Pilot Archive
Thread: FORCE SENSITIVE CONVERSION RATE
Message Edited by Nifty on 12-21-2004 01:26 PM
I can pull down 900k weapons xp and 90k combat xp in an hour, whats your point.
Furthermore, I do it semi AFK - I drive to a lair, push a macro that gets off my bike, hits the lair hard a few times with a direct attack, then starts to spin attack it. When its finished, I push another macro that gets me back on my bike, and off I go.
AnzelVincir wrote:
Let me be very clear here. I don't want to see FS skills in any way effect space or JTL. However JTL and SWG are not completely disconnected systems. When you die in space you take wounds the same as when you die on the ground. When you spend credits in space or when you buy your ship and its components you are using the same credits that you earned on the ground or vice versa. Furthermore you can grind FPs in space and then use them on the ground or even convert them to FS.
I would argue that they are completely disconnected with some very artificial "bridges" that only barely ties them together, credits and wounds being the main part of those tiny, small bridges.
While it is true that you can grind FPs in space and convert that to ground XP to further convert into FS xp, I would say it's very easy to ignore this. The insane amount of hours you would have to spend doing this pretty much rules this out completely. That's not to say that some nutters out there will actually do it though...
AnzelVincir wrote:
We can argue the relationship of various systems till the next year's Life Day but let's be very very honest with each other here. The purpose of the FS system is to discourage people from becoming Jedi. SOE put themselves in a real pickle with the whole Jedi thing. The policy went from "We won't see any Jedi for several years" to "Well... There'll be one or two per server" to "Here's some free Holocrons" to "Let's have 70% of the community become Jedi"
I disagree. The purpose of the Hologrind was to discourage and keep people from becoming Jedi easily. This system was revamped to discourage and keep people from becoming Jedi easily while still keeping it storybased and tied together in the new FS system.
I think the policy went from: "We won't see any Jedi for several years" to "Well... There'll be one or two per server" to "Dewd, the marketing people tells us Jedi sells, let's hand out Holocrons!!!!!!1111" to "Uh-oh, we fudged up..."... 
Yes, that's true. But if the DEVs start giving leeway and allow people to trade in prestige/space combat xp for FS xp, the next thing we'll see is Jedi/FS skills in space. "We can trade in prestige for FS xp, why can't our skills affect our piloting?". The saddest part is that these skills would probably be added way before entertainers have any way of doing the quest for their FS skill line and the XP they can convert...
AnzelVincir wrote:
Again, one hour of gameplay is one hour of gameplay. Blasting B-Wings in my TIE just feels a whole lot more like Star Wars than punching dogs on Dant...
Marzuk147 wrote:
"The main problem is that getting XP in space is so easy, and the fact that grouped XP still counts as yours, you'd need to have a huge conversion ratio. I can probably get 400-500k an hour in Kessel, maybe much more in a group."
I can pull down 900k weapons xp and 90k combat xp in an hour, whats your point.
Furthermore, I do it semi AFK - I drive to a lair, push a macro that gets off my bike, hits the lair hard a few times with a direct attack, then starts to spin attack it. When its finished, I push another macro that gets me back on my bike, and off I go.
"maybe much more in a group" means a number of skilled players with high level shipscan easily pull in much, much more than 500k an hour in Kessel - so how do you change the fs xp ratio to cope with this? Do you set it to cope with 5 players? What about 10? What about a group of 20? You'd have to change the XP system in space, and that I would definitely oppose. So it's not as easy as "x hours grinding = y hours force xp".
It is radically different to the ground game, where you will get 5k max per creature and this is shared amongst combatants. In space, 20 people could take on a 33k gunship in kessel and theoretically all get 33k, gated only by the amount of time it took all 20 to get a shot in. How does this compare to the solo grinder in space who can only do one every few minutes? Or the tier 4 pilot who can only get 4-5k every few minutes?
It's not comparable, and I now realise this is why you can't convert force xp from prestige/pilot xp.
Furthermore, I do it semi AFK - I drive to a lair, push a macro that gets off my bike, hits the lair hard a few times with a direct attack, then starts to spin attack it. When its finished, I push another macro that gets me back on my bike, and off I go.
