Pilot Archive
Thread: Which ship is better: Y-wing, or a customied Z-95?
loonatik
Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:38 am
#27
Fidgiter wrote:
loonatik wrote:
While you can [upgrade a Z95], its a waste of money. You could be getting better parts loaded up into a Y-Wing that will last you a lot longer.
Im not sure what you guys are havinga hard time seeing here.
Let's say that at 0100 you buy a Z95 with a m2 engine, m2 reactor, mid-grade weapon, proton and chaff launcher, 2 m1 armor, m1 booster and m1 chaff launcher. This comes out to 130k. You then use this up to 2211 (I did this and it worked great). Throw away or resell the old stuff because it is all obsolete now.
Now let's say that at 1100 you buy a Y-Wing with all m2 gear. This comes out to 210k. You then use this up to 2211 (Which I also believe you can). At this time you buy a Y-Long and fully outfit it. Throw away or resell the old stuff because it is all obsolete now.
What long term gain have you had by the extra 80k you spent on the Y-Wing? The purchase lasted the same exact duration but one was greater than the other. In the short term this 80k extra investment nets more protection at the expense of agility. However, with the loss of agility you kill slower and hit less meaning a net wash.
I'm not sure you understand what we are saying but I also think there is a "Player Style" issue involved. In terms of money the Z95 approach is better and not worse.
The parts you buy are going to cost you the same price. The only difference in cost is the chassis, and the better quality parts you can fit into a Y-Wing FAR FAR outweight the "agility" of the Z-95. Further more, when you do hit 2/2/1/1, you do not have to upgrade to the Longprobe, even if you did, you would only have to buy the chassis. You could then EASILIY use those parts you bought for the normal Y-Wing. Farther than you could use the Z-95 parts. You could also upgrade at your leasuer to the level 5 parts. You may not need a level 5 booster. But your level 3 booster experimented for the Y-Wing (quality, not mass) is going to be just fine. There are plenty of parts just like this. Some people upgrade at every level, some people dont. But as you raise, more and more people do not upgrade.
It is only 20,000 mass, which means, if you try to load it down with all level 3,5,7 parts, you are going to have to make sacrafices to fit into 20k mass.
The point is to skip the first Y-Wing and get the Y-Long at 2211. I don't think anyone is saying that mark 3 gear can be effectively used in a Z95.
Why wait? Why not just buy the gear throw it in the Y-Wing and use that same gear when you hit the long probe? You have MUCH more flexibility and you dont waste money buying parts that are just sub standard (so that they can fit into 20k mass).
Wasting your time with a 20k mass TRAINER SHIP is just pointless. I dont care how well you do with it, you COULD be doing much better.
If you aresaying investing in a1100 Y-Wing is a better investment to get to 2211 than a partially upgraded Z95 I'll disagree for the reasons stated above. The 2211 Y-Long is a good long term investment.
Whats the difference? Really what you are saying is wait until level 5 parts to upgrade. Not Y-Wing or Long Probe, because its the same ship. The only difference is you get one more weapon port. (due to not having a multiperson).
I further disagree with this, because buying the parts for the Y-Wing will allow those parts to last longer and cost you less in the long run. I make ships for people very day, I tell them not to even bother coming to me until they hit 1/1/0/0 because there is just flat out no need to. I then build them a ship that lasts them WELL into level 5, and this allows them to upgrade to level 5 parts as they need it. Its much more cost effective this way.
Another bonus to using the Y-Wing is your lower level friends can get mad xp with you as you fly.
Message Edited by loonatik on 11-08-2004 12:44 PM
Fidgiter
Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:50 am
#28
It appears that we will just have to agree to disagree Loonatik. I've stated my position as clearly and with as much supporting detail as I could and do not see the need to get into an arguement over it.
I will responde to only one comment:
Whats the difference? Really what you are saying is wait until level 5 parts to upgrade. Not Y-Wing or Long Probe, because its the same ship.
