Pilot Archive
Thread: Does the Firespray deserve an upgrade?
Elan_Nossirah
Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:05 pm
#14
Good posts by all.
I totally agree that the FS should not be a carbon copy of Slave 1. But we do also have a fair degree of customization built within the system via REing.
The main issue it seems is convergence and it is not one limited to just the FS. But, perhaps it effects the FS the most because it only has two gun hardpoints so if only one gun is hitting the target you are effectively cutting it's potential down by half. All ships should get a convergence fix that need it. As a FS owner, that would make me very happy.
But still, I think the FS needs a little something extra to set it apart from the rest of the ships in game. I'll go back to the tractor beam idea. What if the FS chassis had a built-in tractor beam that you could use? Let's say it would be like a pilot skill but tied to the ship and it would work in a similar way to /iffscramble. It would be a one shot deal that would instantly disable the engines (and perhaps weaponstoo) of a ship up to say, a gunboat. It would only disable the engines/weapons for a limited time and you wouldn't be able to use it again for about the same amount of time as /iffscramble. There could be some other parameters associated with it in order for it to work like having to be within a certain distance and relative speed to your target or it will fail to "lock on". A failure to lock on would exhaust the command so you would have to wait until you are ready to execute another pilot command to use it again. That way it would also require some skill in order to actually use it effectively. It would not be a uber weapon but not just a novelty either.
Pharrel
Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:33 pm
#15
MadcowwithSARS wrote:I say leave it, if they ever fix weapon convergence on all ships it will be a change. Compairing the Firespray we get to Slave 1, is the same as compairing the Milenium Flacon to the stock YT1300 we also get. There is no comparison, you are trying to compair an elite ship to a production model. Maybe 30-40yrs of upgrades and the Firespray will Rival Slave 1. Please for the sake of sanity people, do not compair the ships major characters flew in Star Wars to the run of the mill models we recieve.
That's right Alliance X-Wings are way more powerfull than the ones in the movies. Plus the TIE Aggressor and Oppressor don't appear in the Movies either. Not to mention the neutral ships. They actually did a very good job of giving us deversity in ships and attributes.
However it would be nice to see the M. Falcon blasting Imperial TIEs near Lok and Slave 1 travelling near Tatooine. Just a thought.
Pharrel/CORBANTIS
Alyxian
Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:39 pm
#16
From an Imp point of view, there is absolutly no reason for me to fly my FireSpray, it sucks. I can pack the same guns and components into my Oppressor, with one less launcher (one launcher in my Oppressor, 2 in my FireSpray, all Spacebombs) and out fly my FireSpray any day. Not to mention there are no convergance issues on the Oppressor.
/shrug
Then again, I have seen some pretty hot FireSpray pilots..and I can use mine well, just not as good. No point really, it is not worth the price or the loot grind to get it.
Vicotnik
Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:26 pm
#17
Looking at this setup, something tells me that it does not need more mass for better shield and armor. Not unless the controls and speed gets hit with a nerf B-wing style (and I don't think anyone wants that to happen...). 2k shields, 2xlevel 9 blasters, a "top of the line" speed engine and reactor and capacitor power to back it up is plenty.
Achyutathewook wrote:
No.... It doesnt need an upgrade... just more mass for better sheilds and armor. Here is my mark up of what I have with my FS, and I have no problems with small or large targets. I fight better in my FS than any other ship.
2 LvL 9 Blasters with quick shot
16k reactor
2100 sheilds
700 armor
103 spd w/ 55 y/p/r engine
1 proton launcher
41.3 recharge cap with 1100 max energy
DarthKaelan
Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:27 am
#18
amiller44 wrote:
I am a Firespray owner myself and I agree there needs ot be some kind of upgrade to it. The new Krayt with it's three forward weapons and equal mass to the firespray is ridiculous. What is the use of taking all of the time to loot hundreds and hundreds of loot parts when you can go to a master shipright and have him make you a Krayt in minutes. The devs are always taking about "balance", so i say practice what you preach and DO IT!!!!!
Aarion Miller
Ahazi
Well, I would say at least in part that the use is in having something that few others have.
I honestly wouldn't mind a Firespray simply for the fact that you don't see one every time you go up into space (at least I don't.)
