Pilot Archive
Thread: Down with the PVP damage!!! /BangDrums
rexan wrote:
Burnham wrote:
When an A-wing or a TIE Advanced can one/two-shot a ship carrying lvl 10 shields and armor, it's time for the damage to go down. If the light starfighters can destroy a heavy ship so easily, there is no place in PvP for the heavy ships. Down with the pvp damage!!!I'm not sure that lowering the damage output from weapon would solve the problem. I think part of the issue comes from the fact that defence is very week. Ive noticed Mk4 shields giving 1700 points of protection. at around 15k mass. Whereas MK5 shields only give 2000 protecting at 35k mass. Thats a huge investment in mass for very minor returns on protection.
Well see how it works. Im sure there is a good and fun solution out there. Just not sure what it is yet.
Problem is if you increase shield strengths too far you unbalance PVE.
A balance needs to be found to encourage pvp and make all the chassis useful for variety.
The no decay increased pvp but not enough. To encourage it we need to have the distinction of chassis and make the other chassis worth taking.
Diopter wrote:Didn't everyone in the movies get wasted in 1 or 2 shots anyway?
If you are going to compare it to the movies look at how many hits the falcon takes. One or two is about right for the smaller fighters.
If basing it off the movies is valid
Imaridril wrote:
Sorry, but the original poster is right. PvP in JTL needs further damage reduction. The math right now is completely out of wack. Currently in the game even the lightest single gun fighters can destroy the heaviest multi-gun fighters in only a handfull of shots. There needs to be a reason for a player to want to fly one of the heavier slower fighters. Right now that reason doesn't exsist. If you choose to fly one of the bigger multi-gun fighters in PvP, all you do is make yourself a bigger, slower target. Sure, in exchange for this you get more guns, but all that extra firepower is overkill. There's no reason to have a lot of firepower in PvP because the damage that even a single player gun does is enough to take out any other player in only a small number of hits. Even if everyone is just flying light fighters, the battles still go too quick. I know its fun to pull in behind someone and watch them explode from one or two well aimed shots, but PvP needs to be a two-way street. Battles that last less than 10 to 30 seconds followed by several minutes of repair and travel time are not going to draw people into PvP.
PVP is down to who see's who first, that first shot is the last shot... i'm not one to normally call nerf... but...
OR... why dont they reduce the power of NPC ship to be in line with the power of Player ships? and reduce the strengh in wepons even across the board?
it never made sense to me on the ground that Storm Trooper could have 30K HAM, while a player can only have 3K, the game should be balanced so that you do the same amount of damage to both, have the same challenge with out needing "PVP damage reduction".
it wouldnt be that hard a change, Reduce the HAM of NPC ships (same on ground)by a set percentage to make them in line with player ships (and players), reduce the power of all weapons by the SAME percentage, viola! Balanced PVP! no "Nerf" needed!
i like killing my enemies as much as the next guy, but just 1 shotting anyone i see first gets boring.
Golrok wrote:
Imaridril wrote:
Sorry, but the original poster is right. PvP in JTL needs further damage reduction. The math right now is completely out of wack. Currently in the game even the lightest single gun fighters can destroy the heaviest multi-gun fighters in only a handfull of shots. There needs to be a reason for a player to want to fly one of the heavier slower fighters. Right now that reason doesn't exsist. If you choose to fly one of the bigger multi-gun fighters in PvP, all you do is make yourself a bigger, slower target. Sure, in exchange for this you get more guns, but all that extra firepower is overkill. There's no reason to have a lot of firepower in PvP because the damage that even a single player gun does is enough to take out any other player in only a small number of hits. Even if everyone is just flying light fighters, the battles still go too quick. I know its fun to pull in behind someone and watch them explode from one or two well aimed shots, but PvP needs to be a two-way street. Battles that last less than 10 to 30 seconds followed by several minutes of repair and travel time are not going to draw people into PvP.
I disagree.Checkout Star WarsBattlefront. Those battles can last only seconds some times but ppl jump right back into them mindlessly over and over. Your not always going to get one shotted but it will always happen sometimes. Its inetivatable. Too many variables involved in this gamefor it not to happen.
example- one second you one shot someone, the next second your inthis even matched fight lasting a good minute, you finally win that fight, then BAM you get one shotted yourself by someone totally else. Oh well. Big deal though. Thats PVP. Its going to happen, but not every time, you know?.
Not every fight hasto be a longdramatic duel, but there willbe thosemixed in.
