Pilot Archive
Thread: Suggestions for improving the fun of space PvP
Hi all,
Time for (yet another) post full of ideas for improving space, especially PvP in space. These are all interrelated, to some degree.
Problem: Space PvP encounters are too short for most people
Idea: Nerf PvP damage to make the fight last longer (by a flat percentage -- this is a popular idea that I support.)
Idea: Nerf PvP damage, scaled to the tiers of components involved (Similar to damage multipliers for CL on the ground -- Somebody who's invested in really heavy components will get some added effectiveness from them. This would also give some extra purpose to POB ships in PvP. I don't think anybody's suggested this idea before.)
Problem: POB ships have no role in PvP
Idea: Effectiveness multipliers for component tier, as above.
Idea: Super heavy components for POB ships.
Problem: Downtime to get back in the action is long.
Idea: Change overloads so that they're automatically run on launch (no decay for running them at launch). This would mean that your ship is ready to go again as soon as you are. No more waiting for all your overloads to get done before you head to the station to overt again and head to DS. If your DI is shot off, all overload benefits disappear.
Idea: If instant-run overloads and no-decay changes are implemented, allow players killed in PvP to reappear back at the faction station, where they may immediately choose to re-enlist as Overt (or Special Forces) to get back in the action sooner.
Problem: Nobody wants to duel or PvP in normal sectors, due to decay.
Idea: Remove component and chassis decay due to PvP death in all circumstances.
Idea: Remove component decay, for people who are flying Overt.
Idea: Remove component decay altogether, just because nobody really enjoys it.
Idea: If auto-run overloads and tunings are implemented, players who are PvP'ing can have more encounters hunting each other in the same amount of play time.
Problem: No purpose for the "tuning" programs
Idea: Change Tuning programs to instead perform slow, decayless, repairs over time to the affected components. If DI is shot off, all tuning benefits disappear.
Idea: If component decay is otherwise removed, keep decay on overload damage, unless an equal-or-better tuning program is also present.
Idea: Change Tuning to not reduce component effectiveness, and allow it to be run simultaneously with overload to mitigate increased power draw (at the cost of hogging up lots of droid memory, etc).
Problem: Not everybody wants to be subject to PvP while gathering faction in space.
Idea: Implement "combatant" status in space. This will cause occasional extra spawns of hostile NPCs to appear and harass the player, not permit PvP except for duelling. The player may accumulate Faction. In this system, the bonus for being "combatant" is the faction, the penalty is the extra spawns that harass the player regardless of location. Being "special forces" in this system allows (we hope decayless) PvP in all sectors. Players who are "on leave" may still be identified by NPCs as hostiles, if they are flying factional ships, and be attacked. Players "on leave" in factionless ships will not be detected by factional NPCs, which will appear as unattackable white dots. (Pirates and the like will still be hostile as usual.)
Idea: Require "special forces" status to enter Deep Space and any other similar zones in the future. Require "combatant" status for some other zones, perhaps.
Problem: No incentive to PvP -- nothing to show for it
Idea: Badges for counts of PvP kills. (this should be unique kills per day or week or something, to prevent badge farming or space fight-clubbing)
Idea: Wearable medals or factional items for counts of PvP kills.
Idea: change /bomberstrike3 and add a Rebel equivalent, such that they must be purchased with points gained from PvP kills.
Idea: Player Event perks rentable with points gained from PvP kills.
Core Idea: Reduce the downtime for getting into PvP, and back into it after a death. Decrease or eliminate the penalties for losing. Enable consequence-free PvP in all sectors. Make having a bigger gun and heavier armor count for something.
As it stands now, the only way to suffer component damage in PvP after being one-shotted is if someone is deliberately targetting your reactor/engine, or by some miracle hits a component's "hot spot."
One shot kills primarily just damage the chassis yet leave the components alone except in the above cases.
Idea: Implement "combatant" status in space.
Nuh uh. You want faction in space, you overt and take a roll of the die. You get 30-50+ FP per kill in space (from Tier 3 to 5), FAR more than you get on the ground for merely being a combatant and killing an NPC. You get 192FP for a single gunboat that doesn't fire back if you know how to work the distances.
You already are a combatant in space if you're Imperial or Rebel, as their ships will engage you at >1000m. You change this, you kill PvP. Bind Z to one of your accessible joystick buttons or tap it relatively regularly when overt.
