Pilot Archive
Thread: ROTW ships: How would you correct them?
JanuHull wrote:
Don't know many really good pilots, do you?
R9D14 wrote:
the best pilots i know fly JSFs.
not all of us like to handicap ourselves with an inferior but far cooler ship. i happen to know some VERY good pilots who fly JSFs.
DeepFatFryer wrote:
Yet again, another "Balance inconvinences me, so don't do it."
Oh come on you can do better than that
You're whole arguement is very shallow and is just demanding a nerf, my arguement does not demand a nerf and actually could benefit players and encourage them to fly the old pre-rotw ships.
You're pointing out you own personal feelings on them because they are an inconvenience to YOU, therby wanting the balance to happen for YOUR own selfish reasons.
I admit, I don't want the balance to happen for MY own selifish reasons, it inconveniences ME, but I'll get over it if it happens, I have 12 other ships I can fly if I want to, I just prefer the heavy variants (hell I fly an arc just cos it looks cool, my rihk flies rings around it but just doesn't look as nice).
So you tell me what gives YOU the right to have your selfish reasons be treat differently than mine, we both pay the same subscription, we've both played the game for over a year by the look of your forum reg date, we are BOTH master pilots, who decides who's opinion is the most important? It's not up to us, it's up to the rest of the community and ultimately SOE.
And I'll say this again, nerfs happen in this game because one class or profession has access to a skill or item that is not available any other profession that causes them to be more powerful than they should be, in the pilot profession, EVERYONE can fly at least 2 variants of the new pre-rotw ships regardless of class or faction, heck you dont even have to buy the expansion to fly the B-22.
Keep the overpowered, boring ships. Don't fix weapon overload three or the shield exploits.
I've really stopped caring.
Just for the record, the difference between a balance and a nerf is based on opinion. I want the old ship balance back, along with fixes for WO3 to make people fly different ships according to their preferences again. You see it as a nerf to the fun little overpowered toys.
Potato, pothato.
Because no-one opposes to it being fixed. Post a thread it should be fixed and you get a couple of /agrees, end of story.
R9D14 wrote:
What about the RGI's hitbox? barely see ANY complaints about that. If you cant handle it dont fly against it. learn how to take them on. not EVERYONE deserves the rank of ace pilot.
silverlady wrote:
The problem is, the old ships were not really balanced, imo. The existence of the JSF/Belb merely magnifies the imbalance that already existed. Mass alone is not enough to balance the ships, and imo, that will not change. Nerfing the ROTW ships will also not change the fact that all snub fighters are overpowered, and the heavier ships don't pack enough defensive capabilities (especially in PvP) to compensate for how easy they are to hit. Yes, it's true that a Krayt/B-wing/Opp/Rixh can roast a snub fighter in one volley...but the more likely scenario is that the snub fighter is going to out-maneuver the heavy ship, and blow it up in a few shots, max. There are exceptions to every rule, but in PvP as it currently exists in its general form, I am correct.
Before the ROTW fighters, a heavy ship with an RE'd level 8 engine could keep his nose on a snub fighter with an RE'd level 6, by the same token, a heavy ship with an RE'd level 10 engine could keep his nose on a snub fighter with an RE'd level 8. The only real imbalanced part was thatWO3 and the Capacitor Overloads being broken was essentially giving the snub fighter thesame effective firepower as the heavy fighter. If these droid programs were fixed, a pre-ROTW snub-fighter would be much more balanced against the heavy fighters, i.e., a level 6 gun running WO2 has a lot less offensive firepower than a level7 reward gun running WO3. We used to be only one step away from getting closer to true balance, i.e., fixing the droid programs, now we're two steps away, i.e., fixing the ROTW fighters and fixing the droid programs.
Dont forget that these are still mostly reward ships. Its not like you can easily get out and get another, unless your willing to pay 5 million+. Granted these ships are rediculosly good, and should be taken down a notch, but the suggestions being posted here threaten to render these ships useless. They should still be good ships. But having one shouldnt mean "i win JTL".
In defence of starter ships, which are our only crafted ships is that they really arent that good. They're pretty weak, not that maunverable, thier only saving grace is a good amount of mass. These ships are cool, because they make using them as a master pilot viable, but only with pimped out equipment. I think this is what they where convieved for and thats the way they should be. However they have no business being used by novice pilots. They should be moved to tier 4 or master.
JanuHull wrote:
Isamu-alva wrote:
JediNg wrote:
Glad someone found the proverbial vicious cycle
Here's another.
Many people in deep space deliberately target JSF pilots because they hate it and want to see it nerfed because it's "too powerful".
They take down the poor noob in the JSF so often that he either quits over the constant griefing, or hones his pilots skills and his equipment so he's now a viable force in pvp and a skilled pilot, he doesn't switch ships because he wants this grefier to know who has beaten him at his own game.
He goes back up into space and kills the guy who's been griefing him all month, what's the guy who's been griefing him's response "wwaaahh, you only won because you're flyng a JSF"
The poor guy cant win.Message Edited by Isamu-alva on 08-16-2005 02:18 PM
Which is why I grief JSF pilots in an A-Wing.
