Pilot Archive
Thread: FOTM Jedi Starfighter....
Vegitaa wrote:
If it remains that Rebels have the perception of the JSF being an "I Win" button.. you just won't have any Rebels to shoot anymore.
If Imperials thought the Rebels had an "I Win" button then problem solved as well.. no more Imp's to shoot.
If Nuetrals believe they cannot compete in PvP against Rebels or Imps.. problem solved, no more Nuetral;s to shoot anymore.
No one will go overt if they BELIEVE they cannot compete. Your lack of understanding is outlined when you say "Don't NERF anything I know better than you do!" The fact is, it's hard enough to get people to go overt without asshats like you trying to prove how uber you are.
I can guarentee, if you faced any of the pilots in this thread, that know what they're talking about, you'd be dust before you even saw us coming. So cry more newb. Maybe if you knew what you were talking about you'd realize that PvP means Player versus Player. How are you going to be involved in PvP if no other players are willing to go up against an "I Win" ship?
That i think hits the nail right on the head - whats the point of 30 guys flying in circles in DS in their shiny JSFs ad infinitum, when no-one will go up against them as they perceive, rightly or wrongly (though most vets agree, rightly) that the enemies ship is a big flying "I WIN" button.
Ooola wrote:
All BS aside. Which way to you think is the right way to do it? If money and manpower wasn't an issue. If you could wave a magic wand.
Ooola wrote:
All BS aside. Which way to you think is the right way to do it? If money and manpower wasn't an issue. If you could wave a magic wand.
Ooola wrote:
All BS aside. Which way to you think is the right way to do it? If money and manpower wasn't an issue. If you could wave a magic wand.
If you really want to know I would do it like this -
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 05-20-2005 12:45 PM
Last night, I was literally flying backwards in front of an AWing and put 3 bolts through his cockpit. The YPR makes that possible. Tweak that down to somewhere in the middle between an AWing and a TIE Advanced.
Honestly, to the laymen, it wouldn't even be that noticable. To the "experts" we'd feel it, but it wouldn't feel like a NERF. Especially since now Shipwrights are crafting extremely nice engines. 104 spedd, 64YPR on a crafted engine.. that makes a difference.
My loot'ed Re-engineered engine sits at 104.6 speed, 75YPR and 24400 mass. Through that in a ship with 2 cert 8 weapons, and a 600/600/400 YPR.. it's just a killing machine.
Just tweak those YPR's down a bit and I think we have come up with a livable situation that does not NERF these ships into oblivian.
Vegitaa wrote:
Ooola wrote:
All BS aside. Which way to you think is the right way to do it? If money and manpower wasn't an issue. If you could wave a magic wand.
Now THAT is a valid question that is adding to the discussion!
Again, I'll point to the NUMEROUS detailed, well thought out posts in the "New Ship Stats" Thread stickied at the top of the forums where we discussed numbers.
If I had a magic wand, the ONLY thing I would do is reduce the YPR on these ships to "around" the same as the other Intercepters in the game. Somewhere in-between the Awing and the TIE Advanced. Leave mass alone, don't touch certifications or any of that.
All I would do is tweak those YPR numbers down a little bit and I think we would be good. Thats where the true "imbalance" exists. They'd still be manuevorable as all get out, but not to the extreme they are now. Thats it. A simple solution without making these vessels useless.
/bowrespectfully.
Here's the thing, JTL was never meant to be a one on one PvP game. It was meant to be 10 on 10. 20 on 20. 30 on 30. Never one A-Wing versus one TIE. Look at the movies. The coolest thing aboutStar Warswas seeing hundreds of ships (all DIFFERENT kinds) go at it.
Vegitaa wrote:
Last night, I was literally flying backwards in front of an AWing and put 3 bolts through his cockpit. The YPR makes that possible. Tweak that down to somewhere in the middle between an AWing and a TIE Advanced.
Honestly, to the laymen, it wouldn't even be that noticable. To the "experts" we'd feel it, but it wouldn't feel like a NERF. Especially since now Shipwrights are crafting extremely nice engines. 104 spedd, 64YPR on a crafted engine.. that makes a difference.
