Pikeman Archive
Thread: Defenses will not stack after combat passes, says TH
Winnebago
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:33 pm
#66
Thunderheart wrote:Its true - - no more Defense stacking after the combat rebalance is done.And FWIW, I didn't forget about the Pikeman. The Combat Balance should take care of most of your pain and the HAM changes will be coming soon (I dont know when yet. It involves some low level programming and some cross team cooperation. Since it touches so many other game systems, its a daunting item).From there, Im speaking with the Dev who made the cool Sword item about making a great schematic to drop for you guys, but it is too early to tell yet. The trick is that a brand new weapon means new art, new development, etc. I simply can't come to you and say "we're working on it", but thats the deal atm.We're focused on the Combat Balance, HAM first and that should really make Pikeman more fun. From there, Im reading your "10 questions" and going over the correspondent issues this evening to look at the high level view to see what we can do.
Hey TH!
Can you explain in verbose and explicit terms, what exactly is meant by no stacking? are you jsut referring to dodge/counterattack/block? Or all defensive bonuses, like melee defense, defense vs. blind,kd,dizzy, etc.?
I would like to know as I, like many other people, am enjoying having mastery in more than one combat class on one of my characters, I dont want to feel limited to the scope of one combat profession, the ability to mix and match skills is what makes SWG and its combat/class system so unique and so much fun.
ScitzoX
Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:07 pm
#67
What kind of answer is this....????
I mean come on...."defenses wont stack"
Which defenses..????
Block
dodge
counterattack
melee defense
ranged defense
def vs dizzy
def vs knockdown
def vs posture change....etc etc etc etc
U telling me we gonna get rifleman-melee defense and teras kasi-melee defense...i mean MELEE DEFENSE == MELEE DEFENSE.....stop ruining the game, put a cap on it that will fix it but this is just BS sorry...
WHICH ONE....
Im working on a template here....but if u gonna nerf it to hell i might as well surrender everything huh...?
Like i did with all my other templates that got NERFED TO HELL......
We need a straight answer for once....nobody can get any info out of this....
angristVong
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:53 am
#69
i have to agree with gabe on this one
It is armor that helps you against krayts. Take a person with as high of a melee defense as you want and stacked dodge/counter/block/whatever. Have them fight a krayt. Count misses. You won't see any. The "stacked" defensive abilities don't help against krayts. Mitigation does. Armor does. Toughness does. But none of these involve stacking.
combat is not a one shot problem - just like real problems in life there are many factors.
Armor is the biggest problem and the economics of armor.
only a wookiee can truely appreciate this. - say i lunge2 a guy and hit him 2 times while he is down - then another time as he is back up and running away.
that's four hit from a master heavy swordsman and the guy is back up - running around - spamming last ditch.
now if this game worked armored or not - if a master heavy swordsman got that close and hit you that many times you wouldnt be worth much.
armor is out of control - not defense stacking - you get people with 90 precent resists and only people with lots and lots of money can afford this - this is an economic problem which stims from the AT-ST abuse early in the game
ie:
krayt farming
price gouging
hoarding of precious resources
the armorsmiths set up shop and make millions a day.
so a small precent of players have amazing armor that can take any hit, any special and sometimes groups of people.
yah you can have 150 melee defense but you still get hit - i know because i need this defense to stay alive.
i think armor is the greater problem - they need to nerf the resists down so that players aren't using a fly swat on a tank - even though the fly swat is an armor piercing pike or hammer.
and nerfing defense stacking across the board is going to cause the devs more problems in the future, and cause the devs to go back and change more things.
they need to fix and tweak the current systems.