Sorry but what does that have to do with anything I just said? other than you are confirming that you are a griefer, something that I thought was reserved for the jebay on the ground game, guess I'm sadly mistaken.
DeepFatFryer wrote:
Reading some of the replies in this thread makes me sad.
"Don't nerf the unbalanced ships because it benefits me!"
I too do enjoy the unbeatable feel of flying the Actis sometimes. But it simply isn't good for the game, and will only make it easier and less gratifying for all.
Please, think long-term. If people learn to use an array of balanced fighters, rather than just the Heavies/Bell-22/Actis/Vaksai/RGI and the occasional Heavy X in PvE, which are no challenge to put together parts-wise, they'll have more fun overall.
As apposed to "nerf them because I'm too proud/stubborn to use one myself"
FYI, I fly a mix of pre and post rotw ships equally, including (shock horror) a bog standard low mass a-wing that I use for taking out the ISD.
I'll fly the best ship that is suited for the job and if it's a b-22 or firespray or a b-wing then so what, I fly what I damn well please and no-one is going to convince me otherwise.
This hang-up that you have that only noobs fly the jsf and those that arent noobs fly the jsf exclusively is getting a bit old.
silverlady wrote:
Imaridril - Good points, and all valid...but you're missing one key ingredient.
I don't know what faction you fly for, but I'll use 2 similar ships for comparison. Before ROTW, you would be correct in saying that we were close to having balance...no argument there. The problem is WO3. Take a look at your Krayt, or B-wing...take the reactor drain from each of your weapons, including your missle(s), and divide each of them by .3 (point three). Add them together. Subtract your current weapon drains, then add this number...I think you will notice a *substantial* increase in energy requirements.
Now, I don't have the best gear, by far, but let me tell you how this would affect me, in one of my 2-gunned snub fighters. I am currently able to run EO4/WO3 on any of my twin gun ships. If this fix were to go live (and not be bugged...again), my energy needs would increase by about 13k, if I remember right. Without changing any gear, I could run EO3/WO3, and just have to be more precise with my shots. Not much effect, but that's with 2 guns, and a missle launcher, not 3, or 4. Imagine the hit on one of the heavy ships if this gets fixed.
Some numbers: If you had a 3 weapon ship, one missle launcher, all with drains of 500 (which no one does...), your energy needsto power those weaponswould increase from 2k to over 6600. Same ship with drains of 1k each goes from 4k to over 13300. Drains of 1500 go from 6000 to 20k...just to power the weapons, to say nothing of the engine, or anything else, for that matter.
Yes, I do think the heavier ships will feel the crunch of a WO3 fix a lot worse than any of the snub fighters, except for one. If WO3 is fixed, I think the standard X-wing be the one ship that feels it the most.
This is what I am getting at when I keep saying that JTL was not really balanced before ROTW, and the ROTW ships have just magnified it...and it almost sounds like they brought it to light in the first place. Mass alone is not enough to balance the shipswith the way things are currently set up.
A caveat: I am aware that having one of those nice, high gen reactors can/would nullify what I am trying to illustrate here, but it's not realistic to say that most pilots have one of these, hence, while they can be included, they cannot refute my argument on their own.
You're correct, except that a heavy fighter doesn't need to run WO3 to have the ability to one-shot players in PvP. A well equipped heavy fighter running WO3 right now most likely is doing surplus damage against most snub-fighters, excluding the ROTW ships. Look at it this way, an A-wing at most is only going to be able to take about 5000 damage to the front before his components start getting disabled. A heavy fighter with twin level 10 guns can easily do over twice that amount of damage in a one shot with WO3. If he's forced to drop to WO2, he'll still be doing enough to kill in one hit. As for the reactor, a decent equipped Krayt would be able to run EO4, WO2, and CO2 with a Mark IV crafted reactor. As for uber level 7 reactors, they're rare, but not super rare. I havefive orsix of them in storage right now, and I've probably sold half a dozen more since JTL came out.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that fixing thedroid programs and nerfing the ROTW ships will make everything perfectlybalanced, but it would be miles closer tobalance than we have right now. We also don't need perfect balance. As long as the balance between the various ships is closer than the difference in skill level between regular pilots, then things will work out fine.
One other thing to keep in mind is that its pretty rare to come across a heavy fighter that's actually equipped with PvP in mind. With light fighters, you can get by with about the same setup for PvE and PvP, however with a heavy fighter, such as say a Krayt, your PvE and PvP loadouts should be completely different. For PvE in a Krayt, I would equip three level 10 guns first,a level 8 reward shield next, and then use the rest of the mass for the other parts. For PvP, I'd switch to a mix of level 7 and level 9 crafted ion cannon with .25 refire, 2000 front/back armor,a larger capacitor, and a larger engine. Such a ship wouldhave far less firepower in PvE, but it would be much more lethal in PvE. The point I'm trying to make, is thatbefore everyone got JTL free with ROTW, there simply wasn't that much PvP in space, and the number of heavy fighter pilots who launched into space with PvP in mind was very low. If the ROTW fighters are nerfed and people actually start flying heavy fighters again, and if more of them startequipping them more with PvP in mind, since PvP has become more common, then we might just start seeing what heavy fighters are capable of.