Well done.Here, have a cookie ---> Ô
First, xp is split between members on a multiplayer ship. Secondly, there is no way to macro space with the in game tool. Best you can do is use an epulse once every so often and maybe kill a tier 3 ship. That makes this statement totally irrelevant, and it was not very well thought out.
Do you set it to cope with 5 players? What about 10? What about a group of 20? You'd have to change the XP system in space, and that I would definitely oppose. So it's not as easy as "x hours grinding = y hours force xp"."
Have you ever bothered to try what you suggest here? You would spend more time coordinating it than you would actually earning experiance. Even with 2 pilots, disabling and swapping off, it clutters the radar, slows down target recognition, and it will take you longer to kill everything. The only way this helps is if people who have poor components group and assist each other, they will get more xp yes, but you will find that this does not at all apply at all later on. I pop tier 4s and 5s as quickly as I get to them - nothing you can do can increase that, and I STILL earn more xp on ground while half afk. You need a better arguement than this.
"It is radically different to the ground game, where you will get 5k max per creature and this is shared amongst combatants. In space, 20 people could take on a 33k gunship in kessel and theoretically all get 33k, gated only by the amount of time it took all 20 to get a shot in. How does this compare to the solo grinder in space who can only do one every few minutes? Or the tier 4 pilot who can only get 4-5k every few minutes?"
Found that many gunships? I thought not. Whoopy. Even if you all went to deep space, this would be a cumbersome mess. You would have to actually coordinate this many people effectively to get it to work, and even then, I can kill 4-6 ships and have the same xp, and as a single person, Id bet that I can do that faster than your 20 people will take down a gunboat, because of slow people, half afk people, ect. If you have EVER tried to coordinate more than a small group of people you would know that it usually works horribly. Even if everyone moves from ship to ship and gunboat to gunboat with machine like precision, 20 people wont even get a shot in, and even if they did there are not enough ships to make it worth it.
IMO The best way to earn xp in space is to get a very well equipped ship, and fly easy duty missions, and Ive done A LOT of that.
"It's not comparable, and I now realise this is why you can't convert force xp from prestige/pilot xp."
Your realisation is based soley on flawed statements. If you can actually demonstrate that you can exploit the space system to earn outrageous xp, Id like to see it. I want to know how much xp you can earn in an hour, in whatever method you choose, Im willing to bet that you wont pull as much as you think you can.
Sounds fairly easy to demonstrate. It's easy to solo a Tier 5 gunboat for 33k prestige ina few minutes. A full group should get the job done in a few seconds. Rince repeat, obscene amounts of XP.
Marzuk147 wrote:
If you can actually demonstrate that you can exploit the space system to earn outrageous xp, Id like to see it. I want to know how much xp you can earn in an hour, in whatever method you choose, Im willing to bet that you wont pull as much as you think you can.
Message Edited by Vicotnik on 12-22-2004 05:51 AM
And yes, there are spots where you can find loads of easy access, respawning Tier 5 gunboats."
Ive never seen a spot with enough tier 5 gunboats to allow a person to make more than I can solo. If you can direct me to such a point so that I can check it out myself Id be happy to.
Nothing short of a consistantly immediately respawning tier 5 gunboat would do the trick though.
AnzelVincir wrote:
We can argue the relationship of various systems till the next year's Life Day but let's be very very honest with each other here. The purpose of the FS system is to discourage people from becoming Jedi. SOE put themselves in a real pickle with the whole Jedi thing. The policy went from "We won't see any Jedi for several years" to "Well... There'll be one or two per server" to "Here's some free Holocrons" to "Let's have 70% of the community become Jedi"
Again, one hour of gameplay is one hour of gameplay. Blasting B-Wings in my TIE just feels a whole lot more like Star Wars than punching dogs on Dant...
Because I dont want to have you, or other FS grinders like you, camping spawnpoints, going AKF in MP ships, and basically filling with skys macro's pulling in prestege pointsto fuel your ground based FS skills.