Elan_Nossirah
Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:33 am
#19
So far I have not really had a problem with mass and my chassis is 212800.
Here are my rough stats:
Reactor: ~14500
Engine: 106.7 PYR - ~74
Shields: 3830 f/b 15.5 (yes they are REd and yes they are Uber)
Armor: ~1100 f/b
Capacitor: ~1300, ~47.x
Droid Interface: 9.9
Booster: ~26 top speed, ~2000 energy, ~50 recharge
Weapon1: Lvl8 ~3800 .670 a/s, 13.6 e/s, .380 refire
Weapon2: Lvl8 ~3800 .690 a/s 13.4 e/s, .390 refire
Ordinance1: MkIV Proton Launcher 10k / MkII Spacebomb Launcher 25k (one or the other)
Ordinance2: MkIV Proton Launcher 10k / MkII Spacebomb Launcher 25k (one or the other)
Countermeasures: Chaff Launcher
Flight Computer: v6 running EO3, WCO3, WO3, and CtSS4
That just about tops my mass and about a little less than 1k below my reactor output. I think that's a pretty top of the line setup given the mass limits and available weapon hardpoints. Sure there are components with better stats (except the shields maybe). Most everything there is REd except for the reactor, armor, and until I get enough Lvl10 parts, the droid interface.
Now, I've been flying the FS long enough to get a good handle on her and I've been doing plenty of PvP as well. But I know that if I go up against a skilled pilot in an Oppressor who doesn't just come at me head on then the majority of the time I am going to lose. I just can't match the turning speed and will always be at a disadvantage due to the fact that when pulling lead, only one of my guns has a chance to hit my target. So it's my 1 gun and shields against their 2 guns and shields. My shields may be great against the PvE world, but in PvP it matters not (at least yet). Not to mention how much a bigger target the FS represents.
IMO, if the convergence can be addressed so that as long as you are pulling the correct lead and sighted on the target reticle, all guns should have a chance of hitting. That is a given I would think. But perhaps the chassis stats can be tweaked just a tiny little bit.
The X-Wing is a good ship. Matched against the Oppressor it has a third weapon hardpoint in favor of a second ordinance hardpoint. It has very good flight characteristics that rival the Oppressor. But it's Achilles' heal is it has 2/3 less mass. So that means making tough choices like sacrificing better shields or even armor altogether. It also means maybe not being able to put high damaging weapons on it, or at least without having to make some major sacrifices to do it.
Balancing is a really tough thing and a lot of it depends on a matter of perspective and bias instead of raw stats. Since there exists an environment where not all ships, of even the same type, are equal due to the customization of components, it can be even harder to find that balance.
In PvE, I have no real qualms with the way the ships currently are. But PvP may be a different story. I'm still holding out for another major pass at the PvP damage values and will reserve my own final judgment on the balancing of ships when and if that day ever comes.
Message Edited by Elan_Nossirah on 01-08-2005 02:38 AM
Astrus
Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:10 am
#20
MadcowwithSARS wrote:
....Please for the sake of sanity people, do not compair the ships major characters flew in Star Wars to the run of the mill models we recieve.
/applaud
NeonCoyote
Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:25 am
#21
Humm... I am not fully sure how I feel about this.
My Current Lineup with my Main (a neutral, though I do have 2 Imp pilots as well)
YT 1300
Krayt
Firespray
< I set fire to my yattch since it takes a lot AND s ship slot... one or the other would be nice>
I love my yt 1300 even though it's useless... mainly it's my house in space lol. Might love it more if a rebel or imp could sit in the com chair! (I am against pilot controlled turrets but would like auto pilot continue when ya get up from the pilot seat)
My Krayt Well I love that too, though I wish they would ass a way to add a turret gun without taking away from the normal mass since it is our only 2 man ship and putting someone in the turret gimps it. In general it's my combat ship of choice.
Folks complain about the 3rd weapon point being to far out to be useful... and since I dont PVP It could be more useful closer, but I can live with that.
My Firespray....
Humm...
well...
I really think this should have been the Krayt, that is a neutral master only ship...
but to me, now...
it's more of a...
how do i say it...
Black Sun Helm.
Nice looking....
But not very Useful....
More Status than anything.
