Pilot Archive
Thread: Can we unite for some Pilot Fixes? Only way we will be able to get changes is if we stand together
Care to give some examples? I can't remember any.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
when a profession communityfocuses on pushing a few issues very hard, rather than trying to get everything fixed at once, the profession is more successful (albiet not 100%) in getting their issues addressed, and more quickly.
The speed bug in the patrols doesn't happen until you're over at least 610.
As for the POB window bug, I wonder what happens with a ToOW ship and non-ToOW passenger, and vice-versa ... and if not having RotW would make a difference.
LeaphChausew wrote:
That'd be appreciated. I just think this is apalling though. The bug isn't client side as I just proved that and it isn't a bug true to everyone. If the same turns out for you guys then my assumption will be that SOE have done this on purpose so that people will buy ToOW in order to 'fix' the bug. I find the fact that even with the related fixes/downloads for ToOW in my SWG file that it doesn't universally fix the problem whether the expansion is activated or not.
I find it annoying furtherly, since I've been subscribed to this game for over a year now, bought ROTW on pre-order and recieve this treatment* so thanks a lot SOE.
*if you can call it that...
Leaph,
Just checked IG. Alt freelancer w/o ToOW was able to see out the windows of their YT-1300. There are issues with some of the starship terminals, so I didn't test the Sorosub.. Not sure if this is good news or bad news for ya, but it's news. Hope it helps. Lemmie know if you need more info. 
CNevyn wrote:
LeaphChausew wrote:
That'd be appreciated. I just think this is apalling though. The bug isn't client side as I just proved that and it isn't a bug true to everyone. If the same turns out for you guys then my assumption will be that SOE have done this on purpose so that people will buy ToOW in order to 'fix' the bug. I find the fact that even with the related fixes/downloads for ToOW in my SWG file that it doesn't universally fix the problem whether the expansion is activated or not.
I find it annoying furtherly, since I've been subscribed to this game for over a year now, bought ROTW on pre-order and recieve this treatment* so thanks a lot SOE.
*if you can call it that...
Leaph,
Just checked IG. Alt freelancer w/o ToOW was able to see out the windows of their YT-1300. There are issues with some of the starship terminals, so I didn't test the Sorosub.. Not sure if this is good news or bad news for ya, but it's news. Hope it helps. Lemmie know if you need more info.
Ok. Well so far I think it's exclusive to the Nova. Not sure, but I'll look into it some more.
I can 2nd this. Last night I logged in my main toon and my alt on 2 pcs and went up in the Y8. Main toon has ToOW and windows on the Y8 worked fine. Alt doesnot have ToOW and windows did not work.
Oh, and I agree with the OP. Nothing is gonna change unless we all get on the same page.
Message Edited by wasj2004 on 10-27-2005 03:11 PM
I'll give it a test tonight as well. Main char has a Nova and a Y8and ToOW, and my alt has a YT but not ToOW.
I should also mention that my main, pre-pub24/ToOW had silver tinted windows (for a while I thought they added a 'blast shields' command similar to the X-wing foils open command andre-checked all my keymaps...hehe)in the Nova and Black windows in the Y8. YT windows were also black on my alts account.
Edit: Windows on my Main's account POB ships (ToOW active) are normal now where they weren't before pub24. Windows on my Alt (RoTW active) POB ships are also normal where they weren't before pub24.
Message Edited by Smuggly1 on 10-28-2005 11:19 AM
psikobunny wrote:
What you missed was that the tone and wording of your original post came across very much as an end around. Not bothering to find out if those are reallythe community'stop issues (as opposed to your top issues), not bothering to ask the correspondent for his input. Just full speed ahead on what you thought was important without so much as a nod toward what Tomo is probably doing in the Correspondent Forums on our behalf.
It may not be what you meant, but it's what you sounded like.
PS- You mistake my criticism of the way you worded you post for apathy. I'm not apathetic, but I understand well enough how things get done around here. Activism leading to change is the exception, not the norm, and Higginsis pretty much nailed it right on the head.
Washell wrote:
Care to give some examples? I can't remember any.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
when a profession communityfocuses on pushing a few issues very hard, rather than trying to get everything fixed at once, the profession is more successful (albiet not 100%) in getting their issues addressed, and more quickly.
Sure.
Bounty Hunters hated the pointlessness of the BH NPC system. They organized, and were able to get a BH NPC loot revamp with system tweaks to make it more fun.
Rangers have been long the neglected folk of SWG. They stayed true and persistent, and now are getting an entire revamp.
Squad Leaders have also been organizing over their lack of role. They are getting a revamp as well.
Commandos are also in the same boat - they organized, and now are getting some investigative changes into their profession to make them more useful.
Entertainers organized and complained that there weren't enough "extras" to spice up their routines. So droids with light programs and holdable props were added.
I can go on, but I think you get the point. The way NOT to get something done is to be like the Jedi and other combat forums where when a positive change happens to fix the system, cry for it to be nerfed immediately, and have the forum go into lynching mode. THAT is what NEVER works, and sadly, too many people see that as positive effort. All THAT does is get you ignored.
But the people I mentioned above, and could mention, did it the right way. I understand that the issues I put forth may not be the biggest concerns for pilots, but what they are are things that can be fixed in a relatively short time span. So we have SOME progress, rather than waiting for the devs to get around to us as a profession to address all our issues.
Zion, those examples you give aren't results of highly organised campaigns, they are the result of the normal development cycle. All the thing you listed were suggested by the professions communities and hinted at by the devs several months in advanced.
Going down your list
BH NPC missions were talked about 3 months before the CU, suggestions were made in Dev, the feedback was taken, it went through when, and only when, the other items the Devs had on their cycle were finished.