The Y-Long has 2 guns and 2 missiles compared to the Y-Wing 2 guns and 1 missile. With the Y-Long the Turret gun can be locked foward resulting in 100% more firepower than the Y-Wing or, when there is a person in the turret, 75% more firepower.
Message Edited by Fidgiter on 11-08-2004 11:01 AM
DeQuosaek
Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:19 pm
#29
loonatik wrote:
If you are selling your chassis for less than what you can sell your resources for, you are throwing away your money. Not only are you not getting the value out of your resources you are not charging anything for your time and effort.
I'm not throwing away money. I'm building a customer base.
Who cares what the costs of the blueprints are? The expense is not in the chassis, its in the components. If you are trying to squeeze into 20k mass with level 3,5 and 7 parts you are going to have to get them made differently then if you were going to fit them into a x-wing, a-wing, or y-wing.
If you could get an X-Wing or an A-Wing or use level7 parts, why would you be flying a Z-95 or a Y-Wing? I'm not proposing you fly a Z-95 all the way to master pilot. I think the question "Which ship is better: Y-Wing or a customized Z-95?" is pretty much only relevant through tier 2. As a tier 1 pilot, in my opinion, the Z-95 handles much better and you can't use anything higher than level 3 components anyway, so it is better at that point.
Bottom Line, the Z-95 is the TRAINER ship. Nothing more. Its not designed to last you up in the levels. Sure, you can get the chassis really really cheap, but the components will have to be made special for 20k mass and will not be of use to you when you move into a larger ship. Why waste your money on those parts, just buy the better parts that will fit into a Y-Wing and get just as good if not better performance.
I'm certainly not saying you should still use the Z-95 after you can use better parts and better ships than the Y-Wing. I'm talking mainly about when youtrain your first skill and you have the choice of a Z-95 or a Y-Wing.It'spretty much unnecessary to get a Y-Wing until you can use level 5 parts.
My short answer is that when you are first able to use a Y-Wing,a customizedZ-95 is better. (In my opinion)
paco1001
Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:29 pm
#30
As a concensus, i believe it depends mostly on your play style...i had trouble adapting with the ywing's sluggish movesfirst, but now i find it quite good...i havent tried another headhunter...but it will be hard to say goodbye when i switch to xwing...the longprobe is quite great...with a good capacitor, the ion/blaster barrage is quite deadly..
MasterMind013
Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:30 pm
#31
Couple things guys...
First off, unless I really missed something, Z-95's top out at 13K mass. Get yourself the best components and craft one. I have never seen any that are 20K in the live game.
Secondly, it is completely possible to do to at least 2/2/1/1 in a nicely decked out Z-95. There is no point in the regular Y-Wing unless you can't fit what you want in a Z-95. Because you have the same number of weapons, just more mass. You aren't any stronger, just less manueverable.
Once you hit that 2/2/1/1 spot you have access to some really nice components. If you have the cash, a good Shipwright can make you some nice weapons, shields, armor and a reactor. The rest of the stuff is better looted. Basically once you hit that point, you are building a tank. You will be a high damage/high defense ship that is slow to accelerate and turns worse than a bus.
With the Z-95 you'll pick your components for their low mass. For the Y-wing Longprobe, your reactor will limit what you can put in.
Face it guys, there is no one perfect ship for everyone. It will depend on how you play, what loot you have and how much cash you want to shell out.
Val_Hunter
Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:13 pm
#32
I find that sticking with the smaller ship is much better until your into tier 2 missions. Take components first and modify your Z-95 as heavily as you can.
The problem with moving to the y-wing is similar to my mistake moving to the dunelizard early. You have a ship which COULD equip a lot more, but you don't have to equipment for it. So you end up with a less manuverable version of what you would have in your z-95.
Also, keep in mind the Y-wing is designed for 2 people. If you have a 2nd person, it is probably superior. If not, you're losing a lot of the advantage of the ship.
The chassis line is different than the others in that the newest ship you unlocked isn't neccesarily better. I'm almost done with my tier 3 missions and I'm still using my dunelizzard (teir 1 ship).
