quad, you had to be within 100m for it to be a disabling hit. I know, we tested it thoroughly. That was tested using a craftedMark4 shield. I have not done any testing since the pub24, but I will, and I will post what we find.

This is why I decided it was acceptable to use EP2 from a POB, I guess I should test post-pub24, to see how it changed it.

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/sigh

The epulse issue has been debated over and over and over again but in summary...those who actually KNOW what they're talking about tend to agree that Epulsers have no actual piloting prowess and are generally simply trying to save grace by justifying its cheapness.

Epulse is cheap and I don't care about the oppinions of anyone else who disagrees with that because 1. I have much more pvp experience than you and 2. Frankly, if you havn't shot me down with blasters (or hell even missiles, at least they're counterable) as much as or more than I've shot you down then I think I have a little more authority on the workings of pvp. Funnily enough, there is only one pilot who ever outkilled me in pvp and they quit before I could catch up. Oh and 3. The reasons why Epulse is cheap and unbalanced have been quite clearly stated before and any damned idiot could see from reading the full argument on other threads that the reasons against Epulse GREATLY outweigh the reasons for epulse in pvp.

Arrogant viewpoint I know, but I'm just fed up of the increase in charlatan comments on this board.

Oh and before I get burned at the stake....

1. I never loadcamp

2. I don't fly a JSF and no I'm not a Jedi

3. I never used launchmissile

4. I've never EVER used purposeful lagging in order to win a fight

5. As I said, I'll handle myself just fine against odds which aren't in my favour and if I have died du to being 'ganked' then I'll come back to fight because frankly, it's fun.

6. I may come over in this post as a bit self righteous but to be honest I can afford to be because not only do I know what I've talking about...I've also got the practical skills to back them up.

7. I don't really care about my kill ratio to be perfectly honest, but when people start talking rubbish I'll pipe up and lay down some facts even if I sound big headed or whatever.

/rantover.

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I bet you don't have more PVP experience than I do kiddo. If I could bring my Vaksai or squint to Starsider I'd cram that A-wing of yours right up your booster I've got an Imp ace on Starsider but there is no way I'll be able to get him caught up to the other pilots partswise. However, if you want to meet me in Kessel sometime in a prototype ship let me know. No missiles, no EP, no overloads, no uber componants. Just 2 pilots in starter ships pitting skill against skill.

And it's too bad you're not a Jedi. You've got the whole "I R leet" attitude down. You should at the very least be a ground PVPer. Shame to waste all that attitude on space.

I got EPulsed a few weeks ago. The guy couldn't hit me. He was in a JSF I was in my Vak. Even when I flew in and around a Reb vette with the vette and the other NPCs shooting at me he still couldn't hit me (am I just that damn good or is the Vaksai hit box bugged too?). So after baiting him a bit I decided it was time to end it. I flew up and over the vette to close in then *BAM* I'm dead. Was it the vette? Was it a one shot hit from his megga cannons? Nope. EP3. But I'm not going to get mad at him for using it or cut him down or flame him for it. I'm going to get mad at myself for not avoiding it. Hard as it is to avoid I still could have. I could have missiled him to death, I could have flown better. I could have tripped him up in the NPC swarm. I could have done any number of things. But one thing I won't do is hate on the guy for using a last ditch attack to get the win. The person I will hate on is the person who abuses EP.

"A pilot with no ego is just some guy." Very true. But there is a huge difference between "pilot ego" and being a self rightous **edit**.

Apok, you and your family do what you need to do. Play the game, have fun, and give 'em hell. You are obviously not one of the a55hats who abuse the EP weapon and seem like a nice person and a good pilot. It's a shame that there is a group of cool kids in the pilot community who can't see past their own "rules". Pilots are getting just as bad as Jedi and the rest of the ground PVPers.

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Correction.

I don't think I'm leet or anything remoetly like that. I was statting pure facts. The fact you accuse me of being like a Jedi is just pathetic too. I try my best to generate as much good natured pvp as I can. Yeh admittedly my post was kind of strongly worded but hey, I know what I'm talking about most of the time.