Also, its a slippery slope. If space expwas convertable, the next argument would be thatJedi should getspace based skills. Because after all, you were able to get all your FS skills from space. Can I hear a Hell No!
I stand my my origional statement.
Keep Jedi, and everything to do with Jedi, completely out of space
Marzuk147 wrote:
Have you ever bothered to try what you suggest here? You would spend more time coordinating it than you would actually earning experiance. Even with 2 pilots, disabling and swapping off, it clutters the radar, slows down target recognition, and it will take you longer to kill everything. The only way this helps is if people who have poor components group and assist each other, they will get more xp yes, but you will find that this does not at all apply at all later on. I pop tier 4s and 5s as quickly as I get to them - nothing you can do can increase that, and I STILL earn more xp on ground while half afk. You need a better arguement than this.
You can eachknock out a component just enough to ensure you get pilot XP. You could probably just fly past it and hose a gunship in one pass if there are enough of you. Organising a big group is only a pain if the people in your group are idiots. If this is a problem, get better group members.
Marzuk147 wrote:
"It is radically different to the ground game, where you will get 5k max per creature and this is shared amongst combatants. In space, 20 people could take on a 33k gunship in kessel and theoretically all get 33k, gated only by the amount of time it took all 20 to get a shot in. How does this compare to the solo grinder in space who can only do one every few minutes? Or the tier 4 pilot who can only get 4-5k every few minutes?"
Found that many gunships? I thought not.
Yes. In Kessel, with the range on full, you are pretty much guaranteed for a gunboat always to be in range. If your team is organised then you can split up and disable them (as well as other escort craft) and all are guaranteed good xp. But see below, you have missed the point.
Marzuk147 wrote:
Your realisation is based soley on flawed statements. If you can actually demonstrate that you can exploit the space system to earn outrageous xp, Id like to see it. I want to know how much xp you can earn in an hour, in whatever method you choose, Im willing to bet that you wont pull as much as you think you can.
The ground game is specifically set up so that NO player can get more than 5k per creature, and the exact amount depends on the amount of damage you do.
As such, you can pretty much guarantee that no player will be able to get more than about 900k/90k per hour killing creatures. Therefore, you can set the conversion ratio to effectively gate the amount of time it takes people to get FS boxes. The hardcore people will do a box in x hours, the less hardcore people will do it in x/2, and so on. To do this, you pretty much have to be a master combat profession, buffed, willing for weapons to decay and incur other similar costs. There will be little variation in the max XP people can get, once they are a master profession (unless they are exploiting bugged spawns etc)
In space there is no such guarantee or costs. You might get the tier 1 pilot who is happy to tag along with a master group and suddenly, he's pulling in 33k for a gunboat when all he did was fire on it a few times once weapons+engines were down.Is this an exploit? Probably not. But it means that people caneasilyadvance through the FS tree without even being a master pilot.
The equivalent is the unbuffed, unarmoured novice brawler doing a bit of damage to kill a rancor (when someone else had put it down to1 HAM and kd/dizzy)but getting the full 5k XP for doing it.
To be honest i don't care either way - I'm not going to be grinding FS xp any time soon -all I'm pointing out is the reasons I think the devs haven't let youuse space or prestige XP in the conversions.
(doesn't explain shipwright XP though!)
Acing multiple times successively creates multipliers to xp. When you reach your seventh ace, you're earning xp at four times the normal rate. This would make B-Wings/Oppressors worth damn near as much as the damn VETTE is for single-acers and nugget pilots.
If it ever IS added, expect it to be at an OBSCENE ratio, like 500 or 1000:1.
This has already been explained. It would be prestige to FS, which would avoid any xp concerns you would have with low level pilots leeching or manipulating the bonus system.
As far as manipulating gunboats for xp.. go ahead. You can drive 3k to every target and get everyone there, then wait to make sure everyone has gotten a shot off ect, but again, I honestly dont think that would be this stellar xp myself. I can knock out waves of fighters on a duty mission as fast as they come at me, and these are nonstop for the most part, which I think would be BETTER than your atempt to exploit the xp sharing system.