I would rather fly my Krayt into combat.
I dont think though that it should be the uber ship of choice... but it might be nice having say the option to chose between 2 weapons/ 2 ordinances or giving up one of the ordinances for a 3rd weapon maybe.... possibly making the Firespray more customizable than some ships. Or even if someone wants 1 weapon mount 3 ordinances... just to keep the FS a bit more unique and useful.
Might also be kinda fun if it had something like the ability to drop a space bomb behind ya, or some trickey option... nothing to throw the balance off to much... but something to make it more fun, something that when you saw one in combat you might think Hummm what am I Up against.
My suggestion of how to give it more customizations with out having to remake em would be to give SW's a new schema (perhaps quest?) The Schema would work only in the Firespray and would let you mount a MODIFY item in say your ordinance 1 slot. Say a Modify to Weapon Mount With that in the Ordinence slot, you could then click on it, and drop in a 3rd weapon. Or in a weapon mount you could add a Modify to Ordinance item that would change a weapon mount into an ordinence.
Possibly you could take this further by allowing weapons or mounts in any of the 4 slots, so you could change your own convergence.... of course i would want to beta this to make sure you couldnt tip the scale to far and turn the FS into the Uber ship... but it would with out a doubt make it a FUN ship. 
Message Edited by NeonCoyote on 01-08-2005 06:28 AM
Gyorgy
Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:40 am
#22
I think that weapon/ordnance adaptability sounds very nice although it should never be 4/0 or 0/4 (cause then it would be uber. 
). I also think some unique special to the Firespray would be kinda fun too since in Episode II Jango dropped that seismic bomb at the back of his ship.Would be useful if we got something like that too although it would require some good testing.
). I also think some unique special to the Firespray would be kinda fun too since in Episode II Jango dropped that seismic bomb at the back of his ship.Would be useful if we got something like that too although it would require some good testing.
Skuzz
Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:10 am
#23
IMHO. Theres a reason you dont see many firesprays in space, and it has less to do with rarity and more to do with performance. Some people like they way it looks or the mystique it has and thats cool, but statistically it just doesnt offer anything special, and considering the price tag that it has....
Slestak
Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:38 pm
#24
Well I know i'll get flamed for my opinion but here goes anyways, first let me start by saying I have 2 charcters thanks to unlocking my Jedi, and both my guys are Imperial on the ground. One of my characters first Mastered Privateer and thats all he has been, while my other character Mastered Imperial Pilot, then after awhile dropped it and Mastered Privateer then Mastered Rebel pilot...basically i've flown every ship that a player can possibly fly in the game including the Firespray, which I do not own just one a friend gave me the deed to take and try out.
Gyorgy wrote:
(4. Now some peeps might wonder why firespray owners start to moan? Somebody got the glorious idea of making an ordinary ship better than the firespray. Bravo!)
Now like the above statement about Firespray owners moaning because they made an ordinary ship better then it, I can only assume is referring to the Krayt manly I deduct that from other players and friends I know that own the Firespray and were upset about the Krayt being as good if not slightly better then it. Well IMHO they have no reason to moan because the Firespray was originallysupposed to be a Privateer only ship but for some odd reason at the last minute the Devs decided to make every master able to fly it, leaving the only Master ships for Privateers the MP YT or the Firespray, which the majority of Privateers could noteven own the Firespray because in the beginning it went to just the rich, the guys able to waste 4-10 million a disk to obtain leaving the Rich Rebels and Imperials to not only own theirMP ship, their Faction Master ship and also own the Firespray the only ship other then the YT that the Privateers could use..
So IMHO they had to make the Krayt at least equal to the Firespray, the ship that was originally supposed to be the Privateer only Master Ship and which to me makes sense as a privateer only ship even with me being mainly Imperial, I mean you think of theFirespray you think of a Bounty Hunter, you think of the YT-1300 you think of a Smuggler...when you think of Bounty Hunters and Smugglers you think of people who work for whatever faction that is paying the best so you think of Privateers asguys who are working for themselves loyal to no one but themselves...
