Pikeman Archive

Thread: Defenses will not stack after combat passes, says TH

antares_Kauri
Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:41 am
#79

Fine. /bow. But I don't know how you got 390 with 89 max dmg units when I got 290 with 37 max dmg vibro units.
It still has no armor piercing.


antares
master pikeman



|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
|combatUpgrade::alpha :: JTL::beta :: RotW::beta :: ToOW::beta|
SOE Producer Dallas Dickinson says:
"I mean, what is a pikeman and why is it something in the game?"
ochad
Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:42 am
#80

Does this mean that a MAster BH/Carbineer x-x-4-x will not have the counter attack but just the skills?



_______________________________________________________________

Ochadd\Ochad
CORE Cadre of Republic Elite
PCgameGuru
Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:51 am
#81



Thunderheart wrote:
No this is definately still a skill based game.

Our goal is to get that balanced out so that players don't get hammered if they dont min/max the skill defenses. Right now its hard to get involved with PvP because power games have learned how to game the system and get unfair advantages and force specific templates.

We want to make it so that all the various templates are important and useful, and not just a specific grouping. All template choices should be valid for this premise to remain intact...





The answer to this is simple. Put all (or at least most) the good defense mods in the master boxes of the varying professions, this will keep the min-maxers from dabbling in the various trees simply to stack defenses. For instance, the techniques line of pistoleer. I think the level 4 box has a +20 or so defense versus knockdown. Decrease that to +5 and put the rest into the master box. You want good defenses from a profession? Fine, master it and you can have it.



That should fix most of these problems.





__________________________________________________________
Colonel Dominix Deathblow
<RAID> Chief Operations Director
Teras Kasi Master | Master Rifleman | Smuggler | Medic
Master of 11...and keeper of a silent holocron...

___________________________________________________________
nolan007
Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:17 am
#82








Thunderheart wrote:


No this is definately still a skill based game.


Our goal is to get that balanced out so that players don't get hammered if they dont min/max the skill defenses. Right now its hard to get involved with PvP because power games have learned how to game the system and get unfair advantages and force specific templates.


We want to make it so that all the various templates are important and useful, and not just a specific grouping. All template choices should be valid for this premise to remain intact...











Thunderheart:


How about considering the following?



  • Melee Defense

  • Ranged Defense

  • Block

  • Counterattack

  • Dodge

Would NOT stack.



However....



  • Defense vs. Knockdown

  • Defense vs. Posture Change

  • Defense vs. Dizzy

  • Defense vs. Blind,

  • Defense vs. etc.

...WOULD stack?


This would be WIN / WIN.


Allowing players to customize templates while not giving any overwhelming advantage to anyone in the game...?


If you all go with this "no defense will stack" policy -- I suspect you'll see Master Doctor / Mastersomething-elseand Combat Medic / Master something-elseas being the GCW PvP professions.






~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
Star Wars vs. Star Wars Galaxies
(Revised 07.07.05)

( Maybe one day these ideas will be considered or implemented. Bump it, please? )

BhyrdDanyd
Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:31 am
#83

I too do not like the idea of cookie-cutter characters. I am a dabbler (an exploiter as they would have me be known) to the max. I like the idea of having a little of everything, rather than having to be pigeon-holed into one class (and only being good if I'm a Master). Being Master in a crafting profession is the only thing that matters, now they are trying to do the same to combat professions.


Instead of simply not having defense bonuses stack, why not do something similar to what the pen-and-paper Star Wars game does. In that game when you multiclass you add your defense bonuses together and then subtract a certain amount for every class after the first.


If you were a Pistoleer and a Fencer and were getting dodge bonuses from each, you would add them together and then subtract a certain amount from that total. If you had a third class with the same type of bonus, you would subtract the specific amount twice after adding everything together.


What do you think?






---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bhyrd Danyd -
"If Star Wars were a rushing river, Star Wars: Galaxies would be a person desperately struggling against the current."

"Wanting SWG was far more pleasing a thing than having SWG."
antares_Kauri
Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:40 am
#84

One major concern is that some classes, like Pikeman, need to take skills (defenses) from other classes to be almost as effective as those classes. If we lose the ability to increase our skills that are lacking in our chosen elite, then we will be forever stuck with no hope of improvements. I can only hope that the combat passes allow for some way to use your skill points to enhance your chosen elite combat class in the manner of your choosing, without making min/max templates that are unstoppable by anyone.


antares
master pikeman



|Pikeman non-stop since July, 2003|
|combatUpgrade::alpha :: JTL::beta :: RotW::beta :: ToOW::beta|
SOE Producer Dallas Dickinson says:
"I mean, what is a pikeman and why is it something in the game?"
d0qtrX
Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:55 am
#85

TH, this is game is unique (for me) in that your toon doesn't actually get any stronger. If you want to remove stacking (which I am unsure how you could possibly do, anyway) at least make the mods MEAN something. Instead of a wimpt +5 make it +20, +40, +50. Make those skill mods have an actual IMPACT.
Dynastar
Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:13 am
#86

Seeing as how you would be able to attack two different pools with a variety of damage types, there is still a very large advantage to mastering two elite professions.


