Pilot Archive
Thread: Down with the PVP damage!!! /BangDrums
Skuzz
Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:39 am
#14
Something needs to be done with PvP damage, thats for sure. I think im in favor of boosting MP ships defensive abilities (ie; shields and armor) and leaving fighters how they are. it does jive very very well with the movies to see fighters pop in 1-3 hits. But MP ships are just hosed at present in PvE and PvP.
I was at a spawn and a MP ship arrived there, it wasnt happy that it had to share the spawn with me and a friend. They challenged my bud, so i challenged them. hit em 3 times in my first approach and -poof- they were gone. I couldnt believe how fast they died. I have pretty serious guns on my Rix but come on, a MP ship should at the very least be able to survive a single pass by a single fighter. *rolls eyes*
I was at a spawn and a MP ship arrived there, it wasnt happy that it had to share the spawn with me and a friend. They challenged my bud, so i challenged them. hit em 3 times in my first approach and -poof- they were gone. I couldnt believe how fast they died. I have pretty serious guns on my Rix but come on, a MP ship should at the very least be able to survive a single pass by a single fighter. *rolls eyes*
Elan_Nossirah
Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:17 pm
#15
IMHO PvP is totally whack right now. It's almost pointless. There's not even any incentive to do it really.
Yesterday I decided to go overt and just hunt around for others who were also overt(usually people collecting faction points). It wasn't really a challenge. Most of the time my prey were caught completely off guard. Even those who actually saw me before i got within guns range, I was able to get the first shot in. The key word being shot. It usually only takes 1-2 shots from my x-wing to kill a player. I only got into one minor dogfight and waskilledbecause i did a bonehead thing and accidentally engaged my boosters which killed my turning capability. I took one hit and insta-death. Even if I'm on the winning end, it's boring. I want to work for the kill. Maybe have some use for some of my droid commands. Really, what fun is there in killing someone in 1-2 shots? Yeah, I may have a pretty nice ship with some decent firepower, but I don't think I have the best. I'm certainly not uber or anything. And yet, it can sometimes seem to take forever to kill a Tier 5 NPC Tie. If anything a player should always be much more difficult to kill than any NPC unless they are just really low level without a good ship.
I want PvP to be challenging and rewarding. I want to possibly engage several players and maybe, just maybe have a fighting chance. I also want there to be some kind of reason to engage in PvP. Perhaps some kind or reward system and/or ranking ala faction points. Maybe a pilot can save and use those points for something. Maybe some kind of pilot rank like working up to a General or Admiral or something.
I just think there is so much potential for the space game to be better with richer content.
Rogue1970
Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:35 pm
#16
I think I'm going to have to go with the consensus of a further reduction in PvP damageAND a boost to MP ship defenses.
A ship with a minimum crew of 4 people should also have the defenses of at least 2 player ships, not 3-4 ships tho as they have the advantage of repairing components.
I'd suggesta second layer of armor goes behind the components that can be damaged and need repairing, so things still get damaged, but you will have another layer of armor to go through before destruction. A secondary shield also makes sense on a MP ship, it just can't run from a fight if needed and it definately can't maneuver. Increasing the average hitpoints on a MP ship to around 5k would also make sense, maybe with a doubling of the resource costs on the MP ships ONLY to compensate. Using the same 150k resources for a B-wing or a Nova Cruiser makes no sense to anyone anyway. (I'm a shipwright too, and have no problem with this increase - it would raise the prices to about 1.5mil-2mil for a MP ship @ 5-7cpu tho)
Then maybe we'll see people grouping to take out MP ships, rather than solo-ing them.
It also makes them slightly more worth using, as you barely see them in PvP now. They are too cool of an experienceto not be made worth having and using. Right now they are so buggy and gimped, I'll only use them for PVE and rarely at that - you have to redeed it after every use to turn the alarm offpractically.
Another suggestion would be to add missile/countermeasure loaders with 200k mass that will only fit in the large MP ships, but thats another topic.
vampari
Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:56 pm
#17
Each of my 2 guns does 4.5k damage vefore reduction --BOOM !
