Pikeman Archive

one thing that needs to be fixed is armor, with 80% to everything but stun it hurts us, one thing i'd also note is the range of dmg on scythe are quite little compared, and blast dmg power hammer may not be good for pvp but is good for turret taking (no problem with that)

electrcity dmg (vl our secondary weapon) sucks
energy/kinetic are easily blocked LIKE everything but stun which needs adressed as well

yes swordsman needs some attention too. so does combat in general.

Serious_Goodness

Message Edited by Dunklemaus on 04-17-2004 01:28 AM

Message Edited by antares_Kauri on 04-17-2004 07:09 AM

I'm obviously not saying that. And when it comes to pitching things to the devs I don't see you being "blocked". For myself I've always been an unflagging supporter of Pikemen -- for accuracy issues, defense issues, energy lance issues, nightsister vibro unit issues, you name it. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to challenge certain arguments made by Pikemen if I'm not sure they work. It's just that, in my opinion, by the time the arguments reach the devs they should be sharp and polished. When dev attention swings your way you have a short time to make the best of it and you need to good ammo to spend at that time. I see challenging the stuff you guys are bringing to the devs as just part of my support.

Do you have an argument? You tell me. I think you do.

Message Edited by StGabriel on 04-17-2004 11:04 AM

As the mind damage is right nowSwords have a huge advantage to be able to target an un-dealable pool. This may change, but I still think its clear that swordsmen as they are now have the upper hand on pikemen.

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StGabriel wrote:
Look, I agree with you, Pikemen need a role and need to excel at something.

But...

According to a bunch of the data here I would think that Swordsmen are really the ones that need work. They have a minimal DPS advantage with the weapons and specials listed. They have higher toughness but they have lower melee/ranged defenses and lower status defenses. They have the same speed bonus, their most common weapon is the slowest, and suffers more from damage mitigation. Swordsmen also should probably get the medal for worst accuracy. My powerhammers come out at -30 ranged mods without concentrating on ranged mods and my LVA's come out at -26. On top of that Pikemen have a +20 advantage in terms of accuracy modifiers. That seems to me to say that an LVA has a +24 advantage over a power hammer (which translates to a 12% chance to hit which is not too shabby).

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You're right, Pikeman is just fine, Swordsman need help - you win.

/comfort Dunklemaus

It'll be ok, don't let the Swordsmen correspondant be mean to you...

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avallo wrote:
As the mind damage is right nowSwords have a huge advantage to be able to target an un-dealable pool. This may change, but I still think its clear that swordsmen as they are now have the upper hand on pikemen.

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Mythough too ...

SM have a handy blast damage weapon and a mind Hit .. this is where they are really better than Pike ...

It seems to me that Fencer and TKA is very balanced.

Im surprised to see how much better defenses Fencers got over TKA, and now im beginning to understand why fencer have become FOTM!

What needs to be done - IMO... Is that Heavy swordsman and pikeman needs more stuff!

Some of the things might seem like TKA is overall better than pikeman, but it should be noted that anyone in 80% resist compsite can easily kill a TKM, and don't start talking about the razor VK! Heat is about as useless as Kintic!

TKM does not have any dodge, counterattack or block - And as far as i understand Block does not work very well!

Pikemans damage should be enhanced ALLOT. Not just a bit but allot... The modifiers on the Pikeman weapons should get a major increase!

I don't that that Pikeman should be the tank! They should be slower than the others and have less acuracy thaan the others, but they should by far DEAL THE HIGHEST DAMAGE... As much as what rifleman can do to Pistoleers and carbineers IMO!(Just damage wise...)

But nice analyse! Gunman, maybe you could compare the diffrent brawler proffesions damage types?

-Jenky

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Jenky wrote:

What needs to be done - IMO... Is that Heavy swordsman and pikeman needs more stuff!

Pikemans damage should be enhanced ALLOT. Not just a bit but allot... The modifiers on the Pikeman weapons should get a major increase!

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No no, only swordsman needs more stuff. We're fine, we have no argument left. If we got anything more, we'd be unbalanced. More damage and we'd be too damaging, more speed, we'd be too fast, more defenses and we'd be powerful and defensive at the same time. We've gotten our accuracy fixes, we've got oursingle AP2 weapon, we've gotten our 1 new weapon and new damage type, we have our 1 almost unique area attack. We have the most reliable loots in the game. We don't have an argument. We just need to be content and help other classes get fixed. Just go pickup a mind dot lance and have fun playing the best class in the game.

The only thing I can say is that there is not one single reason (as to purpose or effectiveness) why anyone would choose to play pikeman other than they want to. Well, maybe the animations or look of the weapons. Want to be good in pve? Swordsman is far superior. Want to be good in pvp? Any other combat class is better. Want to be good at area attacks? Swordsman has more area attacks and they are more damaging. Want a better damage type? No stun or blasthere. Want to target the most useless pool? That's us! Want defenses? Fencer/TKA/Rifleman are far superior. Want offense? Wait! Our DPS for onespecial is .02 better than swordsman! Yes! That's it right there. That is our purpose in this game! There's the advantage we've been missing all along - awesome!

antares
master pikeman

Message Edited by antares_Kauri on 04-17-2004 11:13 AM

Message Edited by antares_Kauri on 04-17-2004 11:21 AM

No no, only swordsman needs more stuff. We're fine, we have no argument left. If we got anything more, we'd be unbalanced.

This is obviously not what I'm saying. I'm looking to have a constructive conversation here but if you insist on making it "me vs. you" or "pikemen vs. swordsmen" I'm not sure how that's going to happen.

Suppose the devs come to Gunman21 and say, "ok, we know yo guys need some help, what's on your plate?"

To this Gunman replies, "Well, you see our Hit3 attack isn't very good because it has a low damage modifier."

The devs reply, "Oh, and you don't care about the low delay modifier?"

"Nope."

"Ok, then, here you go. The new Polearm Hit3 is x5 damage modifier, x4.5 delay modifier. This is what you wanted, right? Glad we could solve your issue so easily."

Of course while you have a big damage modifier, you also have 8.88% lower DPS using Hit3 because you didn't factor in the delay modifier (and lost a Hit3 that had been competitive DPS-wise). This might work fine for some skilltaped Pikemen until the speed eqation is fixed but then it won't help anyone. That's why you need to figure out NOW what the real problems are and what are red herrings.

As for mind damage, there have been public indications that mind damage may well become healable once more as part of the HAM usage revamp. Not only do you have to make sure your arguments work in the current context, but you also have to account for what we know or believe is goin to happen in the revamp.

StGabe.

Message Edited by StGabriel on 04-17-2004 02:45 PM