Pilot Archive
Thread: Focus: PVP Decay
DeijhaVhu
Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:09 am
#14
I'm a Pilot, Shipwright and DE...as a ShipWright having no decay would hurt to a certain extent. Essentially the only repeat sales I can get as it is, are for things like missiles and chaff.
So I think there should be decay, but I don't think it should be left at that. Why should you be afraid to use those uber components just because you risk having decay (that's the pilot in me speaking) This defeats the purpose of all those many hours spent trying to get just the right setup.
There should be decay, but shipwrights should have the ability to make and use a "rebuild" or "overhaul" kit. Just like in real life the parts of an airplane need to be overhauled every so many hours. This would return the item to a like new status. The economy should balance out the cost of the rebuilds as being slightly less then a new component, otherwise people would just buy new stuff.
This way shipwrights still have something to do, and pilots can fly whatever they want without fear
Message Edited by DeijhaVhu on 04-26-2005 09:11 AM
Combat_Medic_to_be
Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:28 am
#15
I have to say an overhaul type system would please me the most. Just add the maximum value in brackets to each item so you know how decayed it is and let only SW repair an item past that level or maybe a complex item crafted by a SW, I don't want to become an overhaul monkey. I'd like to see the item being complex and requiring named resources (no new ones mind) so that they are only viable on looted items.
red5angel
Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:49 am
#16
I'm roleplaying the game more then playing against the system. Saying that, I don't mind the decaying because it makes sense. Take your car for example: There are times when you can fix a part because of wear and tear, and there are times when you need to replace the part. So it makes sense to me.
Kitten_Starsider
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:14 am
#17
I am only pilot and no shipwright.
I would on the one hand like no decay in PvP as I have some very nice RE'ed components which are not easily replaced. My A-wing chassis that i got as present aparently took 60mil to make... which would be near impossible to replace for me as I never had even near that moch money. So either no decay at all or decay entirely.
As it stands now the decay discourages space PvP which is bad for JTL in general.
On the other hand the interests of shipwrights need to be considered as well. Opposed to us they chose to spend skillpoints for their role in JTL and therefore should get their share as well.
But my theory is that removing decay in PvPitself will not hurt shipwrights that much. Most PvP ships are mainly equipped with reverse engineered components where shipwrights already don't earn money from.
Forced PvP decay greatly discourages loot collectors to actually use their good equipment and it also hurts the pilots that would preffer not to grind for loot for every time they die in PvP.
I very much like the component insurance idea as it both offers no decay but transfers some of our money over to the shipwrights.
Another nice idea could be repairs at a space station causing no permanent but temporary decay. Shipwrights could then craft a new type of repair kits (maybe call it "rebuild kit") which completely restores the components entirely.
This would work similar to wounds and you would not need to run to a shipwright each time you are shot down. This allows both ongoing PvP.
A third option could be that repairing at space stations causes decay but if you land and use the ship component repair kits (only the specialised ones) there would be no decay. This encourages people to restock their missiles as well so those that died will gain a slight advantage over timesince they can refill their missiles and countermeasure packs regularly.
EDIT: From an RP point of view this would make sense too as a laser cannon for example is a complex item with various sub components. It would be similar to repairing a car. The sub components of the real component would be replaced. We would have both: Money to shipwrights and we could keep our precious components if we take care of them. No one likes to get soemthing destroyed that they spent time on collecting 
Kitten
Message Edited by Kitten_Starsider on 04-26-2005 01:22 PM
Azzoi
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:23 am
#18
I believe PvP decay should stay, only if shipwrights can make components the same has looted ones.
Alyxian
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:24 am
#19
I like some of Kittens ideas, to keep the SW in business.
Honestly, if you want to remove PvP decay, just remove all decay...very few people get blown up with decent components while grinding up. They get killed, but mostly with crap componets.
Ducimus
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:25 am
#20
TomoRainer wrote:
Well, so long as we're sort of waiting out the storm like this, I'd like to hear your thoughts on something that's been brought up tangentially in the recent PVP tactics thread but not discussed explicitly. Specifically, what do you think of PVP decay?