My loot'ed Re-engineered engine sits at 104.6 speed, 75YPR and 24400 mass. Through that in a ship with 2 cert 8 weapons, and a 600/600/400 YPR.. it's just a killing machine.
Just tweak those YPR's down a bit and I think we have come up with a livable situation that does not NERF these ships into oblivian.
Ooola wrote:
Here's the thing, JTL was never meant to be a one on one PvP game. It was meant to be 10 on 10. 20 on 20. 30 on 30. Never one A-Wing versus one TIE. Look at the movies. The coolest thing aboutStar Warswas seeing hundreds of ships (all DIFFERENT kinds) go at it.
I can guarantee if you take 20 JSFs against 5 Krayts, 5 A-Wings, 5 B-Wings, and 5 X-Wings the more diverse group will win every time...
So yes, the JSF has the upperhand against 1 lonely little X-Wing just as the A-Wing has the upperhand against an Oppressor but that's not the way it's supposed to be IMO.
Message Edited by CuchulainnDarklight on 05-20-2005 12:53 PM
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Ooola wrote:
All BS aside. Which way to you think is the right way to do it? If money and manpower wasn't an issue. If you could wave a magic wand.
If you really want to know I would do it like this -
Heavy starters - YPR stays as it is - mass reduced to 35k at the max.
I agree to this. No reason in the world a started ship should be this powerful ... its just not right at all that a starter ship should have better stats than a ship gained at tier 4.
JSF/Greivous - YPR reduced to Advanced/Interceptor level - mass reduced to 50k
Agree. But mass should be a bit higher, 60-70K.
ARC 170 slight reduction in YPR to below Xwing (normal) level but above Ywing.
I disagree here. The one weapon mount for the pilot is reason enough to keep the pyr where it is. Have you used turrets before? Theyre hardlyan advantage in pvp except to distract the pilot tailing them. Besides, pyr in the ARC iscountereffective to using the turrets. Max speed is the issue with this one but not an issue to be overly concerned with.
Heavy Xwing - reduction in mass to 150K YPR the same (or swop Heavy Xwing and advanced Xing YPRs around) and 2 torp tubes - possible 3 (like the Opp).
I agree here too. I never saw the point of simply adding mass to the same ship when in all actuality, the xwing is fine how it is. Mass added only to add missile tubes, but the pyr needs to come down on it as well if mass is increased.
Royal Guard Interceptor - stays the same!
Xwing - approx 10-15k more mass and the second torp tube its meant to have!
I have no problems with a 101K mass xwing. 9000 damage per shot, L8 engine, L8 shields at 2555/2555 16.0, lite armor (under 5K in armor mass), 1100+ cap before OL, 14.0 speed DI, 28 top speed booster ... only thing changing for 10-15K more mass is a swap of the rendilis (weapon 1 and 2) for borstels.
In pvp none of that matters. But for PvE, 10-15K more mass is very deadly.
Message Edited by 12AngryMinh on 05-20-2005 04:04 PM
hmm I'll have to retest because i know the JSF has a .95 speed then. If its mass gets lowered then it better get the 1.0 speed mod.
but seriously, the starfighter is a really cool ship... now as uber as it seems I dont htink its totaly unbalanced, ANYONE can fly it...but the catch? you have to go imperial first, which I think is the dumb part. if you make it so anyone can get it, reb, nut, or imp THEN it will be fine, since anyone can fly it and get it.....yes you would see 100 people flying jedi starfighters, but then no one coul complain when they got killed ;P and besides, I remeber when everyone was either in an awing, or tie advance and I still flew my krayt.
entrailsgalore2 wrote:
now you know how a freelancer feels when hes in his krayt and hes going againbst a tie advance or an a-wing
I'm sorry but just because everyone can fly a ship like this one, it does not make it balanced. Sure, PvP would be completely balanced if everyone flew the same ship, but all other ships would be completely obsolete. And that's for PvE as well as PvP.
The simple fact of the matter is: The developer who added these new ships had no idea what he was doing, the tested and working JTL balance was completely thrown out the window.