00over0 wrote:
My crafted cert 9 shields areabout 3k in str front and back.
S-1-l2-H-C wrote:
either the damage needs to come down more, or the higher lvl shields/armor need a serious buff. i personaly think that shiedl strength should go up propotionaly with the mass with highers lvls. i find it funny that a shield with a mass of 7000 can have a strength of 1300 but ive never seen a 70000 mass lvl10 shield over 2000. the lvl10 shield should have the potential for 10 times the stength compared to the lvl5 shield since it has 10 times the mass. i personaly like the fightervsfighter damage as is, but heavy attack ships need more protection.
fareone
Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:14 am
#18
deep space sux ..no fun .... one shot dead ..or using epulse and jtl dant. and thna when u chrge ur epulse renter deep spcae what a funnn..real dogfight ..ayii ..today one a wing killed us ( yt) with one shot...is it fun?
Scoooter
Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:29 am
#19
Stop the "No pvp nerf whining".
Lets face it space pvp is bpring itt is reduced to the a-wing, kihraz, and the tie advanced.
Everything is a one or two shot kill.
It's great there is no decay now, that was needed.
But lets face it larger chassis place is to sacrifice maneuverability for higher firepower and durability. The current pvp model does not support that. There is on reason to take any other chassis than listed above.
The original poster is correct.
There needs to be a balance. We dont want two light fighters having a boring 30 shot circle fest but at the same time we dont want YT-1300's, Decimators and Novas going down in 1 or 2 shots from a single gun light fighter when they have level 9 and 10 shields and armor.
A balance needs to be achieved, whether it be a damage reduction or by an increase in shield and armor stats.
Maybe an answer is a pvp modifier by chassis type.
Something needs to be done, the variety of chassis uses will be good for pvp.
Lets face it space pvp is bpring itt is reduced to the a-wing, kihraz, and the tie advanced.
Everything is a one or two shot kill.
It's great there is no decay now, that was needed.
But lets face it larger chassis place is to sacrifice maneuverability for higher firepower and durability. The current pvp model does not support that. There is on reason to take any other chassis than listed above.
The original poster is correct.
There needs to be a balance. We dont want two light fighters having a boring 30 shot circle fest but at the same time we dont want YT-1300's, Decimators and Novas going down in 1 or 2 shots from a single gun light fighter when they have level 9 and 10 shields and armor.
A balance needs to be achieved, whether it be a damage reduction or by an increase in shield and armor stats.
Maybe an answer is a pvp modifier by chassis type.
Something needs to be done, the variety of chassis uses will be good for pvp.
Halyn
Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:20 am
#20
Multiplayer ships need some kind of reworking to make them more viable, yes. But leave starfighters alone.
Why?
Starsider is one of the few (if only) servers to have organized space wars. Rebel vs. Imp. Flying into combat there...well, it has a very Star Wars feel to it, knowing that you can die if you make a mistake. Even if I can one or two-shot a TIE, that becomes difficult to do in a large combat situation. I had a dogfight with a TIE Oppressor in my X-wing (yes, I use X-wings...they are viable for PvP. Most of my guild uses 'em, and we took no losses in the last battle) that lasted a good thirty-forty seconds because we were both maneuvering.
Head-to-head=dead. Good pilots understand that they shouldn't fly in a straight line, even if going head-to-head. The old school pilots, the veterans of XvT and XWA, understand this well. The trick with a head-to-head is never to fly in a straight line. 
If you people would use more tactics and less stupidity while flying, you'd understand that starfighters don't need to be changed. MP ships, yes; starfighters, no.
And there shouldn't *be* a reason to fly a Y-wing or B-wing or other heavy ship into PvP. They aren't designed for dogfights. They should be very effective against freighters, but not against other starfighters.
"--Michael Stackpole, RS IRC
Diopter
Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:00 am
#21
Didn't everyone in the movies get wasted in 1 or 2 shots anyway? 
rexan
Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:12 am
#22
Burnham wrote:
When an A-wing or a TIE Advanced can one/two-shot a ship carrying lvl 10 shields and armor, it's time for the damage to go down. If the light starfighters can destroy a heavy ship so easily, there is no place in PvP for the heavy ships. Down with the pvp damage!!!