No way will the bulk of us allow you to turn space into a riskless faction farm - and before you say "you'll still get jumped!," spare us - Tier 3-5s ain't that hard, and we're used to things jumping us, since the bulk of "professional" pilots run duties long after they don't have to anymore.
Problem: Nobody wants to duel or PvP in normal sectors, due to decay.
Really, then why have the vast majority of my kills been in Kessel post-nerf?
Idea: Remove component and chassis decay due to PvP death in all circumstances.
And here come the Shipwrights..."Hey Chris, I got screwed up real bad and don't wanna repair and lose condition - come up here and kill me."
Idea: Remove component decay, for people who are flying Overt.
About the only way you'd get this is implementing it in Kessel. Plus, for reasons I outlined already, you have to deliberately target or be incredibly unlucky in PvP to suffer anything other than chassis and armor damage.
Idea: Remove component decay altogether, just because nobody really enjoys it.
What's that howling I'd hear from another forum if this were EVER implemented?
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 06-19-2005 04:57 PM
Malcolm_CaKre wrote:
Hi all,
Time for (yet another) post full of ideas for improving space, especially PvP in space. These are all interrelated, to some degree.
Problem: Space PvP encounters are too short for most people
You have some good ideas, unfortunately I desperately wanted to stop reading at your first sentence. Space PVP encounters are not "too short" for "most people". Unless by "most" you mean the vocal. misinformed. minority. of. poor. pilots. (or VMMPP)The statement should read:
"Players new to PVP can sometime have a difficult time adjusting to the disparity in speed between PVE encounters with mediocre equipment and PVP encounters.The lack of pilots overall in space does nothing to alieviate the frustration that avery few easily offended pilots experience."
Disagree? Prove me wrong with hard numbers that show pilots on your server shun PVP because they think it's too fast. It cannot be done. The truth of the matter is if anyone shuns PVP because of it's speed, more than likely they have only PVP'd a few times and likely died confused at each encounter. Excuse me for being so opinionated on the subject, but the fact of the matter is players like you, who come on the forums and preach that people avoid PVP and that PVP is no fun, is no doubt a contributing factor to that minority that shun PVP out of fear. Space PVP is awesome, for lack of a better word to describe it. It is merciless and takes phenomenal skill to excell in, but little skill whatsoever to be medicore. To be a poor pilot, or to shun PVP because it's "too fast" takes phenomenal skill as well, in my opinion. Anyone can get out there in a junk ship and learn, and once they do learn they realize that a battle betweenexperienced pilots israrely is over "too fast".
Occasionally you'll get a person in here who claims that "oh i'm a phenomenal experienced PVP'er but I still think it's too fast, let's do damage reduction." yet to this date I have not heard of a single solitary person in these shoes that put their money where their mouth is and use a level 3 or 5 gun in their ship to prolonge PVP encounters.
Yet to this date I have not hear of a single solitary person who has a solution to the massive problems damage reduction would cause with the balance of the game.
To this date I have not read a single reply from a person who thinks PVP is too fast without also being totally on board with the plethora of other, sensible solutions out there to lengthen PVP by a few shots. I understand if you really think PVP is too fast, but if you think PVP is too fast and you think damage reduction is the way to fix it, you are dead wrong. it would be a devistating blow for PVP.
The fact of the matter is, if you really have tried PVP, and even after playing a small light fighter, really abhorr it's quick pace and unforgiving nature, JTL is not the game for you. Even a massive mitigation across the board would result in fights over far too quick for your taste.
You do have some valid points however, and it's a shame the first part of the post is so horribly misinformed. There is an issue with frequent organized PVP in sectors outside of Deep Space and Kessel. Is it entirely the result of PVP death decay? I really doubt it, but there are things we can do to find out:
1. PVP decay in all sectors should be eliminated. Caviat to this: You can't leave the current absurd dueling system in the game and expect a no decay system to work. The dueling system we have to work with is archaeic, it's grief prone, and it's really below what we all should accept from this mmo. Dueling should reset all components to original values (pre duel) after the duel ends. WoW has an innovative dueling system that is much more friendly and condusive to competition. SWG needs to adopt it, at the very least in space. Hung up on duels to the death? They can include a mutual agreement or a /deathduel option. Who cares.
Another good point is the lack of POB ships in PVP. The devs have shown they are commited to NOT reducing damage by introducing the elite POB equipment, the problem is they are not following through with modifying the equipment to be acceptable in PVE/PVP. The reason for this is up for speculation, I surmise it's the same reason weapon overcharge 3 has been broken for so long.
