CUEmu - Thread Posts

SantosL

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:06 pm

StGabriel wrote:
Not to be picky at the details, but Scythes can and are mass produced by weaponsmiths. The limited use of the schematic that is looted for the scythe blade is negated by that fact.

Not true. Scythes require Geonosian Sword Cores. To "mass produce" these you need to be able to mass produce identical Geonosian Sword Cores. As these are in turn dependent on Geonosian Power Cubes, it is impossible to mass produce Scythes. At best you might get 3 out of one use (and that would require 9 identical Geonosian Power Cubes or 8 idential looted cores).

As to the rest of your reply, I agree that the Nightsister Energy Lance should be looked at and I agree that Pikemen need work (as I've said above).

In theory, yes, it isn't possible with groups of looted cubes. But there are cubes that let you make full runs, believe me. I have seen several weaponsmiths with at least 20 identical scythe blades on their vendors (same serial blades). It is possible

--
SantosL Halper
Master Doctor / Master BH

StGabriel

Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:44 pm

#41

I have seen several weaponsmiths with at least 20 identical scythe blades on their vendors (same serial blades). It is possible

If this is still true then it is an exploit (and people have gotten in trouble for using exactly this exploit in the past -- I'd thought/hoped it was fixed). The intention is that these limited use schematics be limited by loot items.

My weaponsmith has never gotten more than 2 scythes out of a single use of a schematic.

StGabe.

Message Edited by StGabriel on 04-17-2004 03:44 AM

--- The Clan McDonnell ---

Gaffyn McDonnell -- Master of Blades (master fencer/swordsman/brawler)
Flynn McDonnell -- Master Weapon Smith (+22 exp), Armorsmith (+25 exp)
Lorrinne McDonnell -- Nightsister (pike/doc)

Immoral

Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:52 pm

#42

StGabriel,are you playing Swordsman and Pikeman at all?! If so, than you are seriously throwing around the BS. Let's just use Savage Quenkers for an example. At MHS (using an average crafted/damage slicedPH)I could easily consistently deal out 4000+ damage toeverything in a "Circle O' Death" (as it's been called on swordsman forum many times) around me. As a Master Pikeman (using an average crafted/damage slicedLVA)I try the same tactic and I amlucky to hit for2000. Explain that.

Don't try to confuse these people here in the Pikeman forum. Anybody who has played both professions knows there is just no comparison on the DPS in practical application. You sir, should be ashamed of yourself. You are a good correspondent for Swordsman, but I am amazed at your behavior here in this forum. You should stay to your own forum and let these people be.

I'm not young enough to know everything...

ArkMindSpear

Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:12 pm

#43

Okay...put the claws away....

lets get constructive....

Look here....

We have to focus on what each proffesion SHOULD be....

As i see it pikeman and swordsman are not vieing(is that a word?) for the position as damage dealer.

I wouldn't even try and argue that doing the most damage wouldn't be nice, but that simply CAN'T be our role.

The reson being, that swordsman should OBVIOUSLY be the damage dealers.

They should outclass EVERYONE in damage output. Plain and simple.
The problem here is that TKAs(once again my scape goat) are out classing EVERYONE in damage. Swordsman could only come close if their minimum damage was much higher. But i do belive their defense should suffer. It should be their achelies( i am not a spellographer) heel.

I think that much is obviosus.
I personaly as a master swordsman, belive that swordsman should stay the same except for an increase in damage output. Accuracy could use a little work too. But it isn't terrible.
I think their maximum damage should be increased significantly and their minimum a whole crap load.

And unfortunatly TKAs shold be lowered. A crap load. Minimum damage at least. I think if TKAs damage was what it is now, but the +unarmed damage didn't effect minimum damage, and swordsman have a much higher min and max damage, then their role would be obvious and shine.

It would be like this-

TKA- 50-350 base damage on average but would hit speed caqp

Swordsman- 450-700 same speed as current

This i think would set Swordsman apart and make them very usefull. The problem with this is that people will stack and give them defenses anyway.....and to compinsate may have to loose something like...lower counter attack and/or toughness.

