Pilot Archive

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JanuHull wrote:

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LeaphChausew wrote:

Hang on a moment. You tested lvl 6 engine against an A-wing with..a lvl 10 ENGINE?! How the hell did they get a lvl 10 engine in an A-wing and have room for the pilot? Were they using paper shields and a lvl 4 gun? o.o

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Probably a level 10 engine, level 1 reactor, level 2 capacitor, level 3 shield, pre-nerf level 1 DI, and a level 5-6 gun

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I realize it's an edited post, but it does make for an interesting conversation topic. First time I went up against this pilot early in the evening she was running a QID, and it showed. Dang, I suck at actually hitting the target, my worst pilot skill is accuracy. Anyhow, I'm watching this A-Wing zip all over and thinking, eh, can't get much worse. At least I tagged her a time or two while she had the QID in.

Later she came back and was just having fun I think, sent a tell and asked how I liked her flying now. Level 10 engine, no shields or armor I believe. Not sure what the weapon was, but she also had a small missile launcher squeezed in there. All I know is that little A-Wing dusted my poor Interceptor, it was like seeing a little gnat whiz by. Between my crappy connection and generally poor aiming, I don't think I ever touched her while she had the level 10 in there.

One of Bloodfin's better shipwrights, so it wouldn't surprise me if the equipment was all crafted or post-nerf. I don't think she was going for combat efficiency.

Back on topic though, I did fly against more than just her during my tests. But that little A-Wing definately sticks out.

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Attacca wrote:

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Attacca wrote:

Without making a more accurate test, I believe I was correct on ship handling. However, in the dynamics of space PvP, the lack of speed left me as a sitting duck, and dramatically changed the nature of dogfighting. The faster engines led to better tactics.

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Emphasis added.

I'll try and expalin this to you. I'll even type real slow. What I set out to look at was the relationship between speed, PYR, and chassis handling. The conclusion had nothing to do with speed being, as you said,the vital factor. Read the entire thread, and read the linked thread, and just for fun read this thread: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pilot&message.id=106500 There is a relationship here between these factors that is glossed over and misunderstood on a wide scale, that's what I was looking at. I wanted to see what was actually true, and share some findings. You stating that that my conclusion dealt with speed being the vital factor suggests either you didn't read the thread, this is beyond your understanding, or I'm not being clear enough somewhere.

Speed as it relates to tactics refers to (I think Leaph said this above) the arc a ship cuts in space as it moves at different speeds. I was right - or at least from a few tests seemed right - that the slower engine dramatically allowed for a tighter turn. That's what I was looking at. That's where the argument was. Read the freakin' thread. The statement, "The faster engines led to better tactics" was an observation from a single night of PvP, where althought I could turn tighter I had little defense against faster ships with similar PYR (face it, most aces have similar PYR, at least similar enough that netlag renders it close). In JTL where one or two hits can mean death, this was an unsuccessful tactic.

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Ok, I will type slow, so you get it.

I read your thread, and the related threads, YOUR CONCLUSION stated speed was the vital factor. I did not have a problem with any of your data, as I stated before. I did have a problem with taking all that data and coming to the CONCLUSION that "The faster engines led to better tactics". All of the data and relational comparisons in the world will not change the fact that you presented them with a CONCLUSION I think is flawed.

How hard is it to get across to you that is not my conclusion? You even quoted an entire post stating exactly that.

Even assuming the phrase, "The faster engines led to better tactics," meant speed was vital, I'll tell you now I simply meant that as an observation in regards to what I saw that not, not as an ultimate law. How many times do I have to state that was not what I was getting at and elucidate my conclusion before you get a clue? You did not read the other threads - or did not understand them - because the conclusion can't be a matter of speed being vital, since that was not what I was looking at.

Good grief!

I will respectfully disagree, and this is the exact thing I was trying to get at with the original poster.

You think raw speed will get you through PvP, and for you...*shrug* it might. I would question that a lot, especially going up against experienced pilots.

I do not think this is the right conclusion, and i don't think the original poster did either, despite what the conclusion on his original post states.