2. We all need to forget about this mitigation idiocy and push long and hard for the devs to start making real changes to POB armor and shields. ***Especially*** armor, we have shipwrights up in arms about a lack of business and we have a renewable business in POB armor sitting right in front of our noses.
If you are on a server with very little PVP there are a few things you can do, I suggest reading past threads written by people asking for advice on how to start a bit more PVP on your server, but here are a few of my suggestions as well:
1. Go to Deep Space. Nobody there? How do you know? Try to make a conserted effort to go there during different times of the day. Still nobody there? Well hang out within 3km of your opposing faction's base. Why you ask? Well 1, all mobs spawn off the base.Two, plenty of people utilize DS to repair their ships. Say you are in the zone repairing and you notice some opposing faction player flying around. Are you going to run away because you hate PVP or try to take a shot at him? Me too.
2. When you get done killing someone in DS, if they don't come back, tell them 'GG'. If they complain they didn't see you, apologize and tell them you usually hang around the base so they should watch for you. Maybe they don't know how, recommend they map a key to their mouse or joystick for cycling enemy players.
3. Someone likes trash talking? Ignore them and keep trying until you win. There's parity in space folks, and if you are losing every encounter, chances are it's more about your tactics and less about your equipment/ship.
4. Other people of your faction in DS? Group up with them and/or ask them to join their group. Inform them if you seea rebel in the zone. Know a bunch of rebel aces? If someone is guarding the ISD ask them to help you take him/her out.
5. Educate your fellow pilots,Imp and Rebel alikeon the monetary value of Deep Space, there's a lot of faction to be had there, and no other zone has a spawn that can be worked like Deep Space can. The more people that know about it, the more will visit.
You do those5 things for a month and you'll start getting an acceptable amount of PVP in Deep Space. There is not a single day that goes by on Gorath nowadays without at least 1 or 2 fights. Three months ago I'd get fights only in spurts. Keep at it and you'll be amazed at the quality of PVP on your server.
quadpers0n wrote:
good god, that post needs chapters and a table of contents.
Maybe a episode or two as well.
lol Can I buy your book with an autograph 
Nicely written though Quad
Message Edited by xTekx on 06-19-2005 07:44 PM
Malcolm_CaKre wrote:
Idea: Nerf PvP damage to make the fight last longer (by a flat percentage -- this is a
popularcontroversial idea that I support.)
I love these ideas... especially in regards to decay on the quest ships. I have my Vaksai and ARC-170 so weighted down with the armor needed to give me hyper time, and the engines fast enough to make a run for it, I have liitle mass left for good guns and capacitor. Decay has me feeling a little defensive about those ships. Mass isn't an issue with the Y-8, but knowing that once gone it's worth little more than apartment space has me worried. I would like to see chassis decay for quest given PoB ships eliminated altogether.
There has also been rumor of a "Capitol Ships" expansion... and the forums there are pushing for all around beefing up of the massive ships like the corvette that are frankly to easy. The Imp. Star Destroyer is soloable.... and shouldn't be.
My hope for the moment, is that getting more numbers in space for more of a fleet battle experience. Anything the devs can do to make space battle more appealing, with increased fight time... (some PvP battles are a 2 second surprise attack).... and with less devestating decay in normal space... (I agree that for PvP it should be eliminated). This would certainly bring up the numbers.
Kudos to the devs for incorperating space missions into Kashyyyk quests, forcing many players to build on piloting skills.
Hope too see you all out there...
Lumen Airi
Flurry Galaxy
Master Pilot - Master Artisan - 1142 TKA - 0100 CM
psikobunny wrote:
Scobey wrote:
Only thing you need to do for PvP is make the fight longer than 1 hit. 1 hit PvP is a waste of time. My 2500 front and back shields on my Krayt should mean something more than I get 1.5 hits to see myself die. Not a complaint, just a truth. You can't kill a person PvP with one hit on the ground, so why should you be able to in space.
If you're letting yourself get hit by a full volley and dying in "1" hit, then you've done something wrong. Try reformatting your HD and reinstalling.
Pitiful creature, you are...
Scobey wrote:
Only thing you need to do for PvP is make the fight longer than 1 hit. 1 hit PvP is a waste of time. My 2500 front and back shields on my Krayt should mean something more than I get 1.5 hits to see myself die. Not a complaint, just a truth. You can't kill a person PvP with one hit on the ground, so why should you be able to in space.
Because if PvP worked in space as it did on the ground, we'd be circling each other for friggin' hours.