That is how i visualize swordsman.

The problem is pikeman....

what's left?

Most damage is taken...thats swordsman

fastest is taken...tahts tka and fencer

Value in PvP is taken....fencer

Out of battle value is taken....thats TKA

Defense is taken...tka and fencer

Versatility is taken...tka

so what's left?

Thats the problem, thats the solution we need to find.

The problem is....this is all very familiar. And It should be. we have done this many times.

The DEVs have asked us to themselves. and then ignored us.

False hope is all we have been fed.

Personaly. I think pikeman sould be the tank.

Two key reasons, one its one of the few defining things left, and two out of all the weapons involved in melee, i don't know how anyone wouldn't see the pike as the bets weapon of them for this job.

We have come up with ideas and speculations.

And if some one much less lazy than me would like to dig them up, you'll find a wealth of quality arguments, ideas, and really good suggestions.

That is where you should be looking for the answer to that question.

And Stgabriel.....

the reson he is saying the stuff taht he is that seems so negative, is that there has sudenly been alot of support for pikeman. And truth be told swordsman are next on the list of classes that need help. For many of the same reasons. And he is trying to make sure that his class does not get overlooked once more. And taht pikeman understand they arn't the only ones with problems, and as nice as it would be for us to get boosted up, it would then leave swordsman in last place. And we all know that that is not a fun place to be.

So work together, shoot out your ideas, and in five months when who ever is dumb enuff or masachistic enuff to still be around gets ignored again. We'll all still have eachother

and god knows tahts the only thing that makes this game worth playing.

Message Edited by ArkMindSpear on 04-17-2004 04:18 PM

My vision for TKAs....
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=68040

Dunklemaus

Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:21 pm

#44

StGabriel wrote:
No, what you've been saying all along is Pikeman isn't so bad it just needs "definition" and Swordsman is actually worse.

Yes, and I agree and I have been saying this as well.

Great, why dont you start a thread on the Swordsman forum instead of telling us to simmer down and suck it up, after all: you have it worse than us, right? Shouldnt you be actively lobbying on the Swordsman forum compiling data and support instead of coming to the Pikeman forum telling us that we dont have it that bad? You're a great advocate for your class, but frankly I would like to stick with Gunman as an advocate for ours.

Heres an idea: if you really want to help Gunman with his data, why dont you message him and correspond that way, Im sure he would be open to the help instead of you telling us over and over again that nothing about our class is that bad, just lacking in definition.

And I guess block is also so much better than counterattack, but you haven't gotten to that yet.

I have mentioned this at least twice in this thread as well as the fact that you guys don't get all the toughness mods in brawler that other professions get. I do indeed think that these are important things to note and I can tell you that in my time as Brawler and Swordsmen correspondent I have probably brought these issues up on the Correspondents forum at least half a dozen times apiece.

Thats nice. So since we have less toughness, and a defensive action that lets through 50% of the damage dealt, how is that not bad for us? But, of course, we all know Swordsman have it worse because we have a slightly higher dps on one move - and that balances any gaping holes in our defense. But you brought it up before, so that makes it a non-issue in class comparisons I guess.

I would dare to say you've made this a Pikeman vs. Swordsman thread now.

I never cared for a competition I simply wished to point out that certain comparisons made to other professions are not necessarily true. I think it's not correct to call PIkemen the least accurate profession. I think it's not correct to call Polearm Hit3 vastly inferior to the other Hit3's.

Yes, and in every instance tried to show that Swordsman have it worse off.

We just want parity.

Great, I'm all for that and I've said half a dozen times that I'm a Pikeman supporter through and through and that I agree that you have stuff to complain about.

No, this entire thread you've been saying we're not that bad justneeding "definition", and Swordsman have it worse.

We would like to have our end game weapon be a schematic from a thirty minute quest.

Be careful what you ask for. If nothing changes, in a few months there won't be very many scythes around.