Some of you need to become unaccustomed to just spamming Stopping Shot/Eye Shot/Cripple Shot/etc, and actually pay attention to your target.



Ramsey Logan
By Federal Law, Riflemen do it with 16 inches or more!
Master Pikeman
Scorus
Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:16 am
#87

No, at the moment you really don't have a Pikeman profession. Will you by the time the game hits the 10 month mark? 12 month? SOE has solidified its reputation that it will tolerate unplayable professions 6 months after launch, will it push that to 12?



Scorus
heimidal
Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:19 am
#88

NO defenses will stack, they should just make every class equal with different pictures... i have been playing this since the week it came out, when gnorts would own, hell i remember when mabari was the best armor in the game, hehe, when chitin came out! comp was the mystery armor, i knew one guy in it after awhile. st armor was the best armor out! but, you cant set up a system and allow ppl to become accustomed and yank it out. I am a master brawler/master tkm, flame on, but i love tk. now my brawler stats wont stack with tk? much less that i am trying fencer/swordsman/pikeman just to see how i like the other proffessions. i am not a min maxer, but i want to be able to hold my own, and tk isnt as tough as everyone thinks, just that pikeman really is that bad... hehe. i have never said i was going to quit, but really, i think i have had it... i guess we can all hope that it doesnt become tk/master doc wars with crafters thrown in.
HanoftheSolos
Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:26 am
#89

Will Defensive mod stacking continue for another month? Please answer this question Thunderheart, your my only hope!



~ Koruption ~
Commander of the Empire's Spec. Ops.
- Colonel of the Imperial Army -
"Death comes to all."

Aerius
Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:35 am
#90

Combat Defenses SHOULD stack, but just not as much as they do now. Make the effectiveness of such stats based on a curve instead of a linear calculation that you do now. So someone with 200 defense compared to someone with 100 defense maybe will be 25% better, instead of 100% better. A master of 2 combat professions should be better than 1 combat prof + chef or something, just that they shouldn't be THAT much better.






Aerius - DS
DS Armory: Home of 39/67 Stun Armor and 20k 48% Stun PSGs / -500, -4123 Senia, Naboo
Now buying Premium rated Crystals/Pearls - contact me ingame

FragKeeper
Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:39 am
#91



Thunderheart wrote:


electricnomad wrote:


Thunderheart wrote:

Its true - - no more Defense stacking after the combat rebalance is done.


So SWG is no longer a skill-based game, but a class-based game?

Seriously, the whole idea that you could stack skills and mix and match your template was one of the defining features of SWG. Is that all gone now? Are we forever pigeonholed as one particular profession with profession-specific bonuses, and no mixing and matching? From my perspective, it seems like you just eliminated a big part of character customization. Even something like institutiong a soft cap for defenses/offenses and then only counting 50% of the stats above that soft cap would have been a more welcome change, but a wholesale hard cap on stacking is the death knell of a skill-based game.

If you stick with that, that's one less defining feature for SWG, and one less reason why SWG is different than any other game on the market.


No this is definately still a skill based game.

Our goal is to get that balanced out so that players don't get hammered if they dont min/max the skill defenses. Right now its hard to get involved with PvP because power games have learned how to game the system and get unfair advantages and force specific templates.

We want to make it so that all the various templates are important and useful, and not just a specific grouping. All template choices should be valid for this premise to remain intact...







This is ridiculous man!!! Your are destroying the skill point system in favor of a pure class system. What you posted makes no sense as a argument and maybe the devs just havent thought this far ahead.

Every player on the server has equal chance right now to build whatever template they want. If one players desired template is better than anothers in a special task then so be it, they both have the same oppotunities.

If you go and level everyone or as you call it "balanced out so that players don't get hammered if they dont min/max the skill defenses", then all your doing is making a cookie cutter game. Im not for one will not play swg as a class only game, there are already plenty of them out there. Do not destroy a part of the game me and about 25 of my friends (all paying accounts btw) love right now. Take it away and we will have to find a new game. Swg in a class only state lacks compensation with all the other broken items and bugs to compete with existing class based games.

I like SWG for what it is, a skill based game. If no longer mixing skills will benefit anyone then all we will have are servers full of TKM/Doctors . Please leave the system as is and just fix the broken professions like pikeman.

Your not supposed to "balance" one playersw lack of interest to go up a skill tree thuis making them less of a combatant than one who has gone up that tree. A tkm/artisan should lose a fight with a tkm/pikeman . The tkm/pikeman doesnt want to craft vehicles, he would rather fight!!!



O'Syrus

Intrepid Dark Jedi


Page 7 of 10