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Zanholo wrote:

Speed wins if both pilots have comparable skill, imo, especially when the gap is great. There is very little chance someone using an 82 speed engine is ever going to kill me when I'm using 117+ speed/63+ pyr crafted engine with EO, unless they catch me by surprise.

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From my experiences of running a re'd lvl 8 engine with EO4 and a r,p,y of 76,76,79 my top speed being 1380 with overload. A crafted engine...which will probably be using EO3 due to the energy drain might still be quicker than my ship but with only 63 r,p,y won't stand a chance in hell unless they got good shields, a lot of weapons and go for joust tactics. If they're running EO4 even I wouldn't fancy their chances. Sure your target reticle from my point of view would be miles in front of you...but I sincerely doubt you'd be able to keep my ship on screen if you went for turning tactics. /shrug. Thats what I found in the past anyway. However...if it is working for you, cool.

-Leaph

I did read your entire thread, and as I said, I appreciated the data you collected. However, your conclusion was not in line with my thinking. You concluded that speed was the vital factor in the engine, "The faster engines led to better tactics". I disagree and was just pointing out that your conclusion was flawed and does not take everythgin into account. You havea 120 speed engine with 62 YPR, I will vape you every time in the same chassis at 82 speed and 74+ YPR.

Your test and data was not what I was argueing against, Your conclusion however, was lacking in my opinion.

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Alyxian wrote:

However, your conclusion was not in line with my thinking. You concluded that speed was the vital factor in the engine,

Your test and data was not what I was argueing against, Your conclusion however, was lacking in my opinion.

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Alyxian wrote:

I did read your entire thread, and as I said, I appreciated the data you collected. However, your conclusion was not in line with my thinking. You concluded that speed was the vital factor in the engine, "The faster engines led to better tactics". I disagree and was just pointing out that your conclusion was flawed and does not take everythgin into account. You havea 120 speed engine with 62 YPR, I will vape you every time in the same chassis at 82 speed and 74+ YPR.

Your test and data was not what I was argueing against, Your conclusion however, was lacking in my opinion.

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Alyxian, while I would probably side with you more on that point. I don't like the attitude of "I'll vape you everytime" kind of thing. That is an absolute ..and I think Janu is very right in saying that JTLS is good for the fact there are no absolutes. I mean..thinking about it, it is that -very- reason I'm still flying an A-wing...because even if I am limited component wise now with what I got on it..there is no absolution to the way I fly or what I could personally do in the future. Same for everybody. It's all about making use of what you have to it's full potential...and even past that.

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LeaphChausew wrote:

Alyxian, while I would probably side with you more on that point. I don't like the attitude of "I'll vape you everytime" kind of thing. That is an absolute ..and I think Janu is very right in saying that JTLS is good for the fact there are no absolutes. I mean..thinking about it, it is that -very- reason I'm still flying an A-wing...because even if I am limited component wise now with what I got on it..there is no absolution to the way I fly or what I could personally do in the future. Same for everybody. It's all about making use of what you have to it's full potential...and even past that.

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True enough, the "I'll vape you everytime" thing was just in reference to something Tomo once meant to say, "A pilot without her ego, is just a guy"

I do not doubt there are flying styles that can use top speed as a primary, in fact I know Adonis uses one tactic where top speed is everything.

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Alyxian wrote:

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LeaphChausew wrote:

Alyxian, while I would probably side with you more on that point. I don't like the attitude of "I'll vape you everytime" kind of thing. That is an absolute ..and I think Janu is very right in saying that JTLS is good for the fact there are no absolutes. I mean..thinking about it, it is that -very- reason I'm still flying an A-wing...because even if I am limited component wise now with what I got on it..there is no absolution to the way I fly or what I could personally do in the future. Same for everybody. It's all about making use of what you have to it's full potential...and even past that.

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True enough, the "I'll vape you everytime" thing was just in reference to something Tomo once meant to say, "A pilot without her ego, is just a guy"

I do not doubt there are flying styles that can use top speed as a primary, in fact I know Adonis uses one tactic where top speed is everything.

At the same time, the quote I made about faster engines leading to better tactics seems like an absolute to me as well, and one this is incorrect in my opinion.

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