As opposed to no Nightsister Energy Lances around period? We should be so lucky, I WISH WITH ALL MY MIGHT that we get a limited use schematic for our end game weapon - at least with that theres a chance that some Pikemen will actually own one. Right nowours isso incredibly rare as to be an oddity, and some servers probably don't have a single example of it, let alone one in common use. While I understand that Scythes in the indefinite future might become rarer and rarer, at least they are available. And in enough of a supply as to be on vendors, and used by Dancers. Once again: we should so lucky.

We don't want anyone nerfed.

Great, I'm not calling for a nerf on your profession. It's not about a competition. It's about pointing out where your guys arguments may not be strong. It's about trying to keep you guys honest and make sure that you don't go too far in claiming that you are the worst profession out there. Most professions try to do that at one point or another. I think you'll always get better results by trying to honestly appraise all of your claims and weed out the ones that might be a bit more extravagant. In this case I'm pointing out, among other things, that pushing for a change to Hit3 might not be the best possible route or at least, if you do so, you should note that the lower damage modifier IS balanced by a lower delay modifier. You can't mention just half of the equation.

Yep, you're not calling for a nerf on us, you're just saying were not that bad and its not such a big deal - while at the same time repeating over and over again that Swordsmanis the real class thats hurting.

Message Edited by StGabriel on 04-17-2004 03:13 PM

Swordsman need help also, I agree. Iam a Master Pikeman and a Master Swordsman and I can see some of the flaws in the class, but when it comes down to it at this point I am a Pikeman for flavor mostly now, because Swordsman works better for almost everything I do ingame.

A Maus

Self Appointed Game Warden of Dathomir

and Spokesman for Alpacas everywhere

v

ArkMindSpear

Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:33 pm

#45

don't tell him to go post in his own forum. Tahts really rude. And it also says that you don't want to give him a chance to talk.

He has something to say about pikeman, and/or it's relationship to other classes. Specificly swordsman. The classes have very much in common, and what he says is relevent.

He has enuff credibility here, for you to at least listen to what he has to say.

we arn't going to get anywhere by closing our eyes to the arguments.

You have to think realisticly, and that means we NEED outside opinions.

It would be too bias to make such accusations and changes withought a little perspective.

My vision for TKAs....
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=68040

asgoia

Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:36 pm

#46

/concur.

Icon Da'goon

Jereck

Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:08 pm

#47

Why should we listen anymore? Its become blatantly apparent that whatever we say is twisted and manipulated to suit swordsmen's cuase. You think by argueing with us he isn't compiling his own arguements for the devs? You think hes not going to twist and manipulate that same information when presenting it to them? Please. The simple fact of the matter is that we have two very common damage types. Kinetic and Electricity. Every major NPC i've seen has substantial resists to both, hell.. go to fort tusken, find yourself a 20k+ HAM witch doctor or observer and see what i mean... But its blast resist was remarkably lower than that of the 80% kinetic and 80% electricity it had. I haven't checked on this but isn't the PH an ap2 weapon? our LV is a whoping ap1 and a common dmg type. Our LVAs may have ap2 but kinetic dmg... and on top of that have terrible range mods and are slow as hell.

Thats not even mentioning our specials and defensive mods. When we block, which is rare, we stil ltake 1/2 dmg. No other class sports this type of defense. And i must say, its a relative boon to their class. Our hit3 has a posture change making it useless when we actually use our dizzy/kd combo. Also.. whens the last time you saw 80% blast comp armor? If you find a 80% blastcomp helmet i have a hella amount of credits for it, that way i might actually have a snowballs chance in hell of beating a swordsman.

Karras - Lowca
SWG - We know drama

ArkMindSpear

Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:11 pm

#48

what do we gain by arguing about who needs it more?

Lets argue about what to DO about it.

Please thats enuff.

I am all for unconstructivness.

But we have the people here who we need. And they feel like being involved.

lets do something with that before everyone forgets again.