I'm not sure that lowering the damage output from weapon would solve the problem. I think part of the issue comes from the fact that defence is very week. Ive noticed Mk4 shields giving 1700 points of protection. at around 15k mass. Whereas MK5 shields only give 2000 protecting at 35k mass. Thats a huge investment in mass for very minor returns on protection.
Well see how it works. Im sure there is a good and fun solution out there. Just not sure what it is yet.
GrupertRHD
Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:06 pm
#23
Better way is to assign to ships and weapons a classifaction system.
Lightweight weapons and ships would be limited to be able to carry weapons of a certain damage range. Example would be A-Wing could carry Class A-B, X-Wing B-D and so forth.
In other words, the A-Wing could carry 1 medium damage weapon, or 2 rapid fire, but low damage weapons.....
Same could done with armor and sheilds, it should not be possible for a tiny ship like for a TIE or A-Wing to carry capital ship class weapons, armor and sheilds....
Weapons should scale with ship size, simple as that.
Lightweight weapons and ships would be limited to be able to carry weapons of a certain damage range. Example would be A-Wing could carry Class A-B, X-Wing B-D and so forth.
In other words, the A-Wing could carry 1 medium damage weapon, or 2 rapid fire, but low damage weapons.....
Same could done with armor and sheilds, it should not be possible for a tiny ship like for a TIE or A-Wing to carry capital ship class weapons, armor and sheilds....
Weapons should scale with ship size, simple as that.
Golrok
Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:20 pm
#24
Imaridril wrote:
Sorry, but the original poster is right. PvP in JTL needs further damage reduction. The math right now is completely out of wack. Currently in the game even the lightest single gun fighters can destroy the heaviest multi-gun fighters in only a handfull of shots. There needs to be a reason for a player to want to fly one of the heavier slower fighters. Right now that reason doesn't exsist. If you choose to fly one of the bigger multi-gun fighters in PvP, all you do is make yourself a bigger, slower target. Sure, in exchange for this you get more guns, but all that extra firepower is overkill. There's no reason to have a lot of firepower in PvP because the damage that even a single player gun does is enough to take out any other player in only a small number of hits. Even if everyone is just flying light fighters, the battles still go too quick. I know its fun to pull in behind someone and watch them explode from one or two well aimed shots, but PvP needs to be a two-way street. Battles that last less than 10 to 30 seconds followed by several minutes of repair and travel time are not going to draw people into PvP.
I disagree.Checkout Star WarsBattlefront. Those battles can last only seconds some times but ppl jump right back into them mindlessly over and over. Your not always going to get one shotted but it will always happen sometimes. Its inetivatable. Too many variables involved in this gamefor it not to happen.
example- one second you one shot someone, the next second your inthis even matched fight lasting a good minute, you finally win that fight, then BAM you get one shotted yourself by someone totally else. Oh well. Big deal though. Thats PVP. Its going to happen, but not every time, you know?.
Not every fight hasto be a longdramatic duel, but there willbe thosemixed in.
00over0
Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:24 am
#25
00over0 wrote:
My crafted cert 9 shields areabout 3k in str front and back.
S-1-l2-H-C wrote:
either the damage needs to come down more, or the higher lvl shields/armor need a serious buff. i personaly think that shiedl strength should go up propotionaly with the mass with highers lvls. i find it funny that a shield with a mass of 7000 can have a strength of 1300 but ive never seen a 70000 mass lvl10 shield over 2000. the lvl10 shield should have the potential for 10 times the stength compared to the lvl5 shield since it has 10 times the mass. i personaly like the fightervsfighter damage as is, but heavy attack ships need more protection.
Sadly, I must withdraw this claim. I haven't made any shields in a while and I found tonight that the best I could do was around 2300 or so. I actually have better resources than before, and it could just be that I can't remember clearly at all. It could also be that this was another stealth nerf like crafted engine speeds, though I think others would've noticed if so--but damn if I wouldn't have sworn I could make them around 3k str easily.