Despite my last few posts on it in that thread, i don't feel decay should be in place. I except a GCW in space. I expcet JTL be somethign like planetside really. Which means i want massive fights, for a tangible goal, and i expect to die.. ALOT.. maybe even up to 30 times or more an hour.
Decay just facliitiate this vision.
xTekx
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:36 am
#21
I am for no decay in space pvp. But the dev's would have to implement something like on the ground that distinguishes between a NPC kill anda Player kill. As far asit seems to me the computer see's no difference between the two.
What I would go with is no decay on components from being shot from another player, whether it be duel or faction related, or even guild war related if we ever get that. You still take decay on you're chassis though. That way SW's still have a means of being around.Also how many components do you have on your ship that is made by a SW? I only have the reactor and shield on mine. And the shield doesn't have to be PC made. I have some nice shields that i've had RE'd to. So on my ship going back to a SW isn't really an option to replace the components that I would lose to decay. I would have to go out and loot like crazy to find the right pieces to have RE'd. And I get free RE's since there's 3 SW's in my guild. So in my case decay only hurts me because the only piece I would absolutely have to replace would be the reactor.
I'm all for decay happening if you're shot down by an NPC. Whether it be the SD, rebel station, the vette, or just a NPC fighter you should suffer decay. It would be no different then if you died on the ground at that point.
Also, someone mentioned an idea of maybe having SW's insure components. That sounded like a great idea to me. Would give another aspect to the SW's.
But one thing that would need to be fixed for the SW's if decay is going to stay the way it is, or get worse, is for them to be able to make some quality components on other items other then reactors and shields. Atleast have them make near the same quality as some of the nice stuff that is looted.
SheenaBrelya
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:37 am
#22
I'm a big fan of Decay. Decay is one of the primary forces in our economy and, to me, makes sense as a whole. Decay even has a secondary use - balance. I know the word gets thrown around a lot, but I believe it to be of use here.
I'm all for Pilots scouring bazaar listings and spending hours in Deep Space and Kessel hunting for quality loot to RE to make that 'perfect' set. I do not have a big problem when loot tables are changed, lowering the theoretical maximums of certain stats on certain components. I do feel that the use of a component, any component, should play a part in that components 'wear and tear' and eventual uselessness.
There are multiple reasons for non-balanced items, whether it be simply that the loot tables no longer create engines with 105+ Top Speeds or that the system originally allowed Shield adjust Programs affect loot upon being RE's.
When components are 'worn out' by use, the system and economy will, over time, naturally replace items that fall outside the current loot/crafted values with items that fit within the current numbers. Having a way to bypass Decay means that older components that fall outside the range of anything currently achievable will stay in the system longer, if not indefinately.
It is not too hard to find people who do not like Decay as a part of PvP combat. There are plenty of Pilots I know that only use certain components in ships they expect to only take to Deep Space because of the threat of Decay. It is also not too hard to find people who do not like the use of un-balanced components in PvP combat which has the effect of skewing what should be a system based mostly on player skill.
How do you solve both problems?
Shona
I'm all for Pilots scouring bazaar listings and spending hours in Deep Space and Kessel hunting for quality loot to RE to make that 'perfect' set. I do not have a big problem when loot tables are changed, lowering the theoretical maximums of certain stats on certain components. I do feel that the use of a component, any component, should play a part in that components 'wear and tear' and eventual uselessness.
There are multiple reasons for non-balanced items, whether it be simply that the loot tables no longer create engines with 105+ Top Speeds or that the system originally allowed Shield adjust Programs affect loot upon being RE's.
When components are 'worn out' by use, the system and economy will, over time, naturally replace items that fall outside the current loot/crafted values with items that fit within the current numbers. Having a way to bypass Decay means that older components that fall outside the range of anything currently achievable will stay in the system longer, if not indefinately.
It is not too hard to find people who do not like Decay as a part of PvP combat. There are plenty of Pilots I know that only use certain components in ships they expect to only take to Deep Space because of the threat of Decay. It is also not too hard to find people who do not like the use of un-balanced components in PvP combat which has the effect of skewing what should be a system based mostly on player skill.