The problem with moving to the y-wing is similar to my mistake moving to the dunelizard early. You have a ship which COULD equip a lot more, but you don't have to equipment for it. So you end up with a less manuverable version of what you would have in your z-95.
Also, keep in mind the Y-wing is designed for 2 people. If you have a 2nd person, it is probably superior. If not, you're losing a lot of the advantage of the ship.
The chassis line is different than the others in that the newest ship you unlocked isn't neccesarily better. I'm almost done with my tier 3 missions and I'm still using my dunelizzard (teir 1 ship).
CerionSkydreamer
Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:44 pm
#33
loonatik wrote:we are talking a z-95 people. This is not like a X-Wing vs Y-Wing... The Z-95 is the base line ship. The only reason you would buy one is to have hyperspace at low levels. If you want to change to a lower mass better ship, go for the A-Wing or X-Wing, ect.. Thats when the comparison begins.
I beg to differ loonatik. The z95 is a great ship that can carry you through tier 2 missions. And, as implied by the original poster, some do not have the option to choose A wings or X wings yet. Hyperspace is certainly not the only reason to buy one. Of course the A wing is better than the z95--that's a no brainer, if you have the choice that is.
Ke_la
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:04 am
#34
Oh really ? Tier 2? Wow. Thats far...
Theres no reason to waste your money on buying this ship from a shipwright. It has sucha low mass and you can easily complete the missions to get yourself into a y-wing equiped with all level 3 parts. You can then use that ship to take you way farther. You spend less money. You can even upgrade it into level 5 or even level 7 parts if you felt like it.
And of course an a-wing is better? It has less mass than a y-wing, what I was saying is that its a better comparison. Trying to compare the z-95 to the y-wing is pointless. Its a TRAINER ship. Nothing more. You will not see people flying z-95's at master.
Tier 2 is where you get the Y-wing LONGPROBE wich is FAR supurior to both the z95 and a sans Gunner Normal Y-wing. remember you can only use parts up to Level 3 until Tier 2 and the Longprobe as well so Mass at that point is not an Issue. Now at 1111 when you can choose between the Longprobe and the z95 your argument is more then correct. your goal with the z95 is to get to2111 and get the Longprobe. be cause if you get the the normal Y-wing you WILL want to upgrade to the Longprobe.
and don't compare the three ships at the bottom of the class to the ones at the top. the A-wing,X-wing are far suprior to the Y-wing in nearly everyway now if you want to bring the B-wing into it that is another story.
the Z95 1 gun 1 missil somewhat weak shealds (can be cominsated for with a good loot reactor (I had a tier 1 with 11722 energy and like 1200mass it was nuts and got me though to Tier 3)
the Y-wing 1 gun (second needs a gunner) 1 missial somewhat stronger shields(we are still talking lvl 2/3 max here) SLOW and Can't turn with out a VERY good engine.
and remember your going up against TIE fighters the Y-wing was desinged to attack Capital Ships there is a big differance there.
Both the Y and the Z95 are old out dated ships. That is why only Pirates and the Rebelion use them.
Ke_la
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:19 am
#35
While you can, its a waste of money. You could be getting better parts loaded up into a Y-Wing that will last you a lot longer.
Im not sure what you guys are havinga hard time seeing here.
It is only 20,000 mass, which means, if you try to load it down with all level 3,5,7 parts, you are going to have to make sacrafices to fit into 20k mass.It will haveto bemade differently than if you just put them into a Y-Wing or any other rebel craft.
Lets say you were at level 3, you could easily throw a full set of level 3's experimented for quality not mass reduction, and get much better performance out of a Y-Wing than if you got level 3 parts experimented to fit into 20k mass. Furthermore, if you upgraded to a X-Wing, those parts would easily fit its 100k mass.
Wasting your time with a 20k mass TRAINER SHIP is just pointless. I dont care how well you do with it, you COULD be doing much better.