Of course after the Devs made the stupid mistake of making the Firespray for everyone, they just couldn't turn around and then restrict it to just Privateers...to many, not all but many of therich Rebels and Imperials that already own itwould have a Sh#t fit, i've found alot of the rich folks meaning the ultra rich ifnothing elselove to have their cake and eat it to, again I say alot not all, but to correct their mistake they put in the Krayt with the same Mass, one less Missle hardpoint but with one more gun hardpoint (well not including the turrent)..I think the 2 are very comparable other then yes the convergence on the Firespray needs addressed, after that I see no reason to change a thing...if anything maybe to make it unique other then the fact that it is already rare so its already unique in that way is to make the hardpoints accept missle launchers or guns so you have more options, so you could have 2 guns 2 missles or 3 guns and 1 missle or 4 guns and no missles or even all missles no gunsor however you want to set it up..
Every Master Ship is unique in a way, compairing the Firespray and the Krayt is like compairing the B-wing and the Oppressor....Imperials can complain that the B-wing has way more mass 4 guns compared to their 2 guns and 1 less missle launcher...Rebels can complain that the Oppressor has decent mass better speed and control with 3 missle launchers. I think the problem lies in the fact alot of Firespray owners think it should be the end all be allship better then all other ships in every possiblesituation...when in reality Rebels and Imperials should be thankful they have the selection of ships they do, Rebels can use the B-wing which has incredible mass and is great for things like the Corvette and stillhave access to a ship very compairable to the Privateers Master Ship, the Imperials have the Oppressor with its 3 Missle launchers good manuverabilty and speed and access to a ship very compairable to the Privateers Master Ship..The privateers have the Krayt which is a good all around ship kinda the middle of the B-wing and Oppressor and has access to a ship that is only compairable to the ship they already have....
In the end I think no one really has anything to complain about and if anyone is interested after flying all factions and all ships i'll list my favorite ships for each faction at least the ones I'd keep in my datapad for each profession: (REBEL: X-Wing, B-wing, Firespray/Nova), (IMPERIAL: Oppressor, Advanced, Firespray/Decimator), (PRIVATEER: Krayt, Yt-1300, Dunelizard/Firespray)
Gyorgy
Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:48 pm
#25
Well, of course the firespray was first privateer only, but devs seemed to want to get shipwrights a special/rare rewardfor their REing.
And i do think you can compare the krayt and the firespray to some extent (at least it's not as impossible as with oppressor and b-wing). I heard from many sides that the krayt is better than the firespray (maybe even the best ship) and the stats i've seen seem to underline that.
You are also right, that only people with the needed credits can get the firespray but there was always something in game that was real hard to get and therefore very expensive. But also those very expensive things were normally also more useful than the standard stuff.
The question here is if the credits/effortyou spend to get something should reward you in a certain way or not (especially since this game is pretty credit/economy-based). And only unique looks is not really enough for that kind of cost/effort difference. But ok, you can have another oppinion about that.
Message Edited by Gyorgy on 01-08-2005 02:49 PM
Electro5
Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:16 pm
#26
Actually, a lot of the rare stuff is just that, rare. Take a look. You have:
RIS Armor: Looks cool, slightly lower stats to composite, and vulnerability to acid, a common type for ranged professions. Lighter encumberence, but not much else going for it.
Nightsister Energy Lance: Energy damage, but other than that stats are lower than a Vibro Lance and much less than a Long Vibro Axe. Has mild diseases, but still, mostly just looks cool.
AV-21 Speeder: Speed matches that of the Swoop, slightly higher hill manuevering, but thats it.
Executioners Hack: Slightly lower stats than the Scythe, and pretty hard to make. Again, looks cool.
Bounty Hunter Armor: Lousy stats. Looks stupid. Blah.
Mandolorian Armor: Don't know the stats, but probably not even as good as composite again, and very difficult to get. I have seen a grand total of 1 helmet and nothing else in my entire time playing it. Highly desired because of all the Fett wannabees.
DE-10 Pistol: Actually something that is good, highest damage of all pistols.
Genosian Pistol: Not exactly rare. Was good in PvP until everyone started putting stun composite on, and now its pretty much just another nifty weapon thats not much use.
I'm sure there are more rare things I haven't listed, but I made my point. There's not really anything that makes any of these that much better than what you can get for a much lower price and without a headache. The reason people want them is because they are rare, and therefore cool.