How do you solve both problems?
Shona
Kitten_Starsider
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:39 am
#23
No decay will make space more fun. More people will join if they know that they dont risk loosing their precious components and chassis'. No decay is in my eyes the way to go but we have to think of ways to integrate shipwrights into that and at the same time make their profession more important too.
I am confident there are better ways to support shipwrights than decay that discourages PvP. As Ducimus said you can't PvP if you don't expect to be blown up.
Kitten
Combat_Medic_to_be
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:40 am
#24
Kitten_Starsider wrote:
A third option could be that repairing at space stations causes decay but if you land and use the ship component repair kits (only the specialised ones) there would be no decay. This encourages people to restock their missiles as well so those that died will gain a slight advantage over time since they can refill their missiles and countermeasure packs regularly.
Definately my favourite proposal, would probably be easiest to implement to, simply stopping specialised repair kits from giving decay. This seems like the best solution from both a SW and pilot point of view.
Alyxian
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:52 am
#25
Problem is that a lot of the best components are reward items, which means pilots have to run through master trees avery so often just to get them replaced. This does not make sense to me.
SheenaBrelya wrote:
I'm all for Pilots scouring bazaar listings and spending hours in Deep Space and Kessel hunting for quality loot to RE to make that 'perfect' set. I do not have a big problem when loot tables are changed, lowering the theoretical maximums of certain stats on certain components.
Coreena
Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:56 am
#26
I think PvP Decay should be removed.
They removed it from the ground game for a good reason, because noone was PvPing anymore because of it (ok, since they left in the tripple incap bug, it didn't get much better).
I think if it gets removed more people will fly overt again, because they don't fear for their stuff, and PvP in space overall will profit from it.
Problem is, how to determine how to decide if it was PvP damage or not. Perhaps after a PvP death have your ship automatically repaired... but that leaves the door open for grievers again, disabling you and letting you sit there, forcing you to eject (see tripple incap on ground if you think that noone will do it).
And I understand the shipwrights concern too. But lets face it: Most serious PvPers don't use shipwright stuff except for Armor, Reactors and Boosters, perhaps Shields, everything else is REd. Sure you get some money for doing that, but the frustration of loosing some gun/engine/anything you worked your ass of to get, is so high, that those people perhaps more likely quit piloting alltogether than looting again and having it REd.
Ship chassis decay I don't care that much about, a chassis is faaaar easier to replace than a reward gun or a pre-nerf engine or so.
I like Kitten's idea kinda too. Have it repaired on the ground with the real tools gives you no decay. Might be the easiest to implement too.
Those tools have no purpose as it is now, except in Multiplayer ships (and there usually using an All purpose repair kit is far more convinient). Repairing them fromt he inside should not give decay either, of course (or it would be quite unfair)
They removed it from the ground game for a good reason, because noone was PvPing anymore because of it (ok, since they left in the tripple incap bug, it didn't get much better).
I think if it gets removed more people will fly overt again, because they don't fear for their stuff, and PvP in space overall will profit from it.
Problem is, how to determine how to decide if it was PvP damage or not. Perhaps after a PvP death have your ship automatically repaired... but that leaves the door open for grievers again, disabling you and letting you sit there, forcing you to eject (see tripple incap on ground if you think that noone will do it).
And I understand the shipwrights concern too. But lets face it: Most serious PvPers don't use shipwright stuff except for Armor, Reactors and Boosters, perhaps Shields, everything else is REd. Sure you get some money for doing that, but the frustration of loosing some gun/engine/anything you worked your ass of to get, is so high, that those people perhaps more likely quit piloting alltogether than looting again and having it REd.
Ship chassis decay I don't care that much about, a chassis is faaaar easier to replace than a reward gun or a pre-nerf engine or so.
I like Kitten's idea kinda too. Have it repaired on the ground with the real tools gives you no decay. Might be the easiest to implement too.
Those tools have no purpose as it is now, except in Multiplayer ships (and there usually using an All purpose repair kit is far more convinient). Repairing them fromt he inside should not give decay either, of course (or it would be quite unfair)