In fact it's downright insulting that you say that with what I'm trying to do for duel nights on Starsider. If someone comes and blows me to hell...then thats cool, whatever.. I'm not exactly going to lose sleep over it but I will try and improve. The things I do get slightly annoyed about are people who state things which are completely unfounded. There are oppinions but then again we get people who state things as if they're gospel without reasonable fact behind them. Everything I say I could back up...trust me on that one.

I don't mind getting EP3 once. I'm talking about those who INTENTIONALY go out of their way to grief others by using it. Example; the other night In deep space a newly made ace pilot fought me a few times, I made friends with him and the last time he epulsed me. I just aid to him through a tell "did you just epulse me because that death felt kinda random" and he replied witha "yes." Now he/she realised the fun killingness of the attack so stopped using it AND I'm helping them with setting up theirJSF because I think they could get real good.

So Thradd, whatever..I hope you enjoyed your little rant at me even though it wasn't -you- who I was originally addressing. Be self righteous and think what you like but until someone gives me a solid reason why EP3 is a strategy which is reasonably balanced in pvp, I'm not listening.

As for your idea about your squint or Vaksai, /shrug the only thing I can say to that is the fact you don't think you could keep up on starsider with your ace toon in pvp is kind of silly. I mean, I know Bria' and xTekx from Bloodfin along with a couple of others have grinded up fresh toons on Starsider and are doing just fine and are actually contributing to the pvp scenario. They started from scratch.

First of all - stop quoting each other. It's making me go blind.

As for Leaph - well, I think you could poll any pilot from Starsider who PvPs in space - or even pilots on Bria - and they'd tell you thatLeaph /IS/ the one of, if not thebest pilot, and I'm proud to have in my squadron and to get to fly with him any chance I get. And Adondis is probably one of the best Imperial pilots I've ever flown against, along with Pace and Du'long (my new arch-nemesis ).

Message Edited by Arands on 10-28-2005 07:07 PM

Message Edited by Durgan_Kael on 10-29-2005 02:00 AM

It would be nice if epulse was gone, but it isn't and until it is, I won't hate on anyone using it. I will however curse the devs to infinity. As long as your not using bugged, exploited equipment or hacks, etc. then anything is fine by me. If its in the game, it has a place in combat. I've found that in MMO games, nobody is ever completely happy with the "rules" of the game and the ethics of the community. SoI try my best not to let these things bother me and do what I can to accomodate for other pilots using "cheap" tactics. All in all, I try to follow whatever "code" the community flies by whether I agree or not. The game is most fun when players compromise for everyone's benefit.

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Imaridril wrote:

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CNevyn wrote:

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Thradd wrote:

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Imaridril wrote:

Here's some general rules of etiquette that I can think of...

1. Don't use dummy missiles, or lag missiles, or whatever you want to call the fake purple missiles.


2. If you're flying a ROTW ship, don't trash talk when you beat someone who's flying a pre-ROTW ship.


3. Don't complain when someone beats you with missiles. Learn to use chaff.


4. Don't use epulse in PvP.


5. When you see someone load in, hold back until you see them start moving.


6. If you keep killing a noob over and over, give him some pointers.


7. If you're hunting for PvP, and come across someone who obviously doesn't see you, try to get their attention before vaping them.


8. If you come acrossa noob in DS who's only interested in PvE at the moment, leave them alone. If you keep taking them out, all you do is drive them away from PvP completely.


9. Don't intentionally target someone's engine when doing PvP outside of Deep Space. Target their reactor if you want to try to disable them, since decayed reactors are much easier to replace.


10. If you come across some players doing an RP PvP event, such as if everyone is intentionally using lower lever weapons, or if everyone is flying only lower level ships, don't just fly in and vape them all.

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Going to have to disagree with that one. Poor situational awareness is the #1 killer among new pilots and vet pilots alike. Just a few nights ago I had been in DS for about 3 hours and handn't see a sign of any other pilot. SO I started to zone out and kill NPCs. Next thing I kow I notice my rear shields are going down faster than normal, and just before I got my cut scene, I hit the Z button and there was Jerom and his little B-22. Now should I be mad at him for being sneaky and taking adantage of a good situation or should I be mad at myself for not staying on top of my environment?