What your haveing a hard time seeing is there are 2 Y-wings the Longprobe and the Normal. What were sugjesting is buying a z95 at 20-40k each instead of the NORMAL Ywing at 120k+ each. Then when at 2111 geting the Far supurior LONGPROBE Y-wing wich has 160-180 mas and 2 Guns and 2 Missial lauchers at the Pilots Control. Unlike the Normal Y wich has only 1 gun and 1 missial at the Pilots Control (same as the z95) wich makes Mass less of an issue.
Your way Save 20-40k buy not buying the z95 and geting the Normal y-wing at 120-160k then buy the Longprobe a FAR supruior Y-wing (2 guns 2 missials) at 160k-250K so your way costs about 280k using the lowend prices.
My way spend the 20-40k on a z95 and keep it til you can get the Longprobe my way costs180k using the lowend pricing
Which is Cheaper?
I would say mine by about 100k.
I am not argueing that the Y-wing LONGPROBE is not superior and infact IF you can get a gunner and don't mind spliting the XP the Normal Y-wing is better. BUT without a gunner (wich is the most likly siduation, you both get more XP if your wingmen) the Y-wing NORMAL is just a SLOW z95 with SLIGHTLY better shields.
Ke_la
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:37 am
#36
Who cares what the costs of the blueprints are? The expense is not in the chassis, its in the components. If you are trying to squeeze into 20k mass with level 3,5 and 7 parts you are going to have to get them made differently then if you were going to fit them into a x-wing, a-wing, or y-wing.
MORON who said you should put lvl 5 or 7 Parts in a z95 YOU CAN"T all we are saying is UNTIL YOU CAN GET THE Y-WING LONGPROBE. Stick with the Z95 as it is better consitering you won't have mass issues with loot componats in the z95.
ok here it is the MY sugjested progression as you will be deleting the Y-wing too once you master and get the B-wing. After the equils sign is my sugjested ship I am currently a 3333 reb pilot so I will stop there
0000 = z95
0100 = z95
0110 = z95(to get IFF wich is VERY handy)
x11x = z95(don't really matter but droids does give shield control)
1111 = z95
1211 = z95(you can't use the good componats til now)
2211 = Y-wing LONGPROBE
2221 = Y-wing LONGPROBE Eshield and Erepair is nice to have if you get in over your head
2222 = Y-wing LONGPROBE
3222 = X-wing
3322= X-wing
3332 = X-wing
3333 = X-wing
From this point forward ship Preferance would be based on Fighting Style If you want monuverablity and Power get the X-wing.
IF you want to be a Wallowing Pig Blind Pig with a SHell go with the Y-wing. If you want to be a Weak Hyper-monuverable Speed Deamon(base on specutlation) go with the A-wing. If you want the Shelds, Weopons and Power to take on a Capitol Ship choose the B-wing.
Jagged-F3l
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:47 am
#37
I haven't seen anyone mention anything about the fact that a Y-wing can carry a second player and that this player has control over the turret weapon. In my opinion, this can be the Y-wing a unique edge, despite the fact that is maneveurs like a pig 
Ke_la
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:49 am
#38
As a concensus, i believe it depends mostly on your play style...i had trouble adapting with the ywing's sluggish movesfirst, but now i find it quite good...i havent tried another headhunter...but it will be hard to say goodbye when i switch to xwing...the longprobe is quite great...with a good capacitor, the ion/blaster barrage is quite deadly..
with the X-wing you traide in 1 missal Launcher and about 60-80k Mass for VERY High Monuverablity(comparitively) and a Third Gun Slot. A Far trade IMO.
THe Y-wing and below just can't hold a candle to the x-wing. Now the B-wing on the otherhand I don't know I really can't wait for that
MasterMind013
Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:52 am
#39
All I have to say about the second player in the Y-wing is "Try it". You are constantly fighting the pilot. Trying to track your target. You can shoot the whole way around but your vertical range is very limited. And if the pilot doesn't fly just right, you are worthless in that gunners seat.
Plus, you are dependant on finding another player to fly with you.