IE give defense to brawlers that need it. give the tank classes like fencer and TK more defense but not an ungodly amount, and make it so riflemen arent highpower brawler canons with perfect accuracy.
all elite brawlers should be tough and have good defense - that is what a brawler is.
i just hope the devs see it isnt a simple abuse of the skill system - but an overall problem with the economy, armor, the incorrect placement of power in the wrong profession and specials that are abused.
generic quick fixes never solve problems
Holbach
Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:33 am
#70
No more defense stacking, eh? It will be nice to see weaponsmith/fencer be on equal footing as a pistoleer/fencer. Great work Devs, you guys just keep coming up with great ideas.
Idiots.
GabrielsSword
Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:45 am
#71
mythronde wrote:
TH, not to forget for BH's, make sure the droids actually track the jedi pleaseThey don't now
I love this. A member of the development team finally gives us the Pikeman a little attention and everyone else comes to our forum to hijack the thread.
Bonton
Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:22 am
#72
Q-3PO wrote:
We havea pikeman profession?
Kidding, kidding, kidding, I am so kidding. Please don't hurt me TH.
ROFLMAO
Sketh
Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 am
#73
Thunderheart wrote:
No this is definately still a skill based game.
Our goal is to get that balanced out so that players don't get hammered if they dont min/max the skill defenses. Right now its hard to get involved with PvP because power games have learned how to game the system and get unfair advantages and force specific templates.
We want to make it so that all the various templates are important and useful, and not just a specific grouping. All template choices should be valid for this premise to remain intact...
And so the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw....
cwhooks
Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:27 am
#74
Thunderheart wrote:
No this is definately still a skill based game.
Our goal is to get that balanced out so that players don't get hammered if they dont min/max the skill defenses. Right now its hard to get involved with PvP because power games have learned how to game the system and get unfair advantages and force specific templates.
We want to make it so that all the various templates are important and useful, and not just a specific grouping. All template choices should be valid for this premise to remain intact...
The whole point of a skill based system is ti mix and match profession to min/max various aspects, such as defenses. Removing that is defeating the purpose of a skill based system and is effectively a class base system! Or in other words, in a skill base system you balance the skills themselves and let them stand on their own. In a class/professoin based system you balance the classes and let them stand on their own.
In all of your discussion of the change your perspective has always been the professions and that the professions need to be balanced against each other... So far this game hasn't really been a skill based system, but more of a hybrid with strong leanings towards classes. As you learn everything from the perspective of a class and finding skills that are common between professions isn't all that common and getting fewer all the time! The latest changes sound like the final death knell for the last vestiages of the skill based system though... Will there be any common skills between professions after this cahnge?
Baalthazar
Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:43 am
#75
Ok one thought and I may be wrong here..but TH said he is working on getting a new pike schematic in the game because there are no good ones? Now I may be wrong but isn't the schematic that drops off the nightsister elder for the nightsister lance used for pikeman? And isn't it an awesome weapon? As for the defense stacking..rather than taking away ALL stacking, why not allow the stacking to continue as long as the defenses branch from the same tree? Like ranged defenses will stack if you are holding a pistol and have pistoleer and rifleman trees...and the defenses from TK and fencer will stack..however TK and rifleman will not...basically if you have TK and rifleman..you get rifleman defenses holding a rifle and TK defenses holding nothing or a pair of VK's. Basically if you know how to dodge with a sword in your hand it would be about the same as with nothing..however it would be very odd if you were a swordsman and trying to dodge while firing a rifle..so they shouldn't mix.
antares_Kauri
Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:52 am
#76
The energy lance is a cool weapon, mostly show. It is not an awesome weapon. 80-280 @ 3.5 no armor piercing. The best thing about it is the electricity particle effect and the double disease, but that only does anything if you lose your fight.
antares
master pikeman
Elvandar01
Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:36 am
#77
um, you use crappy vibro units in your energy lance then. i made one that has 390 damage, 2.6 speed unsliced with like an 89 max damage vibro unit
Chrysahor
Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:40 am
#78
Q-3PO wrote:We have a pikeman profession?
I can't stop laughing, thanks for the joke.
What? It's not a joke?
Btw, good news TH.