I have found the best way to teachnew pilotsthe importance of keeping your head on rotate is by moving in, and sending them back to the space station. Afterward you talk to them and tell them what just happend and why.

At that point one of two thingsare going to happen. The pilot is going to pay more attention next time and thus become a better pilot...or he is going to whine about not being given a chance and never come back to space again. I am perfectly happy with either result. Good pilots we need. Cry baby pilots who expect to "pwn", we don't.

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Have to agree with Thradd on this one. Though just as often I'll hang back and see what they'll do. 'bout half the Sunrunner DS flyers are quite aware, and we'll toss a wave as we pass and begin our dance. The other half are much newer and "If I boost in with guns blazing I'll 'git 'im!".

Sometimes I'll do a flyby on a newer pilot to wake them up, but more often than not I'll attack from stealth. Kinda goes with my ground profession... and well, I haven't figured out a suitable RP warning for Rebels. Imps can make up and quote Imperial protocols, regulations and citations... but what shall I do? Warn them their violating the safety zone around Freedom station when I'm buzzing the ISD looking for targets? lol

Suggestions welcome.

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Well, the reason I think its bad etiquette to vape someone who doesn't even see you coming is that 90% of the time when you do that, they don't bother coming back. Even if someone is a total noob, if you give them an opportunity to kill you, there's a better chance of them returning for a rematch. The fact is that in JTL, if someone doesn't see you coming, it takes almost zero skill to take them out. I wouldn't even classify it as PvP, since the "versus" part never happened. If you want to do it, go ahead, but personally I don't get any thrill out of it, and I doubt the other person does either. Basically, look at it this way... If you've been flying around for an hour looking for someone to PvP against, wouldn't you rather fight against someone who is going to react and test your skills? All that killing someone who doesn't see you coming accomplishes is to delay an actual PvP encounter for 5 minutes while you wait for the poor sucker to rerun his programs and come back, which most of the time doesn't even happen. If PvP had some sort of global effect on the game, then I could see the arguement for taking out someone that doesn't see you, but right now, the only reason to PvP is for the thrill of PvPing, so what's the point of squandering a PvP chance by boosting in and killing someone before they even know you're their?

Now, that all being said, I think there's a few reasonable exceptions to the rule...

1. If I'm hunting for loot in DS and come across a rebel trying to take out the ISD, I'll kill him without any warning, since letting him take out the ISD clears all the NPC spawns.


2. If I'm not actively looking for PvP, andI'm instead farming faction or loot, I'll go after someone without warning, since I don't want to have to keep looking over my back to see if they've decided to come after me.


3. If I come across a group of players that I'm fairly certain are looking for PvP, I'll go at them without warning, since they already have a numerical advantage, and I can use the death of one of them as the wake up call to the others.

Generally, the way I try to get the attention of someone who doesn't see me is to target them and then hit escape a dozen or so times in a row while closing on them. Most people realize there's another player in the area when they hear the targetting beep 10+ times in a row.

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Uhhh ok. You're exceptions to your "don't shoot them in the back" rule kind of kills that rule completely don't you think. Unless I'm reading it wrong. You either sneak kill or you don't. No need to justify it either way. It's not like loadkilling.

Blasting an overt who isn't aware of you doesn't take skill. I agree. However, it does take skill to be aware of your environment. Natural Sellection. Stay alert, stay alive. All that good stuff. It's not my fault that the other guy, noob or not, wasn't paying attention. I've paid the price for my lack of situational awareness more than a few times.

In my rule book the first kill is the worst kill. I don't know you, I don't what you've got on your ship, I don't know your skill level is. If you are red then I treat you as an unkown hostile, armed and dangerous, bringer of death, who flies an RGI loaded with space bombs 85 PYR 120 speed engine, and EP3, and I am going to come after you with everything I've got. Missiles first, blasters to finish, /salute to follow. 99.9% of the time the /tells that follow will be an invitation to set up a more skilled and civilized match. No missiles, set meeting place and so on. Then after that you've just got yourself a new sparring friend. If they guy whines then I don't want him in my vacuum anyway. Space should be quick harsh and deadly. Playing pattycake with noob pilots will only make them soft and take them longer to train. Start hard and you'llbe able to train a hard pilot. First lesson...situational awareness.