My vision for TKAs....
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=68040

asgoia

Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:29 pm

#49

Look at least were taking a step in the right direction. Even if this guy does manipulate our **edit** for his own gain he loses our trust and he can go **edit** himself. Just as long as I get 1 fix out of the few I posted I would be happy I just want something!

Icon Da'goon

Gunman21

Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:46 pm

#50

This line:

A balanced profession would excel in one or more of these aspects, but lack in others. This creates a balance so no profession has everything, which would make that profession overpowered.

Is the focus of the analysis. A half-Thesis if you will. The purpose of the analysis wasn't to go in and say hey everyones better than us. It was to compare ourselves to the other professions and say hey, we don't excell in anything. If it proves only one thing, it's that we don't have the advantage in any of the 5 aspects that define a combat profession. Sure, we're better than some professions in some areas, but don't have any absolute advantages in any area.

Aidelon Kejaci
Legends Among Warriors
Former pikeman correspondent December 2003 - August 2005.

R.I.P. Pikeman!

asgoia

Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:49 pm

#51

I agree sir gunman. Would we have any advantages if we did any of the items from my post? I mean I was just throwing something around not to make us way better than every one, I was trying to take a baby step.

Icon Da'goon

Arhagellos

Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:53 pm

#52

I think StGabe needs to get a scythe and go solo NS including Elderswithout effort. Then he has to pick an LVA and go get the snot beaten out of him without daring go near the Elders of course. What the hell is all this, for a person that claims to be fighting our side you sure do your best to negate every arguement compiled by our Correspondent, I mean sure yes you're naturally going to take care of your own profession more but if you see some people trying to fix something thats broken beyond the point of breaking have the courtesy to consider some simple facts before you proceed to shift the point of discussion from the troubles of one profession to the other.

Do Swordsmen drain their ham bars in three specials?

Do Swordsmen get beaten into pulp by every FOTM TKA and his mother in three seconds?
Do Swordsmen have to kill a 400k HAM mob they can't even scratch at LEAST twice to get their special weapon?

Do Swordsmen attack a pool that's easy as hell to heal while at the same time having hoards of attacks with state hits that don't even work?

Do Swordsmen have damage types that are most defended against?

Now after all that, you get a new weapon that's not even sure what it does yet, it could do cold damage for all we know and still no Swordsman is going to be happy because its always more more more more and even more. You hit and bleed a mostlyunhealable pool, you spam areahit3 and wipe the floor with everything in seconds, you get blast damage against which only 10% of the creatures have any sort of decent defence against, you have decent toughness that actually makes some sense, you've gotten one new weapon and will get one more while you're clearly not in need of one and you have the audacity to come to the Pikemen forums and point out to US that we have uber NS lances that can wipe things out and so on and so forth? So you're fighting your own arguement by saying that the only way a Pikeman can do anything is by finding loots which drop like one good thing per two months while Swordsmen can use their bread and butter weapons, and believe me Scythes are bread and butter and non special as in mass produced, to do more damage than we've ever dreamed of.

What good is a poison lance against a Swordsman that hits my god damned mind with a 1k damage Powerhammer? And guess what since my armor is made to defend from kinetic it doesn't even block it. And what do I do in turn? I hit his leg with my kinetic or electricity weapon that's naturally blocked because 90% of composite suits are kinetic layered and they have electricity as special protection anyway. I picked Swords and took Master just to check it out, I emptied NS caves without thinking, I killed Elders without overstressing myself, I killed almost everything in PvE without breaking a serious sweat. So I drop it and wear my trusty LVA again and go in the NS cave, before knowing it I'm swamped, I don't do enough damage to take them down, I can't area KD them because it works one out of ten times at best. I can't Dizzy or Stun them because those don't work either, so I pray CoB and area hit hoping my buffs will keep me alive more.

All in all, I guess Pikemen work perfectly and as intended. We're everyone's scapegoat, the only thing that can't kill us is a Dancer and a Chef but most of those have some TKA skills anyway so duh.

Nothing to fix here, move along...

Nerelith Vel'Et'Aril
Master Pikeman
Sentinel of Horus

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