Rangers have been promised a Revamp for well over a Year and a Half, in that year and a half they have gotten a concept. I know the devs will get the revamp done, but nothing the community has done, or could do, will speed that up.
SL's have been due a revamp since January 03, again the community gathered ideas and concepts and when the devs got to it in their Dev cycle they implemented the changes.Commandos did the same. StarNick and Garvin put forward some great ideas for changes, and these were taken on board and implemented when the Dev got to it.
Entertainers had put forward such ideas several months before implentation. The ideas were taken on board and eventually implented in the natural course of Development.
No one is saying that putting forward concepts and idea's is a bad thing. Far from it, its the most productive thing a profession community can do. What doesn't work, and never has made the devs take preference over one change from another, is campaigning and demanding changes. The way a game like this evolves affords no one the luxury of demanding things. In most cases the only time major changes are made within a shot time span is when they effect the game as a whole negitively.
I applaud the sentiment of the post, and the underlying will to improve pilot as a profession, but this method you suggest isn't the way to get what you want any faster.
Complaining, unless its from nearly all groups in all the game (such as the group XP changes) never works to accomplish.
Washell wrote:
Hmm, BH's benefit from Jedi and vice versa. If one changes the other needs to be balanced so they can sneak in some extra fixes.
Ranger/Squad leader/Commando's have been waiting since launch and then CU to get things fixed. From that example, you're saying that if we get organized with a list of small fixes we'll be done in 2 years.
Entertainers benefitted from the DE changes, not the other way around. Dev's want droids to be constant companions as in the movies. They're just having trouble setting up useful benefits for droids without overpowering players in the case of combat droids.
I'll expand a bit, I can't remember any short organized lists ofnon-gamebreaking bugsmade by a profession that got worked on within a 3 to 6 month timespan.
That's actually a bit revisionist on your part. Entertainers did benefit from DE changes, but they also petitioned for more flashy props - so you discount it because it scratches more than one back?
Ranger/Squad leader/Commando's - I know they have had issues for a while, but come on: aside from the Rangers, none of them have been organized as well as I laid out until recently.
Also, you fail to factor in that we have a dev staff now that WANTS to help. What you are doing is like blaming the current gas prices on former president Woodrow Wilson - it doesn't connect. The CURRENT dev team is responsive, and this is a team that has different people than the group this game launched with. And ever since this team assembled, things have been getting done.
A smart person doesn't blame the past issues on people that had nothing to do with it.
And I will reiterate - responses in Yellow bold:
Higginsis wrote:
Zion, those examples you give aren't results of highly organised campaigns, they are the result of the normal development cycle. All the thing you listed were suggested by the professions communities and hinted at by the devs several months in advanced. Not quite.
Going down your list
BH NPC missions were talked about 3 months before the CU, suggestions were made in Dev, the feedback was taken, it went through when, and only when, the other items the Devs had on their cycle were finished. They were talked about by Bounty Hunters who were tired of the boring PVE system, and they got organized - that is what "getting organized" means. I understand the nature of the cycle, and the devs will get to it when they can, but don't sit there and tell me that they would have revamped the BH loot system in 3 months time (part of which was the time the BH's used to get organized) if the BH community didn't come together and push for the changes in an organized, respectful way, because then I'd have to say you were fooling yourself.
Rangers have been promised a Revamp for well over a Year and a Half, in that year and a half they have gotten a concept. I know the devs will get the revamp done, but nothing the community has done, or could do, will speed that up. Like I just got done saying in the previous post, a smart, intelligent person does not blame faults on people who weren't here when they occured. Since the CU, we have had a dev team that gets things done, and in the way I originally said. What you are trying to do is the equivilent of whining about gass prices using the argument "well, it only cost 25 cents a gallon in 1954!" 1954 has nothing to do with 2005, and likewise, the dev staff has been turned over enough that to place the blame for theold delays is stupid, especially when the new staff has been very active.
SL's have been due a revamp since January 03, again the community gathered ideas and concepts and when the devs got to it in their Dev cycle they implemented the changes. Again, see the above 2 paragraphs.
Commandos did the same. StarNick and Garvin put forward some great ideas for changes, and these were taken on board and implemented when the Dev got to it. Likewise, see above.
Entertainers had put forward such ideas several months before implentation. The ideas were taken on board and eventually implented in the natural course of Development. And see above again.
No one is saying that putting forward concepts and idea's is a bad thing. Far from it, its the most productive thing a profession community can do. What doesn't work, and never has made the devs take preference over one change from another, is campaigning and demanding changes. The way a game like this evolves affords no one the luxury of demanding things. In most cases the only time major changes are made within a shot time span is when they effect the game as a whole negitively. I am a bit more optimistic, given what this current team has accomplished thus far, so I would like more proactive movement while we have lightening in a bottle.
I applaud the sentiment of the post, and the underlying will to improve pilot as a profession, but this method you suggest isn't the way to get what you want any faster. Sure it will. Keep in mind, that I am talking about minor bug fixes, not wholesale revamps like above. My point in mentioning the revamps was that when this current staff came on board, look at the relatively short time it took and is taking them to get those changed. And I have seen bugs like this fixed from positive community organization.
Complaining, unless its from nearly all groups in all the game (such as the group XP changes) never works to accomplish. I disagree. Most people who WHINE, then yes, you are correct. But when a group is positive and proactive, not looking to blame but just seeking to improve, the devs of recent vintage have done a great job listening.
Problem is we have too many immature people who seem to think going on a rant-filled tirade and acting like a 3rd grader, insulting the devs as they go, is "positive and proactive", which it most certainly isn't.