The problem is that long fights don't happen unless you're flying a light, fast fighter, or if you're going up against someone with much lower flying skills. There's nothing inheirantly wrong with one-shot kills, except when those one shot kills are being done by the lightly armed, highly manueverable fighters. You bring up Starwars Battlefront, but how rediculous would it be in that game if a speederbike could one-shot or two-shot an AT-AT?
right now pvp fights in space are kinda ridiculess. Its all a 1 second thing cause you shoot your enemys down with 2-6 shots. SOme numbers for this:
We assume you have a 2.5k shield (lvl9or 8) in your ship (thats haevy) and do a shield increase to front giving you a total of 5k shield to front.
Further on we assume your enemy has 2 lvl 7 guns with 2.5k max damage at 0.5 effc and 0.33 (ok normal is perhaps only 0.35) fire rate.
so he puts out 2*2.5k*3* 0.5 = 7.5k in one second. (2 guns 2.5k dam 3shots per second 0.5 eff)
Thats leaving you with zero shield and 2.5k less armor after one second and 3 shots. perhaps you are dead by now as you only head 1k armor.
Summary : 5k shield plus 2k armor = you are dead after 3 hits
We have to reduce the damage by 1/4th cause of the damage reduction which is in effect right now but you are still dead after 4 hits.
I did some dogfighting with friends which are in my squadron. I build a squadron set fo as low as possible lvl 1 guns for it. They do something like 230-370 damage * 0.48.
With these guns its actually really fun to do PvP in space. We have amazing dogfights, which are exciting are not over after one engage, and open the possibility of several tactics especially when doing 2 on 2 or 3 on 3.
Out of these experiences i think it would be a good idea to reduce pvp damage to 10-15%. This would make fights taking about 12-20 hits (with a double cannon means 2 guns). A digfight is taking something like 10secs (if both fly straight onto each other) to 3 mins (two awings which nearly never got a clear shot on each other). But it is great fun this way. I suggest you try this out yourself. ANd i hope we can get the attention of the devs to the topic of some serious damage reduction in pvp in space. Its a better way than rebalacing all the equipment cause you had to rebalance all npcs as well. And i think they are quiet ok as they are now.
SO far
Ceearem Wareign
Mayor of Falkland Naboo Chimaera
Shipwright and Armorsmith
CO Leader of Falcons
Yeah PvP in JTL is something like this.
Oh someone is shooting at................ lovely cut scene of ship exploding.
In a yt-1300 we didn't even get a chance to target the person shooting before we blew up.
Here within lies may people's problem. I have never died in PVP and have killed several other players.I am always overt when in my agressor. I have bound a hotkey to the "Z" key which targets next enemy player. I am constantly hitting this key. If you are faction farming you can still target as usual, just keep hitting the Z key (or whatever key you binded to enemy players) It will only change your target if there is a player in range. I always detect a player when they are 4-5k away. That leaves more than enough time to decide if I want to fight or bug out. If i want to fight I will move in on them and watch their positioning to see if they noticed me. If they turn towards you then you know they are in for the fight as well. In most cases they are like you... not alert and not ready.
In JTL PVP just as in a real war, complacency is your number one killer
complacency: n.
A feeling of contentment or self-satisfaction, especially when coupled with an unawareness of danger, trouble, or controversy.
CeearemWareign wrote:The question is what is more fun. In my opinion real dogfights are much more fun than these insta kills we have now. I like to have dogfights like in the XWIng series. And reducing the pvp damage would not mean that mp-ships will be uber. YOu will need mor shots to kill em, but you hit it much easier than they hit you.I like to have dogfights and reducing pvp damage is easiest way to accomplish this wihtout having to do a total overwhole of equipment and npcs.Btw how do you think Ground pvp would be with one shot kills? That would be like in the films as well. AS far as i know all the Stormtroopers have been killed by one shot, or at least incaped. But for the sake of fun i think its better to have fights which take longer.Ceearem
Ground pvp is broken, as it favors 1-3 classes, the rest are screwed. Turn space into a 25% damage system, and it will favor 1-3 ship types. And fewer people will play it.
It is fine as it is.
It is fine as it is.
Yep, this is the way that it is. The long drawn out dofights you dream of would throw everything out of wack just as it has in the ground game. If you have ever played combat flight simulator or any other kind of sim, you know this to be true.
Try being aware of your surroundings and checking your radar. It will do wonders for your game.